Fuck I had a post typed out with responses to earlier stuff and now shit hit the fan.

Well I'll try to see if I get space for it after some commenting on the newest info.

First of: We had a liar: Jef (who role sounds like a serial killer)

He wants to kill a powerrole.. well okay...

Zhinque now jumps on this even more insane idea without a moments thought??

So he know wants to kill:
nmillar: most likely town in my opinion
SPF also very likely town due to role
Kill Red Baron a claimed town power role (not confirmed though)
Have Baz block a town vanilla (I get the reason, so hmm maybe)
Have NFY (who is paranoid) cop either Zhinque or Damnation.. Why??
Have me protect Jef..Why? If they want to kill a serial killer who have to kill each night.. let them...
And then have the two vanilla do nothing.

So you don't want me to track someone and get reliable results?? But you do want me to protect someone and die.

Your suggestion means as far as I can see a very very effective way to kill up to four town people in one go. (four if jef is truthful and therefor we still have another night-kill - I believe that one).

So lets say that we kill 4 town people: That leaves us with: 4 players.. if two are mafia they won..

A more reliable plan would be to:
Lynch jef -> He have lied and withheld important info + he sounds like a serial killer
Red Baron traces someone -> Could be whomever we suspect the most
Have NFY cop me - if you really want to use the paranoid one
Have Baz protect another target (maybe Damnation or Zhinque (I say you do to nmillar mostly confirming Damnation)) (I guess if I traced Baz that could also prove him?).

Then new day begins:
First of: we consider: Was there any nightkill
Have nmillar claim his knowledge on the spot: If he learned of a lie well, then great. Otherwise maybe he'll know something from flavor not mentioned - worth a shot.
I also post my result as the first thing, same for NFY
Damnation posts if he got any flavor due to Baz. Baz posts as well.

Unlike the other idea: This doesn't kill a ton of people. It earns us more info... And yes, I know that the mafia could then target me. If they do, then you also learned something useful -> Same goes for others.

Just a last thing want me to post the other reply I typed out before this massive post storm? For now I'll just post the part where I respond to NFY:
It just basically said I ran through some tunnels to a hiding place (called a panic room in the flavor) with the before mentioned comfy sofa with drinks and stuff as said. As to the other questions by NFY: Well I don’t know. I apparently am just a guy that can do a lot of stuff. It mentions that it is the reason I been able to survive in this town with all the gangs and it also makes a short mention of fixing a tank and microwave. So maybe I was in the army? Though it never says it. I haven’t used the doctor as said, so dunno how it would work for me.. But flavor says I know basic first aid thats about my knowledge of how it could work. I know that when I was to roleblock nmillar it talked about a tranquilizer gun. My nickname just appears to steam from the role it self, with all the stuff I can do one time.

Last note to SPF: nmillar mentions that he judges from flavor, so guess he might have gotten a more precise info with the case of Damnation? Just an idea.

None of the information he's told us about Damnation especially says he's town and if it's simply his interpretation of the flavour, there's no way that could be 100%.

First of all, when did I ever suggest we kill a power role? I specifically said that if anyone were to hammer SPF, it should either be me or a claimed vanilla, to AVOID killing off potential power roles. Yes, I said I was going to kill you, because I saw (and still see) you as the single scummiest acting player currently alive. If given free reign, I still might do that. I haven't decided.

I'm sitting on potentially the single most powerful role that we know of in this game, and as a completely new player. So of course I was being EXTREMELY careful about what information I gave out, because I didn't have a damn clue what would/wouldn't be a good idea. Just look at what happened to Rod when he outed information. Was it taking it a little far to keep quiet even after everyone had full claimed? Well, others seem to think so. I have no idea. I'm just trying to play as intelligently as I can with what limited knowledge I have.

I also fail to understand why you would want me lynched because I "sound like a serial killer." I'm town aligned. I win when town wins. And if this weren't the case, I would still be lying about my role. I'm not going to arbitrarily start killing people I think are townies. In fact, if we decide to risk my getting NKed and take a vote on who I kill, I basically will serve as a free second lynch. If you lynch me today, you miss that chance.

I'm not surprised that you spoke out against my plan (though I notice you haven't poked any real holes in it), as you're my main suspect for scum at the moment.

