It seems that you're using an outdated browser. Some things may not work as they should (or don't work at all).
We suggest you upgrade newer and better browser like: Chrome, Firefox, Internet Explorer or Opera

×
low rated
avatar
Breja: I haven't seen the new Matrix yet so I can't judge, but it's important to note that just like Star Wars with the prequel trilogy, the Matrix (which was always overrated in my opinion) was ran into the ground long before with the two utterly terrible sequel films. And Cameron may be Terminator's original creator, but he hasn't done anything actually good since... True Lies in 1994?
avatar
Tokyo_Bunny_8990: The level of decline is more important imo.

The Star Wars prequel trilogy is a series with good ideas with terrible execution. If directed by a competent director that Lucas could have bounced ideas off of (which he wanted, hence why he requested Spielberg to direct PT), it could have been good.

The new movies are a whole new level of bad. Even if the Star Wars ST was an original IP and not Star Wars, they are still terrible movies. Same with Dark Fate which took a huge dump on the Terminator franchise although I guess I do agree that Cameron hasnt made anything good since Terminator 2 (havent seen True Lies. TItanic and Avatar maybe for what it achieved in terms of film although story-wise they are mediocre at best).
that jarjar was totally unneeded and lame young anakin who couldnt act at all
avatar
Orkhepaj: wonder what females will they put in to take the main roles from those white males ...
avatar
idbeholdME: It has already been confirmed that Isildur's sister (a completely made up character) will have a noticeable role in the series :)

Also, fully expect that there will be some "not evil, just misunderstood" Orc(s) or other evil creatures.
God, I really hate this trend. it's okay to have evil creatures. They don't need to be misunderstood or anything like that. Wasn't the theme of corruption fairly big throughout Tolkien's work?
avatar
+The Stranger+: God, I really hate this trend. it's okay to have evil creatures. They don't need to be misunderstood or anything like that. Wasn't the theme of corruption fairly big throughout Tolkien's work?
To be entirely fair (which I think is a must, otherwise any critique of ours would be worthless), Tolkien himself struggled "behind the scenes" with the "nature" of orcs and with the idea of a race being just "evil". With humans who served Morgoth and later Sauron it was always made very clear that they were not evil by nature, didn't belong to some "evil race" but had the misfortune of falling under the Dark Lord's influence, and followed his lies, his promises of power etc. The problem of orcs ("cannon fodder" the story required, as it were) all being just evil as a race troubled Tolkien to such a degree that he considered even making them machines rather than living beings (in some early versions of some stories like the Fall of Gondolin some creatures of Morgoth are described as machines, or machine-like) but ultimately such elements just didn't work for his legendarium.

Ultimately the orcs absolutely are in a way victims of Melkor as much as they are his servants. Funny as it may be, the "where there's a whip" scene from the animated Return of the King kinda gets it right when they sing "we don't wanna go to war today, but the Lord of the Lash says nay, nay, nay". So showcasing that somehow in itself I don't think would be entirely wrong. It would just have to be done with subtlety I don't expect from the show's writers, and it should absolutely not be used as any current political allegory. "I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations" Tolkien himself said, and that should be the motto for anyone who dares to write under his banner.
Post edited January 07, 2022 by Breja
avatar
+The Stranger+: God, I really hate this trend. it's okay to have evil creatures. They don't need to be misunderstood or anything like that. Wasn't the theme of corruption fairly big throughout Tolkien's work?
avatar
Breja: To be entirely fair (which I think is a must, otherwise any critique of ours would be worthless), Tolkien himself struggled "behind the scenes" with the "nature" of orcs and with the idea of a race being just "evil". With humans who served Morgoth and later Sauron it was always made very clear that they were not evil by nature, didn't belong to some "evil race" but had the misfortune of falling under the Dark Lord's influence, and followed his lies, his promises of power etc. The problem of orcs ("cannon fodder" the story required, as it were) all being just evil as a race troubled Tolkien to such a degree that he considered even making them machines rather than living beings (in some early versions of some stories like the Fall of Gondolin some creatures of Morgoth are described as machines, or machine-like) but ultimately such elements just didn't work for his legendarium.

Ultimately the orcs absolutely are in a way victims of Melkor as much as they are his servants. Funny as it may be, the "where there's a whip" scene from the animated Return of the King kinda gets it right when they sing "we don't wanna go to war today, but the Lord of the Lash says nay, nay, nay". So showcasing that somehow in itself I don't think would be entirely wrong. It would just have to be done with subtlety I don't expect from the show's writers, and it should absolutely not be used as any current political allegory. "I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations" Tolkien himself said, and that should be the motto for anyone who dares to write under his banner.
This is true. I vaguely remember something about him toying with the idea of them being corrupted elves, but not liking the idea in the end. He didn't like them being irredeemably evil because it conflicted with his own beliefs.

