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General discussion (archive)Kickstarter Regrets(108 posts)(108 posts)
(108 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 13, 2013
The only thing close to a disappointment was with Shadowrun Returns not being DRM-free for everyone. I requested a refund and was given one, so I was not disappointed at all. In fact, I was very impressed and if it does ever become DRM free, I won't hesitate to purchase it.

I would probably never back a tech-project because I know that the quality will be poorer than I would like it to be.

I agree with SimonG, that a lot of people are disappointed because they misunderstand what kickstarter is about. I think the disappointment people have expressed over the multiplayer element of Bana Saga is an excellent example of people being completely clueless.
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jamyskis: I think the point is more that the consistent message from backers has been that they regret backing it, not least because she was absurdly late in actually delivering the videos. Her reaction to any critics was to accuse them of "harassment" and "misogyny".
I call absolute bull shit.

There are no such comments from backers on the kickstarter page. I suspect you are confusing messages from people who didn't back her project with message from actual backers.
Post edited June 13, 2013 by htown1980
Posted June 13, 2013
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jamyskis: I think the point is more that the consistent message from backers has been that they regret backing it, not least because she was absurdly late in actually delivering the videos. Her reaction to any critics was to accuse them of "harassment" and "misogyny".
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htown1980: I call absolute bull shit.

There are no such comments from backers on the kickstarter page. I suspect you are confusing messages from people who didn't back her project with message from actual backers.
I agree, she's not doing any worse than other projects in terms of delivery, and she's delivering exactly what she promised. I might not agree with some of what she's saying, but it's no different in my eyes than not backing a game in a genre I'm not interested in. If anything I regret that I couldn't pledge $1 to follow her project (since I found out about it too late).

And I apologise for responding on this subject.
Posted June 13, 2013
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DProject: Here's what I've backed so far:
Project Eternity
Xenonauts
Dead State: The Zombie Survival RPG
Haunts: The Manse Macabre
Carmageddon: Reincarnation
Make Leisure Suit Larry come again!
Wasteland 2

What I've gotten so far:
- Xenonauts has gone to Steam Early Access, and they provided a code. However, the game's still missing content I consider crucial, so I haven't activated the code yet. The game development is going steadily forward so I don't mind waiting a little bit longer though.

- The developer of Haunts has said many months ago that the game will probably never see the light of day. The development faced a serious issue when they ran out of money, the main programmer took a hike, and because the platform they're developing on is apparently super-confusing and not even volunteering backers have been able to make any sense of the code, this one is completely busted and the guy in charge has apologized for this many times. No updates for I don't know, three, four months? Well, I only pledged $5 so not a big deal.

- Carmageddon's going steadily forward apparently (out of the projects I've backed, this one seems to be getting the largest amount of updates). I got a "free" code for Carmageddon 1 once it hit GOG shelves 'cause I pledged the "I'm AGOG" level amount of $25, so I guess that was the first concrete thing I've gotten from my pledges.

- Larry was supposed to be released last month, but they had to move the release date the last minute, so that should arrive by the end of this month. We will see.

The rest are still miles away from finishing, but they're super-interesting, especially Dead State and Wasteland 2, which are supposed to be released before the end of the year. I've got my doubts, but at least I'll be positively surprised if they do. I won't mind if they don't though, I'm sure both will be completed at some point since progress has been steady and assuring.

So, I guess the only KS I've pledged that has miserably failed, was Haunts. And since it only cost me five bucks, I don't really care it did. Of course, if the rest of the games I've pledged turn out to be utter shit, that'll be a different story. But as it is, everything looks pretty great.
I am sorry but you can't mix Survival Horror with RPG elements, grinding to level up takes away from the horror, imagine going to the same room over and over agian for the zombies to respawn so you can kill them and grind exp.

Stop mixing rpg elements in NON rpg games :P
Posted June 13, 2013
I didn't spend as much as you and tried to be selective with my backings. And up to now I only have positive experience. I backed Giana Sisters and it turned out to be a fun game (quite hard in the higher levels, but that's part of the 'old school' the devs were aiming for from the very start). Then I backed the new Fate Core Ruleset and it turned out nicely and the Dice Rings - and they are awesome! So all these projects delivered what they promised (within the standard deviation).

Some projects I backed which didn't deliver yet are Wasteland 2, Legends of Dawn and the 'Wish I was here' movie, but I'm quite optimistic about these three. One where I can't say yet how it will turn out is Unrest, but the concept was interesting enough to risk backing it. I hope it will turn out as interesting as it reads.
Posted June 13, 2013
I seriously have few regrets so far with what I've backed. Just a few examples;

Double Fine Adventure - while on overtime and over budget, the quality of what is being made right now (most of the game is somewhere between alpha and beta state) looks fantastic. The fact that Double Fine refuses to release a neutered product and are now using funds acquired outside of Kickstarter to finish the project tells me that they are very, very dedicated to this release.

