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I have played a good chunk of the game, at least enough I felt satisfied, and would give it 3 out of 5 stars. My reasoning would be that it has a really creative plot but doesn't seem to do as much with it as the story described in the manual makes it sound possible, has a ton of hack-and-slash combat--which is fine, but I wouldn't mind it being more of an RPG--and otherwise has a lot of "eh" for everything that made me go, "neat".

Seeing famous historical characters and interacting with them was neat, spending hours trudging through that sewer is a prime example of something that wasn't horrible but also can't be called particularly fun (Hmm, I did a double-negative). Speech abilities have some use, but you really need to be good at your magic and/or combat to survive in this game as opposed to some others where you often can talk your way around situations if you pump a ton of points into speech. Oh, the graphics are nice but sometimes the isometric view seems unaware of where you are and suddenly your character will disappear behind a wall. Not cool. Combat itself is fine assuming you put the points into it so you don't die horribly.

Yes, this game has so many interesting ideas and a lot of promise, but only delivers on some of it. I got a good chunk of playtime out of it though, so I can't hate. Maybe 2.5 out of 5 stars would be a better score, but I wouldn't say it is average, it has glimmers of things that I've described above that bump it up to that 3 out of 5.

What does everyone else think? Agree with me? Think me horribly wrong?
IMHO, this game had tremendous potential but had the rug pulled out from under it by a failing company. Had they the resources, I'm sure that Interplay would have made this as spectacular as the Fallout game world. The ideas in this are great, but the execution is rough. I would consider this to be a late beta that was birthed too soon.
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davidbitterbaum: I have played a good chunk of the game, at least enough I felt satisfied, and would give it 3 out of 5 stars. My reasoning would be that it has a really creative plot but doesn't seem to do as much with it as the story described in the manual makes it sound possible, has a ton of hack-and-slash combat--which is fine, but I wouldn't mind it being more of an RPG--and otherwise has a lot of "eh" for everything that made me go, "neat".

Seeing famous historical characters and interacting with them was neat, spending hours trudging through that sewer is a prime example of something that wasn't horrible but also can't be called particularly fun (Hmm, I did a double-negative). Speech abilities have some use, but you really need to be good at your magic and/or combat to survive in this game as opposed to some others where you often can talk your way around situations if you pump a ton of points into speech. Oh, the graphics are nice but sometimes the isometric view seems unaware of where you are and suddenly your character will disappear behind a wall. Not cool. Combat itself is fine assuming you put the points into it so you don't die horribly.

Yes, this game has so many interesting ideas and a lot of promise, but only delivers on some of it. I got a good chunk of playtime out of it though, so I can't hate. Maybe 2.5 out of 5 stars would be a better score, but I wouldn't say it is average, it has glimmers of things that I've described above that bump it up to that 3 out of 5.

What does everyone else think? Agree with me? Think me horribly wrong?
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davidbitterbaum: I have played a good chunk of the game, at least enough I felt satisfied, and would give it 3 out of 5 stars. My reasoning would be that it has a really creative plot but doesn't seem to do as much with it as the story described in the manual makes it sound possible, has a ton of hack-and-slash combat--which is fine, but I wouldn't mind it being more of an RPG--and otherwise has a lot of "eh" for everything that made me go, "neat".

Seeing famous historical characters and interacting with them was neat, spending hours trudging through that sewer is a prime example of something that wasn't horrible but also can't be called particularly fun (Hmm, I did a double-negative). Speech abilities have some use, but you really need to be good at your magic and/or combat to survive in this game as opposed to some others where you often can talk your way around situations if you pump a ton of points into speech. Oh, the graphics are nice but sometimes the isometric view seems unaware of where you are and suddenly your character will disappear behind a wall. Not cool. Combat itself is fine assuming you put the points into it so you don't die horribly.

Yes, this game has so many interesting ideas and a lot of promise, but only delivers on some of it. I got a good chunk of playtime out of it though, so I can't hate. Maybe 2.5 out of 5 stars would be a better score, but I wouldn't say it is average, it has glimmers of things that I've described above that bump it up to that 3 out of 5.

