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Psyringe: What annoys me more is that there are now two multiplayer games in a row (Aerena and Interstellar Marines) which I bought on "release" (if you can call an early access version that), and which are thrown away in bundles mere weeks after. I'm not mad at the devs and I again understand why they are doing that, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
It's a symptom of the failure of the multiplayer game market. Unlike single-player titles, it is much harder to establish an MP title, because you need not only a good game, but also people playing it. An empty community will scare away potential new players. All of these developers believe that they've created the next great MP sensation, and 99% find out the hard way that this is not the case.

Inclusion in an indie bundle is essentially a reflex reaction to commercial failure. Few of them seem to actually plan for this failure, which is why you have the minority of angry early adopters paying full price for it just months or even weeks before it comes out. Another reflex action is a shift to F2P (AirMech, Akaneiro), but that is frought with entirely different risks.

The problem is, devs include these games in bundles on the mistaken assumption that people are actually going to PLAY these multiplayer games. I've just fired up Foreign Legion: Multi Massacre, which is in the current Indie Royale, and there isn't a single person online.

And speaking of Foreign Legion, there's a worrying trend in the indie market to dress up a game superficially as "single player" to lure in unsuspecting buyers. These "single-player" modes are often essentially shallow, short, unstructured bot matches against undeveloped AI and no real progression. Foreign Legion: Multi Massacre takes this trend one step further, dressing up the storefront text to hide the fact that it is a multiplayer-only game and then brazenly adding the "single-player" tag to it.

And when you have to lie to your customers to get anyone interested, you can tell things aren't going well.
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Psyringe: That's the "required space" for installation as given by Steam. The actual download is smaller (7 or 8 GB if I remember correctly). As Gyrocoptor said, you're effectively downloading the same Unreal engine 23 times since each of 23 episodes has its separate executable.
No, the directory itself is 11GB. The repeated content for each episode is around 30MB, the episode-specific assets weigh in at between 300MB-500MB.

Stripping out the repeated Unreal engine files would probably save a gigabyte of space at most.

The Steam version is DRM-free, so I'm just creating a SFX 7zip file of the directory. Be curious to see how much it compresses it down to if there is so much repetition.
Post edited February 07, 2014 by jamyskis
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Psyringe: What annoys me more is that there are now two multiplayer games in a row (Aerena and Interstellar Marines) which I bought on "release" (if you can call an early access version that), and which are thrown away in bundles mere weeks after. I'm not mad at the devs and I again understand why they are doing that, but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
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jamyskis: It's a symptom of the failure of the multiplayer game market. Unlike single-player titles, it is much harder to establish an MP title, because you need not only a good game, but also people playing it. An empty community will scare away potential new players. All of these developers believe that they've created the next great MP sensation, and 99% find out the hard way that this is not the case.

Inclusion in an indie bundle is essentially a reflex reaction to commercial failure. Few of them seem to actually plan for this failure, which is why you have the minority of angry early adopters paying full price for it just months or even weeks before it comes out. Another reflex action is a shift to F2P (AirMech, Akaneiro), but that is frought with entirely different risks.

The problem is, devs include these games in bundles on the mistaken assumption that people are actually going to PLAY these multiplayer games. I've just fired up Foreign Legion: Multi Massacre, which is in the current Indie Royale, and there isn't a single person online.

And speaking of Foreign Legion, there's a worrying trend in the indie market to dress up a game superficially as "single player" to lure in unsuspecting buyers. These "single-player" modes are often essentially shallow, short, unstructured bot matches against undeveloped AI and no real progression. Foreign Legion: Multi Massacre takes this trend one step further, dressing up the storefront text to hide the fact that it is a multiplayer-only game and then brazenly adding the "single-player" tag to it.

