I am wondering how that works for you? Since its quite obvious that you don't shout random stuff in all your posts.. So is it just the first for the day or?

So, reading the Traitor wiki page it mentions that the existence of a traitor usually means that the mafia is undersized by one.

According to the Mafia page on the mafia wiki, somewhere between 20% of players and 33%of players are mafia. Which leaves us with 3 at an absolute lowest and 5 at the highest.

Now, if the traitor is calculated into that we have between 2 and 4 actual mafia members left. I'd err towards 4 simply due to Rodzaju's mentioning of several power roles making it seem like the town is rather strong, and so would require a larger mafia. 3 is also typically the number of mafia we have in the 13 player setups, so one could presume that a larger setup means more mafia.

However the only kill we have that vaguely resembles a mafia is Vitek, who was killed at night, presumably by the mafia.

In other news, Jefequeso does seem kind of suspicious regarding the Lovers role, but then again, Joe is confirmed to be a lover and not only did jefequeso not commit suicide, nobody else did either. Nobody has counter-claimed jefequeso, so I see no reason to believe he isn't the other half of Joe's lover-pair.

@Twilight I certainly don't blame you, because if it were me I'd be suspicious too. Once again, though, I'm going to go back to my point of why would I claim lover as Mafia? Claiming lover as town seems to have turned out to be a bad move. But claiming lover as Mafia would be a ridiculously stupid move (especially since I was basically anonymous beforehand). Even a newbie would know not to do that. Why would X use a lover role without using the lover specifications? I have no idea. But let's not forget that the "this doesn't seem like the way a game would be set up" argument really didn't work at all in Rod's case. His role ended up being just as powerful as he claimed, even though everyone was convinced that there was no way that a mod would give someone that amount of power.

@Baron I have a certain number of words I have to put in all caps every day. I like to use them all up at the start, so I don't forget about it.

The problem is, you want me to believe that a mod would alter a role in mid-game like that to keep a person alive. With a role like that it had to be added in with the knowledge that either of you might have been the first kill of the game if either of you ended up being lynched.

It just makes more sense to me that you might have lied about your role because everyone would probably be so focused on Baz/Rodzaju that they might have missed that you didn't commit suicide the first night.

so vitek being a traitor means it was good for me to vote for him? huzah! i did something right
and as for jefequeso i think that mod had the idea that if his lover dies he lives but if he dies his lover dies..maby cos mafia is underpowerd in this game and he is mafia? so...vote jefequeso

Fairly huge compilation of my theories and ideas coming up :D

So just to get it straight, your suggesting that we had a lover pair, where Joe was town (proven) and that Jef was scum, and then when the scum killed Joe, instead of killing Jef as it was expected, Violator changed his mind and let Jef live so the mafia faction wouldn't be weaker?

Now let me ask a perfectly legit question: Why would the mafia ever make such a gamble?

If they knew that Jef would die if Joe died, then it makes absolutely no sense for them to night-kill Joe. Its highly unlikely that they would consider it worth taking the chance that the mod would help them out in case of such a kill and I am therefor pretty damn sure that such an idea is invalid.

Also from what I gathered your thinking that if Jef was scum and died, his lover (the town would die)? I can also see some pretty severe troubles with that one.. Although I won't rule it out completely, it just doesn't sound logical or balanced to me.

On a side note: Whats with the hasty voting for Jef as lynch target, from both Twilight and Cruward_Darkeyes? We already had several dead townies and one traitor, killed at night - unlike all the town lynches we had so far. I would say now would not be the time to start a band wagon on the first 10th post of a new day - Perhaps taking it a bit more with ease and lets consider both the night event and some of what people wrote might be an idea as its not in our best interest to start quick lynching people.

Previous kill scene:
[i]You search the town and you come across a house that has the door literally knocked off the hinges.

You step inside and to your horror Joesapphire is laying dead in a pool of blood. His left leg is broken in two, His right hand has been shattered and it appears his skull was cracked like a egg by a large blunt object.
[/i]

On yet another side note: Jef has already commented that the killing was committed in a different matter than the last one (See above) (more of an execution style or something? Than the brute force obvious in the first one) and he also appears to be a slightly different target than what I would expect the mafia to kill.
Jef suggested that this could be a prof of more than one mafia, but then I would consider it more likely that they would have killed a mafia member? Of course assuming they know each other...

So I am considering if this was even performed by the mafia? because if thats the case then it gives us a very interesting info: Its shows that no night-kill was performed by the mafia this night. That leads me to wonder: What prevented it then? because that would mean that if someone prevented a player from performing an action (meaning if the assumed lack of night kill in this theory, weren't due to a game mechanism or pure luck), then that person would know that he/she have struck a scum.

Lastly, while looking back at the previous kill scene I noticed that even then after the killing of Joe made Jef comment that:

which is basically an attempt to try to bring multiple mafias into play, just as he did after this kill. Just caught my eye as an odd reaction since talking about multiple mafia is not really helping.. it gains us nothing. Since one dead scum is just as important to us no matter which faction or whatever he/she is from. So the only one's having an interest in such a subject would be the mafia itself at least from my point of view. Of course that interest would be most meaningful if they didn¨t know about each other, but yea - thats just me wondering, since I know why the idea came forth - but its the continued discussions this comment is meant to address.

