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Tarm: What?
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Cormoran: I gotta say it is an odd quote. You start with saying it will take consoles two generations to do what PCs can do right now, then follow that up with a statement that consoles are way ahead of PCs in that regard.
I'm saying console makers put more weight in the idea than PC and PC software makers and are working towards it much more than them.
The next console generation isn't quite there yet from what I've read about them but they aren't far from it. All this in one machine probably ready to go after a simple set up.

The PC equivalent would be a small medium range PC with all programs, extra things like a remote control and "settings" already done in one packet so you just would have to plug it in. To my knowledge there isn't one and I think that's strange. Hence my reasoning that the PC companies haven't realised the market or don't want to go up against the consoles in this.

Many people want simple and easy to use entertainment. PCs isn't that regarding this.
with all stuff in it - all spamware and free ware

will it have firewall? so no personal info is given out...
or just like motorola did with their android - reports all statistics back to them
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darkplanetar: with all stuff in it - all spamware and free ware

will it have firewall? so no personal info is given out...
or just like motorola did with their android - reports all statistics back to them
If you mean the new consoles that would probably be some of the drawbacks.
I'm not arguing for consoles generally since I think PCs is the more versatile platform but many will not see it that way.
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Fever_Discordia: I think the fact that it got to the point where a high spec gaming PC could actually outperform the aging current generation of consoles helped to so we might take a hit when the next gens launch, be we should be OK in the long run still
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psadler: What a strange comment. PCs have been laughing at newbie consoles for 10 years. They have always outperformed newbie consoles and they always will.

I think that console newbies are finally realising that consoles are ruining games and that a laptop is ten times better and does ten times more things ... and the games are cheaper. So why on earth would a grown man buy some newbie console?
They'll buy the consoles because it's easy and provide easy entertainment. Many families will do it because of the same reason. Consoles are great for kids.
Gamers want to game and a lot of them doesn't care if the games are grounbreaking, smart, innovative, say something meaningful, teach you something or whatever. They just want to relax in their sofa playing some mindless game without having to think too much or get engaged in any way.
Post edited August 19, 2013 by Tarm
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Cormoran: as a result getting Dark Souls isn't really an example of some PC resurgence.
Exactly. Especially since the Dark Souls port has some of the same issues most earlier Japanese PC ports had (since the early 2000's). I think Dark Souls just continues the tradition of the occasional mediocre PC port and doesn't point at any kind of development (although that doesn't change the fact that I enjoyed the PC port just as much as I would have enjoyed the console version - it just didn't use all of the system's potential). What I DID consider a good sign already years ago was when Capcom announced that their MT Framework was designed with good support for all major platforms including PC and many Capcom games like RE5, DMC4 and Lost Planet actually had really good PC versions. Sure, they were consolish in terms of gameplay but technologically it was a really good job. Especially RE5 looked and ran really good and was even perfectly playable with traditional PC controls.
Post edited August 19, 2013 by F4LL0UT
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wodmarach: Unless you live in the EU, the court case here finding that they must allow digital licence resale and the current one going through Germany's courts right now (directly targeting steam) should see them forced to allow them.
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HiPhish: That ruling was for software that was more expensive than your entire PC. There hasn't been a precedence case yet, so no one really knows what the applicable consequences for that ruling are. Time will tell.

Of course, if it gets passed it will open awhole new can of worms; ther won't b any 75% off sales anymore and the Industry will be looking for some new new way to excess control.
Steam revolves around the concept of purchases, its ToS talks about them and there are a lot of BUY buttons everywhere, but in practice it is more like a long-term rental service than anything else. If they feel that the sentence damages their business, couldn't it be easily avoided by replacing all the "buy" references with the word "rent"? I guess it could not be applied retroactively but it would let them to keep Steam as is, with its -75% promos and all. Also, from a marketing POV, it's not the same to buy games than to rent them, but considering how well positioned Steam is I really doubt it could affect them at all, the impact should be minimal. Resales couldn't exist if there aren't sales and rerenting hasn't the same legal consideration so, unless I'm missing some point which probably I do, the problem is over.
I'm not a lawyer, so the best thing I could do is just make uneducated guesses. I'd rather not. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.
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park_84: Also, from a marketing POV, it's not the same to buy games than to rent them, but considering how well positioned Steam is I really doubt it could affect them at all, the impact should be minimal.
No matter what happens in court and how much the media talk about all this stuff: the majority of Steam users are oblivious to the legal mumbo jumbo and the "renting" thing (also I think that "rent" isn't the right term either). Anyway, I presume that the moment Steam would make it that obvious to everyone that they don't get to *own* the stuff they pay for they would:
a) feel betrayed by Valve/Steam for not making things this clear before
b) show more interest in alternate services that still use the term "buy" despite being legally the same as Steam

I think the first one to replace "buy" or "purchase" with a term like "rent" will suffer most. I'd say that - should the need arise - Steam should rather make legal changes in the background which justify the term "buy" rather than sacrifice it for a more honest term just to make it fit the ToS.
It's probably in the XBOX360 and PS3, but Facebook, Twitter, and email integration in the next consoles would be huge. If the average Facebook user is able to purchase a movie, game, or app and immediately be able to post from the store about that purchase they will flock to these next gen consoles in droves. Make sure to incude a USB port/SD card reader up front and they will never will be able to keep these things stocked.

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F4LL0UT: the first one to replace "buy" or "purchase" with a term like "rent" will suffer most.
I think the new Xbox came very close to making a huge mistake. I really wish they would have gone through with all their devious/greedy plans. I'm sure they would have still been hard to keep in stock, but the youtube tirades from angry users would have been hilarious.
Post edited August 19, 2013 by jjsimp
"What Caused The Resurgence of PC Gaming?"

What ever caused other people to go to other paying platforms I wonder? I never left and was never tempted to do so.
Tbjs is an interesting thread and some of these things have been mentioned, but wanted to participate and put it in context as I see it.

1) Internet - high bandwidth internet is prerequisite.
2) ubiquity of PCs now largely due to #1. Many homes have more than 1, and all are connected via wireless broadband routers. Even my Dad knows how to use a PC now.
2a) low cost of PCs - capable machines cost less than a TV now.
3) digital downloads - this is huge. It makes it all so easy.
3a) low cost of digital downloads - there's real value
3b) lots of low cost older games that run perfectly fine on older lower end machines. (I still run XP and have more games to play than I could shake a stick at).
3c) increased exposure these online digitial download stores and the communities around them (like Steam/GOG) create.
4) on the Supply side - quality of gaming is pretty darn fun now too. Indies in particular are bringing things to the market that have me seeking them out.

I was almost completely out of gaming until 2 or 3 years ago (exception of a few games like Sim City 4, Civilization 4), and once I got tuned into the ease of buying games digitally a whole new world opened up. I joined Steam first and then GOG. I've turned into a fan of indie games via sites like the humble bundle. I wonder if some of the popularity of PC gaming is due to older gamers like myself coming back?

5) I'll add one more here. My guess is that smartphones/apps may be having a beneficial effect here as it's creating more avenues for small designers to make money in more places (bigger market of PC + tablet + smart phones).
Post edited August 19, 2013 by fartheststar