I've already explained why I find it unlikely to be more than one scum left.

So, let's go through each scenario, if we follow my plan:

[/i]nmillar is scum[/i]
He hammers SPF today and dies.

SPF is scum
He has hammered by nmillar today and dies.

I am scum
At night, Baz blocks me so I can't perform a kill. I am promptly lynched the next morning.

R_B is scum
Come night, he is killed by Jefe. Who he kills does not matter.

Damnation is scum
Since myself and Jefe are protected, and R_B is already assigned to be killed by Jefe, he has three options: 1) Kill Baz 2) Kill NFY 3) Kill no one.
1) We wake up with four players left. There being two nightkills confirms me as town, since I was blocked by Baz. I, NFY, and Jefe Lynch Damnation.
2) We wake up with four players left. There being two nightkills confirms me as town, since I was blocked by Baz. I, Baz, and Jefe lynch Damnation.
3) We wake up with five players left. The lack of a non-Jefe nightkill points the finger squarely at myself, and I am promptly lynched. The game then goes to night with four players left, and Damnation is killed by Jefe.

NFY is scum
Since myself and Jefe are protected, and R_B is already assigned to be killed by Jefe, he has three options: 1) Kill Baz 2) Kill Damnation 3) Kill no one.
1) We wake up with four players left. There being two nightkills confirms me as town, since I was blocked by Baz. I, NFY, and Jefe lynch Damnation. Once night falls, Jefe kills NFY, and NFY kills whomever. The next day dawns with 1 townie alive.
2) We wake up with four players left. There being two nightkills confirms me as town, since I was blocked by Baz. I, Baz, and Jefe lynch NFY.
3) We wake up with five players left. The lack of a non-Jefe nightkill points the finger squarely at myself, and I am promptly lynched. The game then goes to night with four players left, and NFY is blocked by Baz. Once day rolls around, Baz and Jefe lynch NFY.

So, as long as Baz and Jefe are both town, which I strongly believe they are, we win. yay.

I was talking to Zchinque, not you. He was the one to suggest the plan. Of course as a reaction to what you wrote about intentions.

Okay, good. But full mass claim kinda means claiming all. Its a golden rule: Town never lies. By not revealing such a big part of the information you lied. If you had kept one or two things from flavor back to for instance allow nmillar to maybe get a file on you for a check/same with NFY that would in my opinion be okay. But this was a lie.

You not only sound like one.. you are apparently one. According to you, you have to kill each night...thats serial killing. In regards of your alignment.. I don't know - Since we have no proof of it. Personally I don't see that role being town - third party at best. Combined with the lie, thats why I wanted to lynch you in the plan I suggested. However I agree with you in regards of you being a possible target for a nightkill in case your truthful, and that was a point I used in my argument against Zchinque, who wanted you protected, meaning a wasted option for you to take a kill. Understand that he properly believes you to be town and as such could be powerful. But his plan has too high a risk of failure. Hence my other suggestion. Of course we could also not lynch you, but that would mean leaving a known killer and liar, who have claimed town to survive. And yes, my view is influenced by my belief of you not being town.

And reduce the chance of getting a town killed by 50% and maybe 100% if your scum :P

Anyway, off to bed. Hope this message doesn't contain to much odd stuff due to me being sleepy :)

Votecount:
1- Zchinque - Nmillar

Not Voting:Red_Baron,Damnation,Zchinque,Bazilisek,Sirprimalform,Notfrenchyet,jefequeso

With 8 Alive it takes 5 to lynch

Deadline 10pm 27th Feb

So where are all the mysteriously dead townies? Where are the unexplained extra mafia NKs? If my role is true, and I'm mafia, then you would have proof of it. And you wouldn't know anything about me, either. I would have made up some innocuous sounding role for the mass claim, with help from the mafia wiki. If my role is false, and I'm mafia, then you risk nothing by leaving me alive, at least for tonight. But if my role is true and I'm town (which, by the way, is the case), then I'm a powerful tool for you. Take two votes instead of one...lynch one player during the day, and let me kill the other one at night. Barring a possible mafia doctor (which might be the case considering the lack of a night 2 NK), you get two lynches. Are you willing to throw that away to adhere to some "golden rule?"