What does everyone else think? Agree with me? Think me horribly wrong?
I played the game several times but i always dropped it about halfway through when it stopped being interesting and fun and all the boring combat took over so my speech was pretty much useless, sneaking as well since there is no sneak attack in the game, and the story pretty much disappears.
I'm actually playing it again right now and i happen to be in the boring part starting with leaving barcelona, but i'm going to try hard and finish it hopefully.
I found the game to be fantastic! But it is the only game of it's type that i have played, and also it has co-op play, so i was able to play the campaign with my wife which was absolutely fun!

Probably because in the past i found a lot of games do not have co-op play or prevent multilayer LAN at home with only 1 game copy, and i have always considered it totally idiotic and unpalatable to by two copies of a game just so my wife can play too, so i always refused those type of games point blank.
I finally got through the game and i must say the ending was quite a disappointment. Not to spoil anything, i can only say that it was clearly a case of rushed development, mariolike "sorry, butprincess is in another castle" hunt with lots of fighting and in the end i got basically just "And that's all folks!" message.
***SPOILERS ON ENDING***
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XYCat: I finally got through the game and i must say the ending was quite a disappointment. Not to spoil anything, i can only say that it was clearly a case of rushed development, mariolike "sorry, butprincess is in another castle" hunt with lots of fighting and in the end i got basically just "And that's all folks!" message.
Which ending did you have? There are 6 different ones ;) (Which also vary minorly depending on what happens during the final battle.) Which one you get depends on
[SPOILER]
your karma stat (good or evil), the question whether you fight or talk to the old man, and, if you fight, the question wheher you actually kill im or only drive him out.
(in the following text, the four endings I talk about are the four battle based endings)
[/SPOILER]
I must admit that four of the endings are quite generic and not so interesting, but in my eyes the other two ones are very, very good. Reading what you wrote, I assume that you probably got one of the first four ones. If that is true, you should perhaps try to get one of the other ones ;)

Edit: Is there any way to mark something as Spoiler in GOG, so that you can read it only after confirming? The typical [spoiler][/spoiler] command apparently doesn't work...
Post edited September 26, 2012 by XRayStar
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XRayStar: ***SPOILERS ON ENDING***
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XYCat: I finally got through the game and i must say the ending was quite a disappointment. Not to spoil anything, i can only say that it was clearly a case of rushed development, mariolike "sorry, butprincess is in another castle" hunt with lots of fighting and in the end i got basically just "And that's all folks!" message.
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XRayStar: Which ending did you have? There are 6 different ones ;) (Which also vary minorly depending on what happens during the final battle.) Which one you get depends on
[SPOILER]
your karma stat (good or evil), the question whether you fight or talk to the old man, and, if you fight, the question wheher you actually kill im or only drive him out.
(in the following text, the four endings I talk about are the four battle based endings)
[/SPOILER]
I must admit that four of the endings are quite generic and not so interesting, but in my eyes the other two ones are very, very good. Reading what you wrote, I assume that you probably got one of the first four ones. If that is true, you should perhaps try to get one of the other ones ;)

