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Maighstir: Not bare-bone, but Dell have a few machines with Ubuntu. You might have to look in the business segment rather than consumer machines though.
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Gnostic: I don't find Ubuntu on Dell business segment, but they did offer Window 7 Pro there.
Yeah, it varies by country. And apparently, their store page for some countries even have a nice way of selecting the features you want, but require the customer to go by model (and each language's site use one of 3-4 different layouts which makes it a bit more difficult for me when I don't understand enough of the language to navigate).
Post edited May 30, 2016 by Maighstir
Take a look at these sites:
https://www.thinkpenguin.com/
http://www.gnu.org/links/companies.html
http://www.computerworld.com/article/2485430/windows-pcs/preloaded-linux-systems--weighing-the-options.html
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Lin545: I do know people mentality though ;) That's a regular excuse by adults, when they don't want to do something. That's also how I act myself, when I have no urge for something. ;)
Followed closely by the other old classic: "if only XXX game/program/whatever was available on Linux, I'd ditch Windows forever". And then, when XXX is finally ported, they exchange it for YYY game/program/whatever. Rinse and repeat ad infinitum.


Corollary: (and this is my piece of advice to the OP and anyone considering switching to Linux) only do it if you're genuinely pissed off by Windows or Microsoft. That way your chances of enduring the learning process will be higher, and you won't abandon the idea after the first setback.
Post edited May 30, 2016 by muntdefems
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muntdefems: Corollary: (and this is my piece of advice to the OP and anyone considering switching to Linux) only do it if you're genuinely pissed off by Windows or Microsoft. That way your chances of enduring the learning process will be higher, and you won't abandon the idea after the first setback.
This make great reading to dispell a lot of wrong notions (even a few in this thread) about linux:
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm
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clarry: Well it isn't all rosy on the Linux front. People like to complain about Windows' unification of the UI with mobile, but those who have used Linux have witnessed the change in Gnome, the shift into Unity, major KDE rewrite, etc. At least you can opt out of that mess if you're using alternative, smaller desktops or window managers. On the other hand, if you liked (say) old Gnome, you're pretty much on your own.
This is true but at least there are a lot more options than on Windows, where your only choice is to accept it (while also paying for the privilege with your money and/or personal info) or stop using Windows. Still, Cinnamon and MATE seem a *lot* more stable in this respect.

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clarry: <Concerns about terminal utilities>
I can't really comment much on this as I haven't used the terminal enough, but this seems like something that shouldn't be a major concern for the average user on a distro like Ubuntu or Mint.

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clarry: <PulseAudio / Alsa issues>
I've only used Linux Mint for the past ~3.5 years but I've had sound issues only twice and neither was caused by PulseAudio: one was a driver issue on a laptop (fixed with a .conf tweak) and the other was a software-specific issue.

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clarry: Massive change, massive churn all the time. Ten years ago, major distro updates always caused trouble. Unless you used something rolling release (Gentoo, which I did use). Five years ago, same thing. Today? Same thing. I watched my father update his Fedora today. It was sad. Actually, I was planning on trying Fedora on my new laptopt, but I just lost the appettite for that.
I can't say I've really noticed this in the time I've been using Mint, granted they moved to basing their releases off the LTS releases of Ubuntu since Mint 17, but even before then there weren't such drastic changes that things kept breaking between releases. One of the things I like about Mint is they tend not to change things without good reason.

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clarry: The security thing is another front that isn't exactly rosy. Certainly fanboys keep telling Linux is secure, as if repeating the mantra made it so. Facts are often absent from the surrounding discourse.
Yes, security does depend a lot on the user too... fail to follow safe practices and keep the system updated on any OS and you potentially risk being compromised. Linux is certainly more secure in general than Windows though.