Project Fedora - seems to be right on track (allowing for a couple months of release grace period). Few game-related updates have been a letdown, on the other hand digital backer rewards have been released steadily.

Pinball Arcade Tables - have been delivered as promised, roughly on time.

Larry Cums Again: - delayed, but looking great. Should be released this summer.

Grim Dawn - is now officially alpha, and I am officially salivating.

Wasteland 2 - looks pretty good. Working on finishing up an alpha release of the full game.

Defense Grid 2 - received the new DG campaign with a slight delay, but nothing to whine about.

Some devs have been too poor at communicating with their backers though, especially through the Kickstarter. With 15 game projects backed, I don't really have the time or coordination required to follow 15 different backer-only forums. They should use Kickstarter as often as possible to post updates.
Posted June 13, 2013
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Red_Avatar: Shadowrun Returns:
Despite getting almost 5 times the amount they were asking for, the devs basically said that:
- the game will be short
- no classes
- checkpoint saving
- no loot system
- no real inventory
- a fixed main character
As a veteran pen & paper Shadorun player, I would have been surprised and annoyed if they had gone the class-based route. Shadowrun was never a class-based game. You would often find that players would specialize in a few fields when designing their characters, but by keeping it open, you would also allow them to diversify when they wanted to. And this is something that I'm glad that they decided to keep in Shadowrun Returns. Also, it is probably harder to properly balance a game that is not class based, as you'll have a harder time predicting how powerful a player-character will be at any given point.
As for the no proper loot system, that is also kinda in line with the flow of the pen & paper RPG, the players would not have time to rummage through every corpse, they would usually be forced to go for what's important, and then get out (and possibly snag something obviously useful/valuable if they had the chance, thought that would generally not include the poor security guard's loose change)
Posted June 13, 2013
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DProject: Dead State: The Zombie Survival RPG
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Elmofongo: I am sorry but you can't mix Survival Horror with RPG elements, grinding to level up takes away from the horror, imagine going to the same room over and over agian for the zombies to respawn so you can kill them and grind exp.

Stop mixing rpg elements in NON rpg games :P
Zombies do not provide kXP in Dead State.
Posted June 13, 2013
No regrets so far. Then again, I haven't participated into any kickstarts either.

I was seriously considering backing Star Citizen (especially with Roberts' pep talk "Let's show the stupid bean counters it makes sense to make PC-games, and forgotten genres!"), but now I am getting more and more confused which it will be more, a MMO or a single-player game. I wouldn't want to pay (that much) for a game which would be primarily a social MMO.

I think the FAQ says there will be a single-player campaign, but somehow that game seems so grand in scale (including the MMO part) that I fear the single-player part will suffer.

And even though I have more confidence in Roberts than Derek Smart, just to make sure this doesn't become another Battlecruiser 3000AD. Somehow all this grand talk about Star Citizen reminds me of the BC3000AD hype, it was also supposed to be the be-all and end-all of space combat simulations.

So I guess I will be backing up the project _after_ the game is released. :)
Post edited June 13, 2013 by timppu
Posted June 13, 2013
I haven't yet backed anything either, mostly because I think the model is a little weak in protecting the backers. I do think its good that its an option to have though, some products are hard to push through the right channels otherwise.

I think publishers are given a bad rap in many (not all) cases though. When things go wrong it's easy to point a finger at someone else and say its their fault. Publishers have no interest in a product being bad, but sometimes I think they decide to cut their (possible) loses and release as is.
Posted June 13, 2013
I am still very optimistic about Kickstarter. First and foremost, it seems that kickstarter devs are VERY aware of DRM concerns of the consumers. It also appears, from those that I have backed, that they understand where the publisher really causes problems with game design and are actively working to make sure those issues don't creep into their game.

Part of my optimism may stem from being picky with who I back. Everyone I have backed is an ex-developer from a big-name gaming franchise.

Moebius + Mystery game X
Project Fedora
Broken Sword
Grim Dawn
Dreamfall Chapters
Asylum

None have delivered final products yet, so I'm still not out of the woods. But all have delivered on bonuses and all are very good about updating progress including screenshots, videos, blogs, etc.