Edit: Is there any way to mark something as Spoiler in GOG, so that you can read it only after confirming? The typical [spoiler][/spoiler] command apparently doesn't work...
I tried talking to him, but there was no point in raising speech throughout the game so i had only 105 point in it and that wasn't enough for him although it got me through any speech checks before, therefore i had to fight him which was a bit weird since he couldn't touch me and he even healed me with fire. Finally i ended up with him going away, barcelona getting a new sponsor and nostradamus telling me "Th-th-th-that's all folks!".
The only "evil" thing i did throughout the game was freeing the pain daeva and maybe telling the big bad dragon daeva by the entrance to Alamut i was too badass for him to even try. I'm not sure whether killing the runaway rock titan was a bad thing because it was his duty to die as was said by his fellow titans.
Yes, but apparently you don't know all off the game's endings yet ;)
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XYCat: I tried talking to him, but there was no point in raising speech throughout the game so i had only 105 point in it and that wasn't enough for him although it got me through any speech checks before, therefore i had to fight him which was a bit weird since he couldn't touch me and he even healed me with fire. Finally i ended up with him going away, barcelona getting a new sponsor and nostradamus telling me "Th-th-th-that's all folks!".
Then you had the worst good ending and the least (or perhaps second-least) interesting ending ^^ This ending is meant to be bittersweet: The only thing your character actually achieved is a little breather for the forces of good by hunting the old man out of his fortress for a while. But, as the dialog shows you, he reutrns to power very quickly by decieving the inhabitants of Barcelona and making them follow him. There is much more possible.
Firstly, try not to hunt the old man away, but to actually kill him (Details here). This results in an ending which is a little better.
For talking you need 180 Diplomacy. That's not to difficult; if you already reached over 100 then you shuold be able to reach 180 if you replay from the end of England or so on and invest everything in Diplomacy. The diplomatic ending imho is very good.
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XYCat: The only "evil" thing i did throughout the game was freeing the pain daeva and maybe telling the big bad dragon daeva by the entrance to Alamut i was too badass for him to even try. I'm not sure whether killing the runaway rock titan was a bad thing because it was his duty to die as was said by his fellow titans.
Unfortunatly the karma system is very half-baked in LH. The first time I got an evil ending I understood nothing cause I had not realised that ma char had become evil :D
For getting evil it helps a lot if you keep Kublai Khan's Sword in your Inventory until to the end. Moreover you can aid Hrubjub and Bludjund in spying Barcelona. And the perhaps necessary and most important evil action is, of course, joinig Relican.
If one day you replay and do all these things you'll get the evil endings. Perhaps you will like them more.

PS: The Final Battle is very easy with Rangers, yes. It's more interesting for melee chars.
Post edited September 29, 2012 by XRayStar
is it true that most of the skills are useless? (Speach, sneak, etc...)

I'm pondering buying this game, it's a shame no one made an overhaul for this game...
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NightK: is it true that most of the skills are useless? (Speach, sneak, etc...) I'm pondering buying this game, it's a shame no one made an overhaul for this game...
They have their uses in the first part of the game but not so much later on. Your character has to be good at some form of fighting anyway, so speech over 100 will get you through any speech checks except for the last one, but still you'll be fighting a lot. Finding traps and secrets is useful all the time, although you can get a lot of thievery potions to help you with that.
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NightK: is it true that most of the skills are useless? (Speach, sneak, etc...) I'm pondering buying this game, it's a shame no one made an overhaul for this game...
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XYCat: They have their uses in the first part of the game but not so much later on. Your character has to be good at some form of fighting anyway, so speech over 100 will get you through any speech checks except for the last one, but still you'll be fighting a lot. Finding traps and secrets is useful all the time, although you can get a lot of thievery potions to help you with that.
Well it's ok then, not a deal breaker like I thought it would be...
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NightK: is it true that most of the skills are useless? (Speach, sneak, etc...)
I would absolutely not call them useless. Diplomacy can allow you to solve lots of situations without fighting (though unfortunately, as XYCat says, these possibilities become very rare in the last third of the game). Finding/disarming traps and lock picking is useful in the entire game, especially in the dungeons (though you certainly don't need to skill it to the limit and can also use potions, as XYCat also wrote). And about sneak: I never really built a character on that up to now, but actually sneak allows you to completely avoid fighting with enemies and still getting 75% of the killing experience by sneaking past them. Thus it might be possible to create a character based mainly or only on sneak and diplomacy, who sneaks around most of his enemies and solves any other situation diplomatically. I never tested that yet, but I plan to do so. However it ist true that in some situations fighting is inevitable, so you character should always also have acceptable fighting skills.
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NightK: I'm pondering buying this game, it's a shame no one made an overhaul for this game...
I totally agree. I would be so delighted if there was a remake of Lionheart.
Post edited October 15, 2012 by XRayStar
After trying it I must say: This game needs a remake!
Post edited November 01, 2012 by NightK
Full agreement!

Unfortunatley it probably still is very unlikely that they will make one... the game will become 10 years old next year and I can't remember ever having heard anything about plans to create a remake. Perhaps we should either convince, bribe or blackmail reflexive entertainment... or create a fan remake :D
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XRayStar: Full agreement!

Unfortunatley it probably still is very unlikely that they will make one... the game will become 10 years old next year and I can't remember ever having heard anything about plans to create a remake. Perhaps we should either convince, bribe or blackmail reflexive entertainment... or create a fan remake :D
I just love the setting and would love to see more of it.