It seems that discussing this with you any further with you is just wasted time, so I'll stop right now. I don't really care how you take it.


I referred to the discussion on the PGO role claim where most of the players considered possibilities and approaches.



I don't need to show you anything, really, but since I'm nice like that I'll list a couple of posts.

#422 + #439
#490
I don't really like you putting words in my mouth, either. I said notes, not evidence.

It seems you expect me to convince you of your own guilt in some way, which is nonsensical. If I arrive at the point where I believe you are scum you will be the last person that I need to persuade.



That adds up to 2. Vitek and trentonlf. If you take a look at the post again, you'll see it's a response to Vitek's questions and comments and it's directed towards him.

Good luck with your application. If I may be so bold as to ask, what field are you applying for?
Criminology, perhaps?

I am looking forward to your readings. Most of your day #1 posts made sense to me. Don't delay too much, though. Your day #2 contributions are not up to par.

Just before adaliabooks' lynch, you made a guess about him (post #554), knowing that soon thereafter the truth will be revealed. That took guts. You were ultimately proven wrong, but you were willing to go on a limb and risk being wrong, which I respect.

Awaiting what shall follow.

My girlfriend playing in Finland managed to get hindu heir today. I am looking forward to hindu Finland. :-)
(Also I meant deposed, not disposed)

I guess you did. It wasn't the strongest statement ever but you mentioned her.

"As for Sage, I have seen in both game #22 and in game #23 that her analysis is solid. She often seems to talk herself out of the correct action though."

Still, the way you quoted it and left out actual reason why he suspects you and only commented how you like Sage's play doesn't bode too well. It seems like only purpose of that quoting was to state how much you admire some other player's play and made trenton's reasoning look worse by painting like he only suspects you for liking Sage's play. It was relevant a lot, IMO.

I suppose I have indeed meant 23. >_>

Ahh, I see. I omitted parts on trentonlf's quote because that was the only portion I was planning to respond to. I didn't think talking about my actions in a previous game needed to be discussed in this game. If you think discussing my possible meta here, and whether the way I word things is has more to do with my possible alignment than it just being the way I talk, then I'm game. I just think it is a monumental waste of time.

Oh, OK.
So it worries you that Rob wasn't discussing adalia's claim, do I get it right?

So once again. I want you to show me when you continued with your suspicion of trenton on DAY 2, because it looked like you mostly dropped him. I am well aware you suspected him on DAY 1, I mentioned that myself you don't need to show that. But suddenly on DAY 2, you seemed quite disinterested by him.
The same way I was asking if you ever mentioned me on DAY 1 because, unless I am mistaken, you said that I was one of your suspects back then.

No, I expect you to present evidence/reasoning when you suspect someone. Is it that much to ask? How else do you want to persuade others to follow you and allow the other person to defend itself?

Thanks! My main focus is genetics and neuroscience, but if I don't get to an university specialized in that field, I'll just go with something else on my list. UC Berkeley is one of the best medical and science research schools in US. Hopefully I'll get in.
However, I will certainly do something related to science and mathematics even if I don't go there.

Will get to re-reading the posts later tonight after I'm done with a project. Will post around midnight here.

One what?

Depends what exactly you mean by bussed.

If by bussed you mean at least one scum was on his wagon, then I'd be surprised if that weren't case, regardless of Robbeasy. In other words, I tend to believe there is at least one scum on the adaliabooks wagon, given the long time between vote #3 and vote #7.

If by bussed you mean that a scum intentionally initiated the wagon, then the only options besides Robbeasy are you and me. I voted #2 and you voted #3 shortly thereafter, so that while Robbeasy created the wagon, we set it in motion. Even if trentonlf (vote #4) flips scum, I wouldn't consider him to have initiated the wagon. Since you're hinting at suspecting someone, I assume you're suspecting me, and not you. I know I didn't bus adaliabooks. At the moment I don't think you did either, but I'm understandably less sure about it than I am about myself.

I haven't started persuading anyone of anything just yet, have I? I haven't taken any steps in your direction other than sharing you are on my suspect list. Why do you feel the need to defend yourself so soon?


OK, now you are really starting to annoy me.

Day 2 started with trentonlf sharing his night episode. I believe I invested a fair amount of time in questioning him and looking at different scenarios, because I didn't trust him on D1 and I don't trust him now.

I don't trust you, either. You started pushing me right after I mentioned my suspicions of you and flub's list which makes suspect you even more. You are demanding answers and evidence from me, but as I said earlier I don't need to persuade you of anything. At most I'll need to persuade others of your guilt if I decide this is the way to go.

You ask a lot, but don't give anything back. Attack is the best defense? Remind me where were you where adaliabooks' wagon was building up.


It's past 4AM here and I don't plan to waste any more time with this dialogue after this post until evidence of your Town alignment are present and your opinion starts to matter to me.

No worries. Thanks for answering.

Cool! I studied medicine and worked for 10 years in medical research (infectious diseases and vaccines).
Good luck!

Who is it you see as making arguments even more aimless and nonsensical than adaliabooks did on day 1? You did also jump on adalibooks on day one, but I have not seen you really do the same here on day 2. It's an odd question to ask unless you were just wanting Hijack to name someone, and the question would still be an odd way to ask. This is the second time I've asked you this since you posted the question too.

Really? You're going to go after the person who voted Adalia early, then once back on after further slips didn't budge once. And - you're going to try and make it look like some magical one line command i managed to get Adaliabooks to understand and take note of. Okkaaaay....