And when you have to lie to your customers to get anyone interested, you can tell things aren't going well.
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Psyringe: That's the "required space" for installation as given by Steam. The actual download is smaller (7 or 8 GB if I remember correctly). As Gyrocoptor said, you're effectively downloading the same Unreal engine 23 times since each of 23 episodes has its separate executable.
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jamyskis: No, the directory itself is 11GB. The repeated content for each episode is around 30MB, the episode-specific assets weigh in at between 300MB-500MB.
Booster Trooper is another good example of this, it was in the recent Flying Bundle. I kind of wanted to try it out, since people say it's similar to Soldat which I loved.. but no one plays it. I'm glad I got it free from a friend, but this trend is tiring. Inclusion of dead multiplayer only games doesn't help bundle sales..
Post edited February 07, 2014 by spoderman
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jamyskis: It's a symptom of the failure of the multiplayer game market. Unlike single-player titles, it is much harder to establish an MP title, because you need not only a good game, but also people playing it. An empty community will scare away potential new players.
Yep. And whereas a single player game can always be "revived" (as GOG proves), it is almost impossible for a multiplayer only game to reach the critical mass of players again. Once they are dead, they usually stay dead. And since many of them never reach critical mass in the first place, they are effectively ... stillborn.

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jamyskis: No, the directory itself is 11GB. The repeated content for each episode is around 30MB, the episode-specific assets weigh in at between 300MB-500MB.

Stripping out the repeated Unreal engine files would probably save a gigabyte of space at most.
I just checked, and you're correct. Thanks for putting that right.
Post edited February 07, 2014 by Psyringe
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AFnord: I don't quite remember where I got KGB from, other than it being a bundle.
Bundlestars. ;)
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jamyskis: It's a symptom of the failure of the multiplayer game market. Unlike single-player titles, it is much harder to establish an MP title, because you need not only a good game, but also people playing it. An empty community will scare away potential new players.
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Psyringe: Yep. And whereas a single player game can always be "revived" (as GOG proves), it is almost impossible for a multiplayer only game to reach the critical mass of players again. Once they are dead, they usually stay dead. And since many of them never reach critical mass in the first place, they are effectively ... stillborn.
Wasn't it Icarus Online the one where the dev kickstarted the first game, then went ahead and did it again a 2nd time for a follow up? (both multiplayer i believe?)

On topic, anyone checked if any of the 'steam only' can be run without steam? (effectively being drm free anyway)
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Momo1991:
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AFnord: There is actually one repeat (2 if you count bonus games). IL-2 has been in a bundle stars bundle, and I don't quite remember where I got KGB from, other than it being a bundle.

That being said, I won't argue with you in regards to this being a good bundle.
1953 KGB was also in a Bundlestars bundle - apparently I did not do my research ;-) Thanks for the info!
New bonus @ 20000 - Panda P.I. - The Stars Await EP
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Psyringe: I just checked, and you're correct. Thanks for putting that right.
Not sure if you read my addendum up there, but just as a FYI: Grimm is otherwise DRM-free and compresses down to just over 2GB with 7Zip on Ultra :)

So you might be right after all - a lot of repetition in the individual episodes
Post edited February 07, 2014 by jamyskis
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Stooner: 3 boni in a day is a good start, right?
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Momo1991: Well it's a very good bundle - especially for those of us that love a good adventure game ;-) Plus it's got a pretty excellent range of games for everyone and zero repeats of bundled games.

Personally I am thrilled with 1953, Grimm, Infected and even Redshirt looked sort of fascinating...
Yep. This is a good bundle, and I can finally take IL-2 Sturmovik from my wishlist.

Also, next bonus is some kind of panda songs... ;p
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Momo1991:
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Stooner: Also, next bonus is some kind of panda songs... ;p
I had no idea that panda's sang... well you learn something new every day! ;-p
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Stooner: *snip*
Also, next bonus is some kind of panda songs... ;p
More weird indie music... Oh dear! :D
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AFnord: I don't quite remember where I got KGB from, other than it being a bundle.
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triock: Bundlestars. ;)
Thanks. It's getting quite harder and harder to keep track of where all my games come from ;)
Why, when I play Grimm, do I get reminded of Bad Day LA, especially with the graphical style, glitchiness and bizarre controls?
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Impaler26: More weird indie music... Oh dear! :D
I rather take more weird indie music than more Steam-only bonus games... ;-)

But seriously, the music bonuses on Groupees are very good most of the time. Found some really interesting bands and artists just because of their bundles.
Post edited February 07, 2014 by PaterAlf
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jamyskis: Why, when I play Grimm, do I get reminded of Bad Day LA, especially with the graphical style, glitchiness and bizarre controls?
This is the "legacy" :D