It's you guys' choice. I'll do whatever you think will be most helpful, even if it involves hammering SPF. After all, a town win is a win for me, whether or not I'm still alive to see it.

Just a short reply, as I was going to bed. There is a hole in you plan.. a giant one: It all hinges on you being town or/and Baz being town and Jef being town. If two or one of those are not, what your doing with your plan is making town lose 4 people, potentially losing the town the game. Why you want to take that gamble when there is a safer and more sane way is a strange choice. Also you seem to be interested in killing of all who has been somewhat confirmed by nmillar. Thought you were going to rethink the SPF idea.. guess not.

Oh and remind me again who said earlier that of course you know your town, so you wouldn't want to kill yourself as the hammer? Well I know who I am, I am fairly certain I know what alignment nmillar, damnation, NFY and SPF have. And your plan kills 3 people, one town and two I believe to be town. Agreeing to that would be stupid. And when there is less dangerous alternatives as well, why not consider those? Town has time. If we just get hopefully one scum, we win. There is no point in acting without being as certain as possible.

Lets look at my suggestion in a similar fashion as you just did:
jef is dead, hence if he is scum Yea - if he is third party - Yea. If he is town, well he still would have to kill someone every night. So potential scum kill or potential town kill avoided.

My track reveals who visited where, allowing to check up on actions and at the same time pretty much confirming that power of mine (assuming I don't get lucky and hit scum, which will I guess be hesitant to confirm a visit I would claim he did :P). So if I reveal my action first, then others can chime in to confirm/deny.

If NFY cops me, we might get lucky and get similar results as with SPF -> Could confirm my claim

Baz protects Zhinque: If there is no nightkill, well we would know why. If there is, then we would also know something. (unless there is two scums left of course (seem doubtful, but hmm)).

Nmillar survived: Gets new file. Maybe he gets info about me.. in which case if there is some flavor I haven't mentioned he has, I can confirm that, which would deny/confirm Baz theory.

Baz also posts, if he get similar amount of flavor as last with jef, then that might be used to confirm his use of ability, without me tracking him.

So we eliminate several potential scums suspects, without killing them. If we didn't win by lynching jef the game goes on.

Now we have some more confirmed people. I have a doctor left, NFY can still target people, Baz can still protect/block and nmillar will get another file on the following day (assuming they are still alive of course) and SPF well, will be there I guess, together with you and Damnation. We decide what to do depending on info gained. A lynch occurs. If I was not the lynch target and same for the others: I protect someone NFY or nmillar? Baz blocks/protects the next closest suspect (if its me by then, I can't protect - but heck might happen). Then we get results again: No nightkill -> Whomever was blocked most likely, new file from nmillar: increased chance of revealing a liar. New info from NFY. (If I got night killed or others did: new info from that). By now the options are very limited and scum (if any remaining) is most likely found out: He is lynched.. town hopefully wins.

Thats how I see it. I don't see any long term in yours, its more putting all or nothing up - when its not needed.

Anyway, too much ramble: Off to bed. Hope it made sense what the point of my argument is.

It doesn't rely on my being town whatsoever. I've already explained this. If I am scum, I get blocked tonight, and lynched tomorrow. It does rely on them being town, yes. I've already stated as much.

And let's take a look at that:
There is no way Jefe is mafia. He has claimed a kill on a night where we know the mafia also killed.
It's technically possible that Baz is mafia. Technically possible, but unlikely to the point where it really isn't worth taking it into consideration. He was outed as doc (jailkeeper) on day 1, and has not been counterclaimed. We have confirmed the roleblocking part of his ability. If he is scum, it means that the town has no protective role at all, and that both the mafia factions had a roleblocker. Okay, lets. Go through all the possible scenarios, like I did. That's odd, as my plan stretches from today's lynch until the game is over, no matter when that is.

I must say I'll have to start looking at our friend R_B more closely. I've been giving him a semi-free pass lately, but his lack of comprehension and unwillingness to die for his town (heh) start looking very suspicious indeed.

Everyone seems to have missed that mafia kills appear to be alternate nights. Tonight would therefore be the Gambiani family's turn and as they're both dead (Robbeasy strongly hinted that there were only two of them), there won't be a mafia kill tonight.

