You can't have been searching very thoroughly if you missed that large tower in the north-west corner.

If you look at the town map as the top being north, search in the northwest, just above and to the left of where the kid is standing when you first enter Kuldahar.

This game also makes it painfully easy to min/max without cheating. The only character in my party that doesn't have three 18's has two. And a 19 dex. It's a cheesy thing to do, but the OP is right... the games calibration is way too high. In a PnP game this DM would TPK at first level and would never be invited to DM again. Min/Maxing balances out the bad design pretty effectively.

Wouldn't call it bad design. It's different, and it's difficult, and that's not a bad thing. The game sets itself apart from Baldur's Gate, and in some ways does it very well, like in atmosphere and music. The combat is difficult, but still fun, and it tests your tactics. Though one can actually get far by carefully engaging just a few enemies at a time with ranged weapons.

Yep.

You just can't plow your party through area maps like in Baldur's Gate (II).
The adept Icewind Dale player has to use the area maps to their advantage. Most of the area maps have bottle-necks for ambushes, darkened areas for thieves to hide in, obstacles to block passages with certain spells, etc...

That may be true but Icewind Dale 1 and 2 have nothing that Baldurs Gate and Planescape Torment don't do better. Baldurs Gate is epic and has an awesome setup, you get to create a character and base the characters weapon style which combined with the classes make for a better and more replayable experience. You don't create a mute party. Icewind Dale couldn't even add this setup which would have made for a better game. The game is ridiculously hard even for a full party and to top it all off the story is very boring.

I really tried to get into the 1st game but every time is like grinding teeth.

I'm a huge fan of the IE games, and the BG series in particular, but I have to disagree with this statement. The Icewind Dale games are intended to be harder than BG and are set up for tactical combat, which they do very well. The encounters are extremely well designed and thought out (far better than almost all the encounters in the BG series, as far as I'm concerned).

While I love BG (and am actually currently engaged in yet another run through it), it's the Icewind Dale games - especially the first one - that I find I keep coming back to on a regular basis.

In the end, it's all opinion, but mine is that each game series has its strength and does something better than the others.

Although I'd agree Baldur's Gate overall is a better game - it doesn't get the position it has in the RPG world without reason - I do think there are some things Icewind Dale does better. The music and atmosphere for example, is simply stunning in IWD. You feel present in those settings, and when the music starts playing, it is wonderful. BG does this well too, but I actually think IWD tops it. It's almost like you want to go and close a window from the sound effects of wind blowing :D

In addition, the combat is totally different in IWD. That may not be to your liking, and that is fine, there are other games, but it is a strong point of the game. I'm not a hack n s lash kinda guy, so was surprised I liked it as much. Oddly enough, right now I'm thinking more about another run through IWD (or starting IWD2) than finishing the run through BG2. Why? Because the combat in BG2 is mostly trivial (outside of 'boss' battles and such), while in IWD you are constantly challenged. Also, the story is a big thing with BG2, and since I know it rather well know, it's not what makes me come back. The lack of a strong story focus in IWD can actually be a positive.

Maybe it's not your type of game though, it happens. If you need more NPC interaction for example, and find the combat boring, then BG or PST is much more fitting, or perhaps non-IE games. Hunble bundle has the Spiderweb games now for example, so you can pick up a pile of them for next to nothing if you wish. I've no idea how they compare with IWD or BG though.

The Baldur's Gate series, Planescape Torment and the Icewind Dale series all have at least one feature the other doesn't do and that's O.K....

Aside from the challenging combat, Icewind Dale has an incredibly flexible party creation feature that I really like. If one character gets knocked off, you can always create another one to replace the missing one... ...or you can resurrect the 'DEAD' character, if you want. ...or you remove characters out of your party, at will and play with just a few members in your party. It's up to the player. You can keep your characters fighting to the last man unlike Baldur's Gate (and II) where if your main character is killed, the game is over. You get the 'hand' cutscene. :)

I don't believe the story in Icewind Dale is boring. It is simply a conflict that has to be resolved. Gives the player a reason to round up a few characters in a venturing party and take out monsters with bows & arrows, bullets from slings, or bolts from a heavy crossbow... ...or cast Magic Missile into a troll while he's slipping & sliding in a Grease spell. Y'know?