I'll tell you why i put that line. I know my name (Robbeasy) is a spaceship. Vitek stated he was a spaceship. Adalia immediately replied with 'I'm a train'. It struck me as odd and I wanted to know if Adalia somehow WASN'T a spaceship - this would tell me he was different flavour, therefore different , therefore scum.
The reason I said 'Can you see why I'm doing this ?' (And please, linguistics?? The 'Doing' referred to the vote, not the question!). Anyway, the reason I asked why was because I was trying to get Adalia to expand on what Vitek had put, without revealing that I was a spaceship. As simple as that.

My voting strategy - a classic. 'See what will stick, and what town will buy'. Scum points right there. It was DAY1!! ANY theory is bound to be flimsy! And in Day 2 I believe I am at least trying to use what few FACTS we have - ie Adalias posts, and bandwagon analysis. ANYONE can say what you said - we all have limited knowledge, so its easy to say -'bah, hes just slinging mud around'..

I'll say it again - the vote is the only weapon we have . It applies pressure, it induces slips, and makes Mafia uncomfortable. As prime example, I present Adaliabooks - crumbled under pressure , once a few votes went on and was questioned closely.

Trentonolf vote - why not? He was the only one to get on then off the wagon, and end up not voting for Adalia when the hammer came down. Scum points for him, and more than enough reason to vote. A bus at vote 4 is very reasonable - he could easily jump off once closer to hammer - and my! Thats exactly what he did!!

The 'large' group of people it exonerates...i NEVER said that. I said 'at least one mafia' was highly likely to be in that group. Logically, this would mean that another member would be in the other group!! I was merely saying I would be concentrating on that group for the moment, as it was highly likely one of them was a Mafia member - in my view.

So all in all mrkgnao - I apologise for scum hunting, i apologise for analysis of the only facts we have available, I apologise for voting and sticking to the one Mafia member we have already managed to lynch.

And yeah, that last line was sarcasm...;)

This presumes that books could do something about Robbeasy's vote. While he may not have been experienced enough to fall in line on cue, he may have done so out of sheer inability to do anything else. What was he going to say? "Yes I'm scum, and just because Robbeasy voted for me, I'm going to out him and my other scum partner," does not seem like something any mafioso would do. Remember, when the mafia team wins, all of them win (even those that have died). So it would be beneficial to books in the long run to be quiet about a bussing by his mafia buddies, even though he would end up dead because of it.

That being said, even though I am mildly suspicious of Rob at the moment, I don't feel he's done enough to warrant me voting for him. There is definitely the possibility that books was not bussed by his mafia teammates, although I find it unlikely that at least one of his fellow mafiosi wasn't voting for him.

As an aside to this, I think Rob's position as one of the first (if not the first) voters is actually a good place for a mafioso to place themselves. When voting is done, who is the person that is usually viewed with suspicion? In my experience, it's the hammer voter (in this case me). What better place to occupy then, for a mafioso, than as one of the very first voters, and with a valid reason for voting, none the less.

This is, of course, all to be taken only as conjecture, as I do find some of mrkgnao's arguments against Rob problematic. Particularly gnao's latching onto the sentence, "Do you see why I'm doing this?" That does, given, sound suspect, and could be a mafioso member semi-apologising to another mafioso for voting them. Then again, it could be little more than Rob merely commenting that his vote was made for an obvious reason.

Other than the current Robbeasy related talk, I don't really have much to add. I've skimmed through books' day one posts, and have found nothing in his interactions with other players to be overtly sinister. I should look over the formation of the wagon on him, though. Perhaps that would yield more.

HijacK: Good luck with your university applications.

Well, it seems that "linguistics" is just as good a "weapon" as "voting" to "apply pressure and make Mafia uncomfortable". Thank you for writing what is by far your longest post to date on an argument that you clearly regard as laughable. I am honoured.

My feelings about other people, besides Robbeasy.

Neutral, tend to mafia:
- Vitek: His insistence on us talking only about things that interest him is becoming progressively disturbing. Initially, I tried to counter it with jokes, but now I no longer see it as funny. To my mind the power of the town lies in discussing most things in the open (except things that would give the mafia undue information). The way people reveal themselves is by getting them to talk, not by making them shut up.
- trentonlf: Primarily for revealing his role and his ship model and for as yet offering no convincing reason why he did it. On the other hand, the immediacy with which he shared his night episode gives him brownie points from me. Truth be told, there's something fishy about his posts that made me think for a while that he may not be scum, but rather have his own independent agenda. Mixed feelings at the moment.

Neutral:
- CSPVG, Krypsyn, Sage: Did not post enough for me to make an opinion about them. Did I mention that I don't like lurkers?

Neutral, tend to town:
- DarkoD13: Seems keen to attempt to push most people's buttons (including mine) in a way that feels genuine to me.
- dedoporno: I'm a bit wary because of the similiraty between our views (mentioned by someone before), but otherwise shows all the signs of honest investigation. Despite having lost his temper, I believe he held himself well against Vitek.
- yogsloth: Except for the speed with which he voted for adalia immediately after I did (plus the comment that accompanied the vote), all his moves feel pro-town. Ironically, I don't find adaliabooks' obsession with him to be vindicating.
- HijacK: I ended day #1 with a strong pro-town feeling from him. A bit diluted by his limited posting on day #2.