My biggest gripe so far is that all of them are behind schedule. I'm ok with this as I'd rather the devs drive the release based on when the game is ready... however, in this case, its because none of them considered stretch goals. All of them are blaming the stretch goals for pushing back dev time, when they should have easily been able to adjust their launch date based on those. Tip: Set your original launch date based on your wildest dreams coming true with the KS campaign... if you don't meet all ten thousand stretch goals, no one will complain if you release early. ;)

I wouldn't back a game unless the devs have clearly shown their ability to fully launch and support a game. If they have no history in the industry to back them, then they will likely need working demos to let me try before I would back someone that doesn't have an official reputation on the line.

To stay on topic... my regret is that I wasn't able to support a few of the above at higher tiers. Perhaps the silver lining is that someone will launch a "Thiefy" game that I can REALLY back ;)
Posted June 13, 2013
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cdnred: I think publishers are given a bad rap in many (not all) cases though. When things go wrong it's easy to point a finger at someone else and say its their fault. Publishers have no interest in a product being bad, but sometimes I think they decide to cut their (possible) loses and release as is.
The problem isn't that publishers force games to be released early, it's that they're risk averse, and won't put money into many types of games in the first place. Once they do, they usually take control of the IP and often ask for changes, some of which may conflict with the developers' vision of the game.

Kickstarter is for games which have a niche market. Sometimes it's a pretty big niche market, and the projects come from established developers, and sometimes it's from small indies with an idea who hope to have a few dozens or hundreds of people support it so they can fulfill their dream and vision.
Posted June 13, 2013
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hucklebarry: My biggest gripe so far is that all of them are behind schedule. I'm ok with this as I'd rather the devs drive the release based on when the game is ready...
While I don't have a real gripe with this, I am worried about Jane Jensen's project, just because it was supposed to be a model where people subscribe each year and get all games in that year, and that model is obviously broken, since more than a year has passed since the Kickstarter ended and there's still no game to show for it.

That said, it's not a problem with the games or the potential of her continuing making them, it's just that the model looks broken. Then again, I didn't think much of it from the get go. I hope that she will have some success with Moebius and MGX and just continue to make games, without continuing that CSG model. That model might make sense if she ever gets to release a few quality games per year, but I have my doubts about this happening.
Posted June 13, 2013
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cdnred: I think publishers are given a bad rap in many (not all) cases though. When things go wrong it's easy to point a finger at someone else and say its their fault. Publishers have no interest in a product being bad, but sometimes I think they decide to cut their (possible) loses and release as is.
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ET3D: The problem isn't that publishers force games to be released early, it's that they're risk averse, and won't put money into many types of games in the first place. Once they do, they usually take control of the IP and often ask for changes, some of which may conflict with the developers' vision of the game.

Kickstarter is for games which have a niche market. Sometimes it's a pretty big niche market, and the projects come from established developers, and sometimes it's from small indies with an idea who hope to have a few dozens or hundreds of people support it so they can fulfill their dream and vision.
Which is exactly why I stated in my first paragraph that I think having Kickstarter as an option available is a good thing ;)
Some products wouldn't see the market otherwise. I do think that crowd funding will expand what areas publishers are willing to risk funding on, if the kickstarted projects are successful. In the second paragraph you quoted, I was just trying to point out that not everything is a publishers fault - sometimes yes they force changes that don't work, but I would bet proven developers don't have that happen too frequently.

In the end I expect both publishing and crowd funding to reach a balance, though I'm not quite sure were that balance will sit.
Posted June 13, 2013
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Elmofongo: I am sorry but you can't mix Survival Horror with RPG elements, grinding to level up takes away from the horror, imagine going to the same room over and over agian for the zombies to respawn so you can kill them and grind exp.

Stop mixing rpg elements in NON rpg games :P
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DProject: Zombies do not provide kXP in Dead State.
So how does character progression work?
Posted June 13, 2013
Let's see:

Double Fine Adventure: they know what they're doing and their most recent update was a great one, so no worries there.
Planetary Annihilation: Reached alpha status recently so they're still going strong, again no real worries atm.
Project Eternity: Obsidian are pretty good with updates and things seem to be moving along quite well.
Dreamfall Chapters: Not that many updates, but when they do come, they're always good! The biggest backed project on my list ($270 for a boxed copy).
Torment: Also doing pretty damn well and a capable team too so no worries yet again.
Divinity: Original Sin: Larian are from my country and they know how to make great games so I couldn't not back this and so far their updates are pretty good.

Non gaming:

The Veronica Mars Movie: Project with the most backers to date, 91585. Have been sending out daily updates this week announcing a new cast member every day as production on the movie starts next week. Another of my bigger backed projects. This one can't really fail anymore unless crazy stuff happens while shooting the movie. They also have Warner Brothers handling distribution of it so I'm confident it'll be awesome :D
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussion (archive)Kickstarter Regrets(108 posts)(108 posts)
(108 posts)