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Magmarock: See the main thing that made me start the this thread (though admittedly I could've worded it better) wasn't to ask why people use Linux of Windows. It was why GOG subscribers use Linux over Windows. With my experience with Linux I found it to be very "Net Dependent" more so then Windows. Windows needs internet for activation which I wish it didn't. But managing the OS offline was a lot easier for me then managing Linux. I don't like the way dependencies or package managers are organized or work; for any of the distributions that I used. It's pretty easy and straight forward when you've got direct internet access but trying to run an isolated air gaped system was a massive pain :O
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RafiLinux: That is extremely odd because Linux is not net dependent. I work for a small IT firm helping charter schools, non-profits and small businesses get up and running with Linux.

Some of the schools have computer classes that have no internet access and it's pretty easy to get isolated rig up and moving. I usually install LAN based games like Xonotic and others for recreation room stuff. This is my 14th year with the company using Linux in this fashion and it's been golden.

Then you have distros designed to be offline like Endless OS.
Okay well how do you drives, programs and dependencies in your system from the repository on an offline system?
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Magmarock: Okay well how do you drives, programs and dependencies in your system from the repository on an offline system?
Are you asking for does a system function while being online? Easily. Install a distro like Ubuntu Mate offline and it will function.

LTS systems especially are great for this.
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Magmarock: Okay well how do you drives, programs and dependencies in your system from the repository on an offline system?
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RafiLinux: Are you asking for does a system function while being online? Easily. Install a distro like Ubuntu Mate offline and it will function.

LTS systems especially are great for this.
Sorry for the bad gramma (I must have been tired) Without direct internet access I wasn't able to connect the the system repository. With that I wasn't able to install all the software needed to make the OS work. OS's I used were Mint, Ubuntu Manjaro and Fedora
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Magmarock: Without direct internet access I wasn't able to connect the the system repository. With that I wasn't able to install all the software needed to make the OS work.
Genius! Genius! Genius!

Sorry, I could not resist that. :)

What you said is basically "Without Internet access I was not able to connect to the Internet and download the software."

Please, enlighten me how are you coping with the need of the Internet connection on the certain other OS. Do you purchase only bootleg CDs with cracked installers on them (something like "Gold Soft 2005")? Or are you using dove post to get your installers on USB-sticks?

I'm generally curious now with all the BS regarding even Collectible Box versions of games being only Steam™ keys printed on a scrap of paper and put in a box.

At least on Linux we have Debian with its full collection of CDs/DVDs which can be added as local repositories.
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Alm888: Please, enlighten me
step 1 go online from any machine

step 2 download exe or msi file

step 3 save to USB


that's it. None of my computers actually have CD drives because CD's have gone the way of the floppy.
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Magmarock: step 1 go online from any machine
OK.
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Magmarock: step 2 download exe or msi file
Here you go.
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Magmarock: step 3 save to USB
OK. Step 4, I suppose, will be "attach the USB to your pidgeon's leg and send it home". :)
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Magmarock: None of my computers actually have CD drives because CD's have gone the way of the floppy.
And none of them have the Internet connection to boot, I suppose. That's fine. Definitely improves security. :)
But that does not prevent Linux from installing offline (well, most of the time. I'm looking at you, Antergos!).
In fact, you can even install programs in a "Windows-way", like that or that, or even drivers without any package manager at all.

The sad irony is that now Linux is more "windows than Windows™ itself" with all that "Microsoft Store" and "Windows 10 S" stuff. :)
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Alm888: Here you go.
Link is broken. (working now)
You expect me or anyone to actually use this?

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Alm888: OK. Step 4, I suppose, will be "attach the USB to your pidgeon's leg and send it home". :)
No I just plug it into the air gaped computer and save it's contents to my archive.

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Magmarock: None of my computers actually have CD drives because CD's have gone the way of the floppy.
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Alm888: And none of them have the Internet connection to boot, I suppose. That's fine. Definitely improves security. :)
FAST TOO! Without browsers, antivirus, clients, dropbox or other online apps the computer boots and shuts down faster then you can blink. Also games launch and close super fast. It never slows down. Ever.

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Alm888: But that does not prevent Linux from installing offline.
I’ve ran into numinous distros that won’t even go into an offline system. Even so, obtaining updates and dependencies for programs is much harder on Linux. Also even once you get them, they tend to deprecate so there’s no point in archiving them.

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Alm888: In fact, you can even install programs in a "Windows-way", like that or that, or even drivers without any package manager at all.
1. What would an offline system need a web browser for? Also that site isn’t even in English. ALSO, also I can’t find a link to the Linux installer.

