I'm pretty much forced to claim no matter what after making a case against you during Day 2, and then that result. I was stuck, and I wanted to go first because of that. As far as not waiting, we're at Mislynch and Lose, one mistake and it's game over. There is no reason to wait for an agreement and it gives a chance to take the Mafia by surprise. The longer we wait, the more likely they are to have more then one falseclaim ready.

The added fact that it pushes your claim up from the back is a bonus to me. As I stated towards the end of Day 2, most of your posts about Quad have been pretty suspicious. Imagine my surprise when Quad came up with a power role, and the fact that you were willing to go into the spot that gave you the most time to put together a falseclaim.

As far as that, I propose this. The person who claims names the next person to claim. No one gets a chance to know ahead of time who is to claim, no time to prepare.

It's worth looking at it from the other side:

By wanting to claim last you look like scum trying to get the best chance of constructing a believable falseclaim. By volunteering to go first, I guess Twiglet is trying to show he has nothing to hide.

So what you're saying is, Twiglet made the decision that APPEARS most unthreatening, but isn't so good tactically.

The reason I wanted to claim last is because I am the ONLY one who I know isn't scum. By me going last I can be certain that the scum have to claim before at least one other person. Showing that you have nothing to hide doesn't help town. If a mafioso had confidence in their falseclaim and wanted to go first and it was convincing then that would be harmful to town. It makes a lot more sense to me that anyone would want to claim last than wanting to claim first.

I suppose Twiglet's system would put me next. Obviously I'ld prefer anyone else, and I'ld specifically prefer JMich but if everybody else thinks it's a good idea then we can go with Twiglet.

I'ld rather we worked together to establish an order that we're all happy with and then went through in that order. There's no particular reason why that's a better idea though.

The problem with making an order is it would buy a Mafia member time if their claim falls out from under them. I want to keep them guessing if I can afford to. As for who I would pick...who said I would go for you first? I do have a curiosity in roles and movement now that I take a look at Day 2 with clearer eyes. You aren't the only one I'm interested in a claim from.

The problem with you going last on that reasoning is, you're the only one who can make that claim. With you volunteering like that, it makes me look at it a bit more closely, and doubt what I got back from my night action as clearing you. It leaves me with a problem because now there's no way that I would agree to let you claim last.

I never expected anyone to AGREE that I should get to claim last. That list was my preferred turn order. I expected everyone to make a similar list, and put themselves at the end, and then we would argue over it a bit and eventually have a general sort of consensus - I can see why your method might be preferable.

Anyway I wanted to say that it seems like I'm having a go at you and I'm not trying to. I was a bit annoyed by what seemed like an out-of-turn claim, but I should have been clearer about what I wanted if I wanted you to do something differently. So I'm sorry for being needlessly aggressive.

But for those unclaimed. I put to the group that we don't claim until we've decided on a bit more of a structure for this thing. It would be kinda stupid to NOT Do The Mass Claim now that we've begun.

(Lastly - I wouldn't say that someone doing-nothing-on-a-single-night clears them. I'ld like to for my own sakes, but that would be giving undeserved trust to Imalform)

Jmich-I'd be quite interested in the possible roleclaim you picked up on yesterday but chose not to share. It could be helpful now that we all seem to be going into a mass claim.

To everyone-Well, this leaves me at a slight loss once again. My two top suspects are gone, and they both turned out to be town. This is exactly what happened on day 1; judging from the way day 2 went, I wouldn't say that having our normal conversational bouts, analysis of lynch-wagons, and defense posts will work. Therefore, I'm totally fine with the mass roleclaim idea. Now we need only to decide how we are going to go about said roleclaim.

I'm inclined to go for the more orderly list-then-claim method, although I can see why Twilight objects to this method.

I was originally going to suggest that we elect 2-3 people a day to claim, asking them to claim as early as they possibly could. We'd then spend the rest of the day discussing their claims, and then elect two other people to claim the next day. This now seems overly cumbersome to me, but I would like to know what the rest of you think about this idea.

I like that idea. It makes falseclaims more difficult. So if the majority agrees on this mode, who would you nominate, Twiglet?

Also, wanting to go last seems quite scummy to me. The one who goes last can have a leisurely look at all the available claims and construct a claim that fits everything and can't be falsified. So I would be very interested in moving Joe up a few rungs on the claim ladder.

As for me, I am willing to claim whenever you all want me to. I have nothing to hide, so my claim will be the same no matter in what order we do the claiming. Also, I definitely think we should go through with the massclaim now that it has been started.

