Mostly we're on the same page, all I want to add to this is that console players feel the same way: A large chunk of current generation console games aren't real console games. They feel like PC games that have been ported over and yes, they don't work well with the minimalistic controls you get on consoles. Where's SSX? Where are the simple controls of previous Tony Hawk's? Nowadays we get Shaun Palmer and Skate, games that take ages to get started and even then aren't really any good... not to mention UT3, Call of Duty, Haze and so on and so forth. Back in the PS2 days there were real console shooters like Timesplitters, now we get ported PC shooters that just don't work.

When you think about it, the vast majority of PC games are actually as simplistic, if not moreso, than console games. That is, if you include internet flash games and crappy 'bargain' titles as PC games. And why wouldn't you? The majority of PC gamers are, in fact, playing games like that. And the most popular PC game, World of Warcraft, is so simplistic you can actually program your computer to play it for you while you're afk most of the time.
Likewise, consoles are flooded with alot of dumb crap also, but there are a handful of games on them that are really good. Some of them just work better on consoles than PC, too. Gears of War comes to mind, as a game that just felt much better to me being played on the Xbox than on the computer. Fighting games too, although I'm not a big fan of them.
Basically what I'm saying is, that the majority of the games that come out for both the PC and the consoles are crap. Trying to say that one is dumber than the other is nonsensical imo.

Some games work brilliantly on PC and shitty on consoles, RTS' are an excellent example, FPS' are another example where they have to be done perfectly or they suck.
Conversely, some games work perfectly on console and feel clunky on PC, games like Tomb Raider and the like are good examples.
It's mostly just controls, What we really need is a unified control scheme, mouse & a keyboard/gamepad hybrid with numerous buttons and analogue controls for movement. With something like that we could actuall PLAY an RTS on a console rather than just swear at it because you can't bloody well target anything and we could walk carefully in a 3rd person action game without the use of a periodically dodgy 'walk' key

C&C 3 is scheduled for a PS3 release... let's hope they enable mouse support.
Right now console devs are scared to enable mouse/keyboard, because they think (and rightly so) that this will mess up the balance between mouse and joypad players. I'd just create separate servers for mouse and joypad players, but apparently the devs are unwilling to do so. I've got a mouse2gamepad adapter for my PS3, but it's a poor workaround.

Well the 360 can support mouse & keyboard, it just needs games to add support. The problem with doing it is that removing analogue movement really makes a difference. I never wanted to play GTA4 on console but once I did, I don't think I could play without analogue accelleration or steering.

Same with the PS3. In fact even without any games that support it, I still have a regular USB keyboard hooked up directly just to write messages, but I can't use it ingame, except through the adapter, which more or less tries to map mouse movement to the joystick, but it takes a lot of patience to set up, and even if you get everything working perfectly, you'll still get irritating moments, because you naturally can't turn any faster than with a normal joypad.

I have each of the current-gen consoles and plenty of games to go with it. I also have a kickass PC. I think that PC gaming is not dying, but is certainly losing its momentum as an influential platform. Remember Dark Forces? X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter? Those were made in the glory days when 3D was just starting out, consoles weren't like they were today (back then, consoles were like the PCs of today). What happened? I think that people were sick and tired of buying new components for their systems every year in order to play the latest and greatest of the 90s. Consoles took over soon enough, and now guess what? Madden 09 won't come out on the PC thanks to DRM. Obviously publishers and developers are clearly not taking the time and effort to treat PC gaming like they do with the consoles. So consoles aren't retarded, and that's the problem.

What about the Odyssey 2 - Videopac - Jopac?

I have a 360 I'm happy with, and I have a PC I'm happy with. I game on both, and encounter a pretty good share of moronic idiots on both. As someone said...you'll always notice the jackasses because they're so loud you can't help but hear them.

I have no idea what you're talking about. Never heard of any of them.

A few years back I would have been all fire and sword about this topic. Avid PC gamer, elitist young nerd, etc.
During University (24hrs technology exposure), this changed. Now that I code for a living, I sit in front of Unix machines at least 8 hours a day. And I must say, in my private life I don't want any more technological hassle. And I don't have to show off my technical skills when I'm at home.
I use Mac/OS X because it is shiny and use Windows because it can run games without complaining. I don't own a console, but I can sympathize. Pop in a game and enjoy. That's what you pay for after all.
In a nutshell: The fact that consoles are easy to use is not a valid criticism to me. It is a feature.
The second thing: "Console games are less complex/demanding than PC games." This may be true to a certain extend, but PC and consoles are converging and there are outstanding console-only games (e.g. Shadow of Colossus).
Bottom Line: Relax, guys. Depends on what you want.

"Retarded" gamers? Oh no, I don't think so... they are the other part of the sky, but simply PC is far superior from any standpoint to any past, present and future home console. With PC you don't simply get one machine to rule 'em all, but also a machine capable of emulating 'em all.
So said, I'm looking forward to a better PS2 emulation and the start of a PSP/PS3 emulation. Sooner or later it will happen :-P

That would require you to get a Blu-Ray drive for your computer. If you're gonna pay $300-400 just to emulate PS3 games you buy on your PC, you might as well shell out for a PS3. I have one, and they're awesome.

by the time they have ps3 emulation blu ray drives will be as common as DVDRWs now and will be a choice of blu ray drive or buying that DVD you've been thinking about...

This is just part of tribalistic human nature that you see everywhere and it's all bullshit. My towns better then your town. My musical taste makes me a better person then your musical taste. Star wars fans are better people then star trek fans. Console gamers are better then PC gamers. RPG gamers are better then FPS gamers.
Ad infinitum.
There are retards everywhere.