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clarry: Back when I started with Linux (back in 2005) my image of the community was that it was helpful, inclusive, held portability as a highly regarded virtue, and choice was a natural human right. Now the community feels extremely polarized, discussion is very hateful and argumentative, and always uderlined by this "our way or highway" overtone, suggesting that people must make a choice, an exclusive choice, and abandon everything else, or be abandoned. Portability isn't a concern as long as whatever runs on the high and mighty Linux as it exists in the mind of Lennart or whoever..
That isn't how things are in my experience (although there definitely are a few places where things are like that). It depends on where you go and who you talk to, really.

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clarry: As far as privacy goes, you have to be real careful especially with the distros led by corporations. Ubuntu in particular has made some, uh, questionable moves.
It's really only Ubuntu that's questionable on the privacy front (and only Ubuntu itself, not any of its variants/derivatives), and even then it's a lot less than what Microsoft tries to get from its users. IIRC it was just the Amazon search thing, but that's a pretty obvious thing & can easily be turned off, plus when you turn it off it stays off.


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TodaysLoneWolf: That might happen once I relearn Linux. The last time I touched Linux was in 2007 during the Ubuntu Gutsy Gibbon days. It was fast and decent on my Windows XP machine, but I didn't have time to completely learn it due to work and going to school part-time.

Right now I'm looking at Linux Mint as an alternative; maybe I can start using Linux in earnest before the fall semester. Not for classes though, because I still need a fully-functional MS Office (accounting major) but definitely to begin giving Mac OS X and eventually Windows the boot.
I recommend Linux Mint - I even wrote a guide to help people start using it which you might find helpful, and if you have any questions or need any help there are a lot of Linux users here :) Trying it in a VM first is a good idea, you won't be able to play many games but it's quick to set up without needing any system changes or having to reboot & you'll at least be able to get a feel for it that way.


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qwixter: I used Unix then Linux at work, and my home PC is for gaming which is why I will not be switching to Linux. Plus, I hate updating drivers on Linux.
In the time I've been using Mint I've never found updating drivers to be a hassle. The driver manager is very easy to use and drivers installed through that are easily updated via the update manager like any other update. Even when drivers haven't been available via the repositories it wasn't difficult to install them - either a case of updating the kernel, or (in the case of some wifi drivers that needed to be compiled from source) extracting from a tarball & running one or two commands as root.
Post edited May 30, 2016 by adamhm
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te_lanus: I don't understand why people say it's not user friendly. I use it daily and it's easier in use than Vista, 8 and 10. I understand a few years ago (maybe 10+ years ago).

For the community, the people I've met and interact with is quite friendly.
Your problem is one most people have. It's that people like yourself are so focused on yourselves and your own positive experiences that you reject the notion of others having negative ones. You may enjoy a rollercoaster that makes someone else sick. Realistically there's always 2 sides to anything.
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morrowslant: The easiest way to avoid automatically upgrading to Windows 10 from Win7 is to use the
"Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them" setting in Windows Update,
and uncheck the "Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates".
After a complete clean wipe and reinstall of Win 8 on my lappie I simply told it not to update anything since I'm waiting for the free upgrade to disappear, so I can update back to 8.1 again. I don't want a forced Win 10 upgrade (without consent) happening to me like it has to some.

I actually did try a Win 10 upgrade trial for a little bit. While the overall usability is possibly better than Win 8, it's the compatibility part that wasn't doing too hot, so I removed it again.
Post edited May 30, 2016 by mistermumbles
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MaximumBunny: Your problem is one most people have. It's that people like yourself are so focused on yourselves and your own positive experiences that you reject the notion of others having negative ones. You may enjoy a rollercoaster that makes someone else sick. Realistically there's always 2 sides to anything.
Distros like Linux Mint *are* very user-friendly and very easy to use in general (my mother can use it and she's about as computer illiterate as it gets), but that doesn't mean they don't have their share of potential issues.

Windows has (and has always had, will always have) problems too, but that's still considered user friendly even when users are having to actively fight it to stop it from doing things they don't want such as installing Win10 (or otherwise pestering them about it), or automatically resetting privacy settings, or removing software apparently at random after an update and other random weird unexplained behavior.
thanks, good read!
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zer00o: so, has anyone figured out how to make windows 10 at least as useful as windows 8/7. without sharing my data, for my benefit.
I know all the cool kids love to hate Windows 10, but in the end Windows 10 is not really any different, or worse for that matter, than Windows 7.