Warning the following is based entirely on flavor and I am only making this as a note:
Also returning to the night-kill from day 2, I am reading a strong man from its description - which refers back to my idea about a prevented night kill, meaning that it couldn't have been a doctor although Baz would basically block someone as well?

But yea, enough rambling

Lastly I figured it about time I wrote who I suspected as scum:

I had a finger at Vitek, well turned out it weren't entirely wrong.

I am rather suspicious of Twilightbard, mainly due to his posting and different behavior than usual.

I am somewhat jumping between Jef as town/not town, based on a strange theory of Jef using his knowledge of town people to appear innocent by avoiding or defending lynch targets. The problem with that theory is that I find it hard to prove or disprove since I can read basically any action into it and it would fit..

Both nmillar and damnation is on my town list - Haven't really seen anything that made me suspect them so far. ;)

Orryyrro I am a bit unsure about. I think its just because I am used to consider him mafia from other games, but well.

NotFrenchYet has gone rather silent, and I can't really say I have a firm opinion about her.

Cruward_Darkeyes: Lurking way to much and I consider him a scum possibility - and I have the idea that if Twilightbard turns out to be scum, then I am considering Cruward as a definite scum as well. But well, he has been lurking so much its really only an opinion based on very few posts and could easily be due to lack of attention/being new, but I am not really buying that he is still so new to the game so far in.

Robbeasy is another one of those I have divided ideas about, I don't like that he was among the first to start the lynch of Rodzaju, but as I stated back then when voting for Rodzaju, he was playing in a way that forced the lynch upon himself, so can't really read anything from it. And the issue did indeed need to be solved and it gave us some info.

So Robbeasy is either a very smart scum or a town in my book.

Thats it for now :)

I'll be honest, I don't know, it's a situation that I can't figure out an answer to at all, and I HAVE been thinking about this quite a bit considering I brought it up under LaL. Hell, there's the simple possibility that Jef wasn't allowed to reveal his role or his other part, and someone else made the NK decision.

This is simple. I don't believe him at all. I don't believe his explanation as to why he's still alive when his role says that he is supposed to die if the other part of his pair does. Something about it doesn't sound right and at the very basis, I feel like he's lying about his role, and it's part of the town's duty to lynch liars. I have a role who is supposed to commit suicide when his partner dies. I have a player alive at day 3 claiming that role when his partner is dead night 1, the pieces don't add up, and I feel there's only one course of action.

So why didn't the real other half of the lover pair die? Clearly this is not a case where the other half of the lover pair commits suicide, or we'd have a second dead lover. It would be Lynch All Liars when he admits he's not the other lover or when someone else flips lover, not when Lover isn't working the way its supposed to according to the wiki.

ok 1st up im suggesting that jef some sort of speicl lover thingy going on that he was told about and i didn't actuly imeditly think he was scum i just kinda thort that might be something a mod would make since some others wher talking about town having an abundance of power roles and thus makeing it hard for the mafia and 2nd thing why the link between me and Twilightbard ?

Been away all weekend - i see things have moved on a bit...

First things first - Rod turns up Town. Arse. As I said yesterday , I still stand by voting for him though - The info he had given out caused no end of WIFOM, and to gain the most info he was the logical choice for lynch. We'll ignore the fact I actually thought he was scum, mmmmkay?..;o)

This has interested me

can someone explain to me why Baz is confirmed to be Town? As far as I was aware, Rod ONLY had confirmation of his role, not his Alignment. I may have missed something here, so don't take this the wrong way, just looking for confirmation.

Multiple Mafia - it was pointless second day speculating about this, but not so much today. It certainly is a different type of Night Kill to yesterday, and there is no mention of any clan type stuff, as there was first day. But this is very interesting..

Even though there's no clan type flavour, as yesterday, thats a fairly massive leap of logic, to the point of trying to lead us down that path...I'll agree to a different type of kill from yesterday, but to immediately infer from that its not mafia, therefore there's no NK from them, and then further speculate about reasons why, is to me an attempt to steer us, rather than a valid point...

Jefequeso Lover - should have died... It's certainly not good for him that he has lasted into a third day, but as had been mentioned, we are quite a few Townies down already, rash voting at this stage would be foolhardy.
I don't like his explanations, I think theres something screwy about his role, and its a massive FoS at Jefequeso for now. With also this - he has stated categorically he thinks all the Mafia were on Rods Lynch. Would be interesting if he flips Mafia to look at who WASN'T on the lynch, wouldn't it...

TwilightBard - Hammer vote out the blue on Rod, and quick to finger Jef. If I didnt believe that you are Entirely correct on your reasonings for voting Jef, I would be suspicious of you right now. I do think the quick bandwagon on Jef is hasty, but i agree with the reasoning.


Thats the reads I have from Day 3 so far - lets have a heated debate! (obscure English comedy quote - Mrs Merton)....

Good point. I was just assuming that his being doctor made him automatically town, but I suppose it's possible that there could be a mafia doctor.

just putting it out their i think that multi mafi is bull and sorry for badly done post

why do you think this?

i gess i don't have a proper reason for it it just seems like theirs no point to it and almost illogical

Illogical in context of this game and what has happened so far, or illogical in general?

Because if you think the latter, multiple mafia isn't unheard of, not as common as a single mafia but it does happen.