:)


Can't comment on Planescape Torment yet because I haven't played hat game yet (but I will someday!).

I think these discussions about which is best of BG or IWD is a bit silly. They are both very good games, and they complement each other.
BG is more about story, premade NPCs and their banter and interjections, and smaller scale battles against smarter, deadlier and more varied opponents. IWD is about creating your own characters (themed parties, like LoTR parties, are fun to make and play), dungeon crawling and larger scale battles against the amassed monster legions of Icewind Dale.

I agree.

Sometimes, you just can't help but get drawn into those kinds of discussions because you want to make it clear to the other person that each game title has its merits. These classic games have been out so long that it almost doesn't even matter anymore. Both video games are proven successes. I enjoy them all!


:)

I dunno. I kinda have to throw my lot in with deathknight on this one.

The art is great and the infinity engine is an AWESOME way to experience the old 1st and 2nd edition AD&D rules, but other than that I'm hard pressed to come up with anything really remarkable or even particularly interesting about ID.

I love all things DnD, especially old school DnD (note the profile pic), but this is the third time I've tried to get through ID and I just can't seem to maintain any interest in it.

It's just boring.

ID isn't really even an RPG in my book. It's an action game with the sole saving grace that it's also an old school AD&D hack and slash. The characters are two dimensional and often even insipid. Because of the way parties are built the game loses the wonderful character BG's NPC party members injected into the experience. The story is completely linear and wholly uninspired. All the plot does is give you an excuse to go from place to place hacking stuff up. Nothing you do matters so there's really nothing to engage with.

The whole game is just an exercise in trudging from one combat to the next.

I'm sure I'll pick it up again and try to slog through the rest of it, but only if I absolutely positively can't get my DnD on any other way.

I don't agree that it's boring; I've just come out of the game after a 6-hour stint or something like that. However, I do see your points. There isn't really any roleplaying going on, and the game is very heavy on combat. If you don't like that, then I understand it can get boring. I usually don't like hack n slash either, so was surprised I liked IWD as much as I did. It's simply different from Baldur's Gate in that it has a different approach. BG is much more about the story and party and NPC interaction, while IWD has no party interaction, little NPC interaction, and a fairly (but not entirely) linear story. Its strong points are tactical party-oriented combat, and great music and atmosphere. The game isn't for everybody though.

I think the problem is not so much what I used to think it is. I used to think the reason I didnt like Icewind Dale was because its not like baldurs gate in that you create a party. But now I know that isnt true as Avernum Escape from the Pit was and still is one of my favorite games and lets you create a party. Its not so much the fact that its a create party rather than a create a character. However when you make a create a party game, unless it has a good story or good roleplaying/character possibilities, its gonna be boring if you dont.

In Baldurs Gate 1 EE and 2, you get proficiencies you can add that is different regarding class thereby making much more replayability. You have npcs which each have unique statistics that offer more replayability. You even have kits which offer the same as before.

In Avernum The Pit, while its a create a party, you have much much more class types many of which are very close to a d and d setup even though its not d and d.

Icewind Dale 1 has none of these things. You create a class and there are no character choices, your thief will level up and max out all 4 thieving statistics. In Bg 1 and Bg2 there are more statistics and you actually have builds to make.

Icewind Dale 1 doesnt have that. There are really no different builds for characters in game, there is no story compared to other games mentioned.

The biggest problem with games like Icewind Dale is that there has to be at least some redeeming qualities.

The only thing I would say you can do is if you dont mind a grind, install the IWD 1 NPC pack. Other than that, its like pulling teeth.

I found this game was very lackluster with regards to the other infinity engine games. Im surprised Black Isle was responsible for this. After Fallout 1 and 2, this kind of draws questions.