1. I have not missed that.
2. There is a (tiny) chance there's still another Gambiani in the house.
3. I would presume that if one of the mafias is killed off entirely, the alternating kills mechanic gets scrapped. For balancing reasons.

Hmm... Yes Jefe kills someone every night, but I think you're really trying to twist this by labelling him a serial killer. Also, keeping information back is not a blatant contradiction, which I believe is the hinge of the lynch all liars argument. In this sense, Jefe hasn't done any scummy lying, and furthermore he came straight out with the information after being asked about it - and it cleared up the mystery death of TB. (By the way, you also originally created a similar sitation in your original claim, since you were attempting to hold back from revealing your remaining abilities.)

As to "using the paranoid one", I think of myself as a flavour cop rather than an alignment cop. There's certainly enough stuff in my results to point out contradictions in roleclaims.

The point of Zchinque's plan is logically it should lead to a town win, NOT, as you seem to be suggesting, to the most information. Suggesting we forgo the "win" plan and instead use an "information" plan strikes me as really bizarre. Why would you still be bothered about gaining and verifying information when it looks like we might be running into the final stretch of the game?

If you're against this plan so vehemently, I would assume that's because you think Baz and/or Jefe are scum/3rd party. I'd be interested to see your cases against them.

However, I do think we should look at the outcomes of the plan if Jefe or Baz ARE anti-town - I think it's very unlikely, but we should be prepared for anything.

Depends, the alternating nightkills might get scrapped if a mafia faction is offed, as baz mentioned.

I actually kind of like your explanation, the issue is that you're my main suspect. Plus, I strongly believe nmillar is town, and his ability is quite useful for town, provided he lives through the night (More information is useful). In contrast to my previous outburst, I therefore suggest that you and I be the first to be offed, and considering nmillar's ability being passive, a roleblock from baz should not prevent him from getting his information (This is an assumption and should be considered carefully if we follow on my idea). The reason for you and I is that nmillar thinks I'm definately town, yet baz and you clearly do not, further, both SPF's and my death would confirm or damn nmillar, and your death would ensure the town does not lose a potentially useful power, and we off a suspect (suspected by at least me and nmillar from what I can see) and a "mystery" as baz puts it. You seem to be the one most people either suspect or cannot place properly.

In all essence, I think killing off nmillar is very foolish (Considering I know my role and alignment, and it is as I have stated (though unconfirmed because of the animosity of nmillar's reliability), I am trusting his role to be as he have stated)

Well, if one is strictly speaking roles then yes - I don't think he is a serial killer. But killing/having to kill several people is a serial killer. But yes, the fact that he killed a mafia from gambiani hints at him being either town or third party. Unless the tiny chance of more than one mafia being around - I don't think it likely, but I keep it in the back of my head.

So it can be argued whether not saying is lying or not, but:
He says here flat-out that he doesn't know if it changes anything... He knew it changed something: That is a lie. And while talking about it also avoiding such a big part of info in a agreed upon fullclaim is in my opinion lying.

But don't misunderstand: I trust his claim completely, I just don't like it - And thus I don't want to place towns chances mostly on that. (And yes, looking at balance I see what is meant by him being town.. It just feels wrong).

Because info is all we have to go for and if Zchinque is scum, then he is not suggesting the best plan for town. As you said yourself I consider him scum and is not very inclined to take his plan that means killing a lot of townies. Which I only see as a way to lose for town. So no, its not necessarily the town win plan he suggested, might easily be the opposite. So I want more info and thus more chances of confirming -> Catching scum.

I don't consider Baz scum..

My point exactly and reason for my argument against the case. Too high risk.

Pre-Post Edit: Noticed Damnations post, I can agree with that a lot more. It keeps the info, lowers the risk and clears up stuff from both sides of suspects.

Oh, I kinda missed that. I was thinking it earlier (when I was considering the no night kill when I killed Vitek), but not much since. But if thats the case, why didn't Gambiani kill someone.. hmm

If I could die to kill a scum/make town win I would gladly do so. But since I know what I am and have opinions about others, I am judging from that. Hence I personally assume that the plan proposed by Zchinque means 3 dead towns for sure. With kills of 2 potential info sources - both of which could be confirmed another way.