I am going to post what I thought I got yesterday, since it turns out to be both correct and incorrect. Based on post 492 and post 528 by QuadrAlien, I was under the impression that he was crumbing to cop, and hinting that he had a read on Flubbucket, but no way to push it other than claiming. I was basing that read on the following quotes.
Of course, with Quad being dead, the first question is if I had something to do with his death. I probably have, since even though I didn't reveal my read outright, I did reveal that there was someone who was crumbing. If I could find such a read, more people could. Is it possible that one of those who was pushing me for my reads is the one who also came to the same conclusion as me? Or is it that someone else had come to the same conclusion, but chose not to participate in the discussion?

And who are the 3 people (4 if you include me) who reacted to me saying there may be breadcrumbs? Joe, who said that I should have sat on the information, TwilightBard who finds it ironic that I complain about lack of information while not sharing any, and finally CSPVG who asks me to share that information in the same post he asks QuadrAlien for a role claim. So, could it be that CSPVG had also come to the same conclusion as I did, but was hoping that I had found another PR?

Let's also add the following:

We are currently at . If we lynch a townie, we lose (unless NK is blocked/prevented). So if we go for a lynch, we should be certain that we are lynching mafia. If we go for a nolynch, Day 4 will be [url=http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=LyLo]LYLO (unless NK is blocked/prevented, in which case we are at the same spot we currently are). So you are suggesting that half of us don't claim today, and have them claim tomorrow. Does that mean that you are going for a nolynch or that you hope scum won't have to claim today, and a townie will be lynched?


Suddenly, I've become very interested in CSPVG...

This made me laugh QuadrAlien, great line. Here's to hoping you come back.

What is flubbucket saying with the coming back nonsense talk??

Bolded and underlined for your convenience of reading. Perhaps he will be making a return he will. Watch out for the ink spray!!

Huzzah Joe is both Ditherproof and Unkillable so surely he must be a townie??? Why does this not make sense to me??

Exactly! So I put the only person who I know isn't mafia last on my ideal list, because that's the only way I can ensure that a mafioso doesn't get the last position.

As it is now, it's not so useful that I go last because my role isn't a complete mystery to everybody anymore, so my list looks more like:

SirPrimalform
JMich
Robbeasy
Lifthrasil
Joe
CSPVG
Flubbucket

I've moved SirPrimalform up my list because having part of his role revealed might - if he's falseclaiming - force him into an uncomfortable position. I know that you can all say the same about me and I reiterate - THIS IS MY PREFERRED ORDER I AM NOT SUGGESTING THAT YOU ALL BLINDLY FOLLOW THIS LIST.

Does no-one understand why I would expect everybody to put themselves last? Are you keeping silent?

CSPVG - JMich has already pointed out one flaw in the plan. The second is that a mass claim needs to be all inclusive. Otherwise there's no way of telling if you've forced the mafia to claim or not. If you just have three people claim then
1. you might be giving three town roles away to the mafia
2. there's not as much context to compare their claims to and see if they have holes
3. There isn't really a third point. It's not as fun as a mass claim. That's point three.

JMich - I'm not blown away by these quotes from QuadrAlien. Is there something coded in there that I'm missing or is it just on the face of it?

There is also the slim chance mafia received P1na's role flip instead of the claimed "janitor" thingy. There is still potential for lying.

Maybe P1na was mafia killed by a cop.

Maybe I'm all out of maybees

Perhaps we'll get a phone call from TwisterBE telling us what the heck his role is.

Jealousy I reckon.

Yeah I considered this when Twiglet was so eager to claim. (before it turned out that everybody was falling over themselves not to claim last) It doesn't explain how Twiglet knows what my night action was, but that doesn't mean that someone else doesn't know.

Interesting that you are in such a rush to claim, saying its all we're stuck with - so no point in any analysis of yesterdays bandwagon, or anything like that then?? Then you jump straight in and get on with it without so much as a by-your-leave.......

I'm not saying a mass claim is necessarily a bad idea, but I think other avenues should be explored first and exhausted - otherwise its all cards on the table and the Mafia get a much easier time of it...

Jmich and JoeSapphire-I'm sorry, that was silly of me, I should have been more specific. I meant that we should have 2-3 people claim every real life day. I must point out that I also acknowledged my idea's inherent unworkability and cumbersomeness, but just thought I'd share it and see everyone's opinion.

Also, Jmich, I'm not seeing too much in those quotes. As for why I asked for a claim: I was actually a bit unhappy, although I didn't really say as much, about going for TwisterBE. There's no doubt that he'd done suspicious things, but yesterday kind of meandered and we didn't have much to work with, so I used what was available. I think that if Quadr had claimed, or even if you'd revealed the maybe-crumbing, I'd have voted differently. It, of course, would have been helpful if such things happened earlier, but such is life.

Robbeasy-I think the exhaustion of such topics hasn't really proved all that helpful. Your post that dissected N0x0ss's lynch was met with indifference, and not much conversation was generated. I think that going for a mass claim now would be the easiest way to get people talking.

oooooooooooooooooh I'm sorry for doubting you.