Catshade: *coughplaystation3cough*

Lucibel: I disagree strongly with Gundato's idiot analogy, it's condescending. Downloading a game from Bittorrent or Limewire is not hard and both have been well-publicised. The crux of piracy is about people who can't buy (e.g. poor people, kids) and people who will not buy. I don't think DRM targets either successfully. What DRM does do unfortunately is give companies peace of mind.

Gundato: So you target the idiots, and hope you get some of the others. But, once again, it becomes a balance. You can't alienate the others to TOO much of a degree.

Stuff: I have to agree with Lucibel referring to anyone that doesn't use torrents as idiots is a bit condescending. That can be a fairly large group of very intelligent folks who simply have no reason to acquire the knowledge.
You do sound like an industry insider with the "target the idiots, and hope you get some of the others" . . . which, if I understand your previous posts, the "idiots" are the people that cannot hurt you at all, no skills, no knowledge and because of that . . . the people most likely to have problems with DRM. Being "idiots" and suffering the most problems would these not be the first ppl you alienated? But you said you didn't work in the industry so . . .

Lucibel: Neither Ubisoft or Starforce admitted it went too far - the reaction each company had to the situation was based on saving face from widespread negative publicity that could damage their reputation. I've never had any problems with Starforce and I used and installed it back at the time all the furore was kicking off.
I don't think Gundato's wrong in advocating DRM if it's reasonable DRM. I've said in the past, EA's getting it right these days and I can accept their kind of DRM (though I still dislike it as it doesn't pass my "will I be able to play this game in 10 years " test). I can't accept Take 2 Interactive's unreasonable 3-pronged DRM and it's making me reconsider buying games like Bioshock 2.

Gundato: No, I am referring to the people who want to pirate but are too stupid to google "bit torrent" or "how to pirate a game" as idiots.site, as far as digital distribution goes).
And generally, the people who tend to have problems with DRM (in my experience of hanging out at tech forums) is that it tends to be the people who have things like Daemon Tools installed.
And I really do love how anyone who doesn't think that DRM is a sick plot by evil people with dollar signs for eyes are industry insiders. If that is all it takes, I should go add it to my resume :p

chautemoc: What DRM does Bioshock 2 have?

tb87670: Maybe we need to start a DRM witch-hunting thread, where you list all popular games and what DRM they use :P
By the way ran into this article about DRM not mattering while googling DRM on Bioshock 2:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20081119/1256502889.shtml

chautemoc: Starforce implied it in a couple interviews. One on Gamasutra one on RYG. Too lazy for links. But eh.
EA has been DRM-free with their last few releases. Seems to be continuing that way.
What DRM does Bioshock 2 have?

tb87670: Maybe we need to start a DRM witch-hunting thread, where you list all popular games and what DRM they use :P

Lucibel: Hasn't been announced yet, but based on Bioshock and GTA 4 it will be SecuRom with a zero day piracy check, activation and disk check.

Stuff: So, you have no problem categorizing "people who want to pirate but are too stupid to Google bit torrent or how to pirate a game" as idiots but you do object to me saying you may fall into the category of industry insiders because of your constant, inevitable, adamant defense of a system that has many objectionable characteristics.
Also, would not the people who have things like Daemon Tools (in your experience of hanging out at tech forums), would they not be smart enough to know that Daemon Tools, Alcohol 120%, AnyDVD etc, etc are targets for DRM (since they obviously use them or they would not be installed) and still . . . they tend to have problems with DRM, clearly they do not fall into the category of "idiots".
My only reason for saying you "sound" like an industry insider is that you do. It is not meant to discount what you are saying. I do not believe DRM is a sick plot, I do believe it is a well thought out method to control distribution and use of digital media by a group of VERY intelligent people. I do also believe it is about greed but more about gaining control of the distribution process and eliminating game reselling which . . . amazing as it may be . . . would produce more profit.
You have every right to defend DRM and variations thereof, you points are valid and you are not evil. Also, myself or others have a valid right to question DRM and to point out the bad aspects it brings to the gaming world. I am not evil for doing so. I will not try to convince you DRM is bad but I will point out the failures and inconvenience it brings with its use. On the other hand, you do seem to want everyone to calmly accept DRM and its various forms without question.

Gundato: Actually, I find it more hilarious than anything that anyone who doesn't scream that we need to burn down Securom's offices is an industry insider. Newsflash: I actually don't approve of a lot of the ways DRM has evolved. But it is working for what one can reasonably expect.
And no, I don't count the Daemon Tools users as "idiots" who DRM works against. But I will say that it is hilarious how often people just have to say "The reason it is saying that it detects emulation software is because you have Daemon Tools running...". And if people like that can figure out how to pirate stuff, the ones who can't ARE idiots :p. But yeah, THOSe are the people I tend to see having ACTUAL problems with DRM. There are exceptions (I had a lot of issues with one flavor of Safedisc), but those are the rare cases.
And read through most of what I have said in this thread (and on these boards in general): I don't support or push DRM (well, I do push Steam and EA's DLC-based model, but that is because those benefit the users). In fact, I complain quite a bit about limited activation models. But, at the same time, I find it hilarious when people scream and moan about Steam or Impulse, or when they seem to think that no DRM at all is the way to go (although, they are perfectly okay with disc checks and serial numbers :p). If anything, Steam and Impulse have HELPED avoid the more "draconian" DRM models.
All I have said in this thread is that DRM is NOT meant to stop piracy 100% (because most detractors seem to think that if it is only 99% effective, it should not be used. I fear to see how they feel about condoms :p), but instead meant to outright stop a group of a size that we don't know (but which is probably somewhat large) and merely deter other groups. But the more hardcore anti-DRM people tend to think that anyone who isn't throwing molotov cocktails is a supporter.
Chautemoc is right, it IS better to offer extras/registered items. Just keep in mind that those are tied to forms of DRM. Hell, I am sure we all remember when Stardock first talked about DRM-free GalCiv2. Everyone was happy. A game with NO DRM!!! I mean, yeah, we had to register it to get patches. But there was NO DRM!!!
Wait a moment... Isn't that what Steam does? :p
It is just a matter of making the DRM palatable to the users. Starforce was freaky effective, but the pirates spread too much bad juju about it. Steam is still pretty effective, but it pisses off Stardock and IGN. And the DLC-based model only really works for the large companies (EA and Ubisoft), because anyone else is too likely to go down the crapper.

jimbob0i0: ....
So three cheers for GoG and the fantastic community and here's to an astounding 2010 and no doubt some excellent releases and materials through it!