I do love that song from the animated film, though. That whole film was just awesome!
avatar
+The Stranger+: This is true. I vaguely remember something about him toying with the idea of them being corrupted elves, but not liking the idea in the end.
It's mentioned in the Silmarillion but essentialy as a "Some say that..." kind of rumor. So it's not set in stone but is mentioned in canon. I think it was left in because it has the benefit of sort "circumventing" having an irredibably evil race, because even if the orcs are all evil, it's becuase of what was done to them rather than some inherent trait of their own.
Post edited January 07, 2022 by Breja
avatar
Breja: Cameron may be Terminator's original creator, but he hasn't done anything actually good since... True Lies in 1994?
You think that Titanic and Avatar aren't as good as True Lies?
avatar
Breja: Cameron may be Terminator's original creator, but he hasn't done anything actually good since... True Lies in 1994?
avatar
LootHunter: You think that Titanic and Avatar aren't as good as True Lies?
I think Titanic is a horrendous, ungodly boring and trite piece of crap, and Avatar is an overlong, cliched, unoriginal and soulles film sold only on special effects and novelty of 3D technology that was only ever annoying and pointless. So yeah, an unremarkable but fun action comedy blows them out of the water, as does pretty much any movie that's in any way entertaining.
Post edited January 07, 2022 by Breja
avatar
Tokyo_Bunny_8990: I do think the Watchowskis basically got arm twisted into making the sequel as a its going to be done with or without you sort of thing so they didnt really want to.
avatar
LootHunter: You think that Titanic and Avatar aren't as good as True Lies?
avatar
Breja: I think TItanic is a horrendous, ungodly boring and trite piece of crap, and Avatar is an overlong, cliched, unoriginal and soulles film sold only on special effects and novelty of 3D technology that was only ever annoying and pointless.
And True Lies was a shoddy remake, lacking the finesse of the French original. So, yeah - I guess we disagree on the topic of Cameron's movies.
Post edited January 07, 2022 by LootHunter
avatar
idbeholdME: It has already been confirmed that Isildur's sister (a completely made up character) will have a noticeable role in the series :)

Also, fully expect that there will be some "not evil, just misunderstood" Orc(s) or other evil creatures.
avatar
+The Stranger+: God, I really hate this trend. it's okay to have evil creatures. They don't need to be misunderstood or anything like that. Wasn't the theme of corruption fairly big throughout Tolkien's work?
this is how i feel exactly, creatures with the blight ain't bad they just ill and misunderstood
The Architect is prove of this he is a fine lad..
Post edited January 07, 2022 by Abishia
It will be a superficial version of it, not made for actual fans of the books.
People who don't really care about the books but enjoyed the movies might like the series.

I draw parallelles with the Netflix Witcher series, where they pretty much removed the Polish/slavic elements in favour of Hollywood's americanization. So like the Witcher show it will be a "cleaned-up" generic interpretation, a soulles thing. My expectations are low for it staying true to the source material.

I don't get why Hollywood has to remake or reinterpret everything classic. Sure, it's always been done, but not at this scale.
Hollywood today is filled to the brim with opinionated but unskilled and lazy writers, so that's one explanation.
The other, is that they are trying to rewrite history in a sense, by forcing these classics to become something they were not. They are trying to take ownership of these classic works and shape them into their own propaganda tool.
The problem for them, is that there are no good writers in Hollywood anymore, so what they create is mostly crap.
Post edited January 07, 2022 by 72_hour_Richard
avatar
teceem: Aliens, The Abyss, Terminator 2

Just my taste/opinion, of course. I haven't seen any of the documentaries that he directed.
avatar
Orkhepaj: what about those blue people ?
Avatar was OK, nothing more, nothing less. A bit too much "style" (action) over substance to my liking.
avatar
72_hour_Richard: I draw parallelles with the Netflix Witcher series, where they pretty much removed the Polish/slavic elements in favour of Hollywood's americanization.
As well as removed any indication that evles are racist pricks, maiking them just innocent victims and human slaves. Because, if you are a minority, you can't be racist and do anything morally wrong.
avatar
72_hour_Richard: Hollywood today is filled to the brim with opinionated but unskilled and lazy writers, so that's one explanation.
The other, is that they are trying to rewrite history in a sense, by forcing these classics to become something they were not. They are trying to take ownership of these classic works and shape them into their own propaganda tool.
Actually, those are two parts of the same thing. Because writers are lazy and lack talent, they can't create anything new, so they strive to take ownership of classics.
Post edited January 08, 2022 by LootHunter
Short Answear: Yes

Long Answear: Well, they have been trying to push social politics into the story, they are adapting loose tales from an anthology that are barely connected between themselves into a long narrative, they are putting nudity and sex because Game of Thrones did it, and lets not forget that this is another pre-stablished franchise with a succesful story, so they are definately going to milk the crap out of it.
My philosophy on it is this: I will wait and see for myself. Similar complaints were being made about the Witcher Netflix series while it was in production and I ended up really enjoying it and I didn't really spot too many of the pre-release rumors anyways.

In general, while I'm very skeptical of it due to some things I've heard, I'll still wait to see and judge it for myself rather than just writing it off before we even have access to it.

Besides, it's not like I give Amazon a penny for Prime membership anyways due to the (seemingly) unlimited free trials.
avatar
Lord_of_D: Short Answear: Yes

Long Answear: Well, they have been trying to push social politics into the story
Well, considering that the show takes place during the Numenorean times, I think it's almost guaranteed that the Numenoreans will be portrayed as the evil European imperialist power oppressing the non-white Eastern Haradrim etc, and the Numenoreans will become increasingly more evil after they capture Sauron and slowly move toward Morgoth worship.