Yes there are some stupid things, like the Apple style telemetry gathering and Ms trying to trick you into using an online account instead of a local offline account but while those are annoying for a desktop OS (it's nothing new on mobile) most of them can be easily disabled either by using the privacy settings or at worse with third parties tools.

Apart from that the OS is definitely a step up from Windows 8/8.1, more coherent, less unwanted touch nonsense, a couple of nice new features and slightly faster and more responsive. I use it as my main OS at both home and work and haven't noticed any loss of "productivity" at either place.
OP you can buy win 7 or 8 and clean install it. But you will loose your warranty on the device. The OS install is bound to the warranty policies. I've change vista to win 7 years ago for my wife's sony viao. When the DVD crapped out I ask for replacement because it was within 2 year warranty. But they wanted to access the laptop and I told them that's not possible since I've replaced the OS. They said I can't do that. I told them yes I can.. They said your warranty is void unless I rebuy the original OS.. I told them choices words and hung the phone. Anyhooo there are risks.

I've upgrade to win 10 with my current pc and disabled all the data logging from MS. Windows 7 and 8 did it too but win 10 they took it the next level. Do some research and disable all the nonsense ms crapware is running in the backround.

My next PC will use linux. Windows 10 will be my last.
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mistermumbles: After a complete clean wipe and reinstall of Win 8 on my lappie I simply told it not to update anything since I'm waiting for the free upgrade to disappear, so I can update back to 8.1 again. I don't want a forced Win 10 upgrade (without consent) happening to me like it has to some.
This seems a bad idea from a security standpoint. Just run Never10 to disable the Win 10 upgrade. It sets the same settings that would be applied via Group Policy in an enterprise environment. Personally I will be surprised if Microsoft doesn't later offer some limited Win 10 for free special.
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mistermumbles: [ After a complete clean wipe and reinstall of Win 8 on my lappie I simply told it not to update anything since I'm waiting for the free upgrade to disappear, so I can update back to 8.1 again. I don't want a forced Win 10 upgrade (without consent) happening to me like it has to some.
If you are going to run Windows 8 without WindowsUpdating until the free/forced Windows 10 offers end, LOCK DOWN YOUR FIREWALL SETTINGS. Really bad things can happen otherwise.

If user choice + privacy trumps latest generation Hardware + money is no concern, look into the Librem series of laptops. https://puri.sm/products/
The default OS on the Librem devices is a variant of Debian, so any Debian Linux distro should run perfectly on them, Non Debian Linux distros should run on the Librem devices too. No idea if anyone has tested BSD on them.
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muntdefems: Corollary: (and this is my piece of advice to the OP and anyone considering switching to Linux) only do it if you're genuinely pissed off by Windows or Microsoft. That way your chances of enduring the learning process will be higher, and you won't abandon the idea after the first setback.
that’s been my experience as well. 1) have any kind of strong motivation. 2) don’t keep your existing windows around & tack a dual-boot linux onto it. that’s what i tried years ago, and guess how much usage linux got when i could go back to my preconfigured windows real quick whenever i had to read something up to get it done/running on linux.

additional pointers:
- it’s completely legit to choose a distro only for getting acquainted with linux in general, and switch to something that more closely matches your taste later. that decision will come from a more informed place after a few months of playing around with linux anyway. choosing a distro is not a marriage!
- if you are set on doing dual-booting with windows, make it a fresh windows install, so you have to get stuff installed and set up in windows as well. or maybe do that when you have a motivation for switching, but are also as lazy as i am. ;)
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Gydion: This seems a bad idea from a security standpoint. Just run Never10 to disable the Win 10 upgrade.
Eh. *shrug* I use my Windows lappie strictly as a gaming machine, so the sites I access with it are fairly limited and trusted. For everything else I use my Mac mini. I'm not worried about a thing.
Post edited May 31, 2016 by mistermumbles