They did? I must've misremembered that game.

Yep they did :)

Hmmm. Should MGS count as stealth/sneaker FPS genre?


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KoF is a good series but it doesn't reach SF.

I vote Tekken franchise for 3D fighters (take that DoA and SC fans! XD

WoW is amazing in that it ruined MMOs for nearly a decade. EVERYTHING was a WoW clone (which is just an EverQuest clone) for so long. We've only recently started getting different MMOs again.

I didn't say GE was perfect. I mentioned it because it had (has?) the longest reign among console FPSs. (Can you remember all those "game of the millenium" polls around 2000? GE almost always came 1st from memory - depending on the gaming mag/website of course - Sometimes Z:OoT was no.1 and GE 2nd).

As for GEs controls - you can look up and down and you can strafe. Actually there is about 4 or so different control set ups from memory - find the one you like and use that.

As for changing guns in the middle of a firefight - don't. Find cover and change. It adds to the tension :)

If you wanted to diss GE, I could list out some faults often raised against it:
* lack of jump
* no bots in multi-player
* all those features that never made the final released game (actually I think just about all of Rares N64 games ended up like this - "Stop N Swop" anyone?) of which some of these are:
* All Bonds (you could play as any of the past Bond actors)
* Removal of unlockable level Citadel
* missing 24th cheat
* Removal of island part of the 1st dam mission (the island is still there but can't be accessed without a N64 cheat device and the walls etc. on it have no collision detection - you walk straight through them)

True that X-Wing / Tie-Fighter had the mechanics, but Freespace 2 single-handedly killed the single-player space sim genre stone dead, as it just couldn't really be bettered

And, with the ongoing work of the modding community, still a beautiful beautiful game.

Companies were jumping, and still are, apparently, on the 'oh, it has so many subscribers, we will surely get many too' bandwagon.

tony hawk's pro skater 3 for extreme sports with tricks and points and stuff. I love thps 2 way more than 3 but maybe it's just nostalgia or something because 3 added some nice extra combo features.

My understanding is that MGS is a 3rd person game with forced combat? Either way, IMHO, it doesn't touch Thief :p (but this is an opinion thread).

Spacesims are dead because nobody buys the Spacesims or cares about them, just like nobody bought Freespace 2. There have been some good X and Evochron games,as well as various mediocre ones, nobody knows about em, but still complain that no Spacesims exist. Not even the recent two well publicized Spacesim kickstarters acknowledged the existance of any spacesim after Freelancer.
I backed one of em and wouldnt be surprised if they end up really good, but sell very badly.

I stopped buying Space sims when they moved to the mouse and keyboard controls. I really enjoyed all the space sims that used a flight stick. Freelancer was one of the last I purchased.

Manic Miner for platforming although it is an old old game.

Hmm, the X and Evochron games work well or even better with flight sticks, so not really sure who stopped.

That's right. X2 or 3 was my last space sim I played. But they were few and far between. Never heard of Evochron. Ah, that's why it came out after I sold my flight stick.

I'd stack Go against Chess for this award, since it's about 1000 years older.

For more modern games, Master of Orion for the research / diplomacy / combat strategy genre.
Have to disagree.

City of Heroes released six months or so before WoW, and while it wasn't a wow killer by any stretch, it did very well in its early days. And it most certainly wasn't a "swords and sorcery" WoW clone.

And then there's EvE online.