2. Don’t care for Blender

3. Install Nvidia Linux drivers from… the… website… You’ve never actually tried this have you? :P

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Alm888: The sad irony is that now Linux is more "windows than Windows™ itself" with all that "Microsoft Store" and "Windows 10 S" stuff. :)
You think that makes me happy? I removed all that Windows store BS from my OS and thinking that the idea came from the Linux world, makes me hate it all the more. Windows 7 was where it was at. I’m hoping they’ll out grow this “online service” nonsense and go back to how things were when everything worked.
Post edited July 21, 2018 by Magmarock
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Alm888: Please, enlighten me
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Magmarock: step 1 go online from any machine

step 2 download exe or msi file

step 3 save to USB

that's it. None of my computers actually have CD drives because CD's have gone the way of the floppy.
So you are burning the .iso file of the distro you like - for example Linux Mint, correct?

Just download the deb files of the things you want. I'm trying to understand your issue but I don't see it.

I have an offline LAN setup (Lubuntu but it works the same as Mint) in my basement with 8 desktops, 4 raspberry pis and 2 MAME arcade cabinets - after installation, I have no need to go online and get my game on - outside of downloading the games (which I already have ready to roll on my NAS or via USB). I can have them online for the initial install and install the recommended drivers and call it a day.
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Alm888: Here you go.
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Magmarock: Link is broken. (working now)
You expect me or anyone to actually use this?
To use or not to use is your call. I don't care. But it is definitely possible to download packages from different machine and install them locally.
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Magmarock: I’ve ran into numinous distros that won’t even go into an offline system.
And I ran into a Windows system that refused to log in to administrator account without connection to Microsoft's sites for authentication. (Windows 8 it was, I believe) ;)
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Magmarock: Even so, obtaining updates and dependencies for programs is much harder on Linux. Also even once you get them, they tend to deprecate so there’s no point in archiving them.
It sure is harder than to browse multiple torrent trackers for new versions (or updates) without viruses or trying to download something from garbage dumpsters like Rapidshare without paying or sendind SMSes.
Oh, and if you want to stay legal then I have bad (not so) news for you: licensed software either do not provide updates, like "MS Office" (where you have to purchase every single new version) or is doing that via the Internet connected (like Adobe's Flash, Acrobat Reader, Oracle's Java Runtime and so on) updaters, which you seem to loathe so much.
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Magmarock: 1. What would an offline system need a web browser for?
To read offline HTML pages (or the whole sites) downloaded with wget.
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Magmarock: Also that site isn’t even in English.
Irrelevant. It is official site. Just change the language to your's (whatever it is) at the bottom of the page. But I suppose I'm in no position to teach a Windows-profi how to work with Internet Explorer. :)
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Magmarock: ALSO, also I can’t find a link to the Linux installer.
Because you are not on Linux. By default the site tries to offer you the version matching your OS. Just choose "Advanced install options & other platforms" (or disable browser scripts with NoScript or other similar plugin).
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Magmarock: 2. Don’t care for Blender
Irrelevant. That was an example. If you'll say "I don't care for XXX" for every XXX I point you to it will boil down to "I can not download Photoshop (the only thing I care) so Linux suuuuxxx!"
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Magmarock: 3. Install Nvidia Linux drivers from… the… website… You’ve never actually tried this have you? :P
Wrong. I've done just that many times for many years (and was criticized for that). For now I'm still holding myself from doing that with my current install but I do not know for how much longer considering nVidia have just released new drivers but they still nowhere to be found in the repos.
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Magmarock: You think that makes me happy? I removed all that Windows store BS from my OS and thinking that the idea came from the Linux world, makes me hate it all the more.
So, you didn't hear about Apple App Store, did you?
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Magmarock: Windows 7 was where it was at. I’m hoping they’ll out grow this “online service” nonsense and go back to how things were when everything worked.
Like with the Philosophic Sh*t says about Windows™, "Sh*t happened, and you will work with (on) it!"
Hate the world as much as you can, "Windows 7" is dead, like "Windows XP" (my last Windows™) or "Windows 98 SE" (my first Windows™) and things will never be like they were. The decision had been made and you had no word in it.
The sad ending of your story is that hatred is the only thing you can experience.
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Alm888: Here you go.
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Magmarock: Link is broken. (working now)
You expect me or anyone to actually use this?

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Alm888: OK. Step 4, I suppose, will be "attach the USB to your pidgeon's leg and send it home". :)
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Magmarock: No I just plug it into the air gaped computer and save it's contents to my archive.

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Alm888: And none of them have the Internet connection to boot, I suppose. That's fine. Definitely improves security. :)
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Magmarock: FAST TOO! Without browsers, antivirus, clients, dropbox or other online apps the computer boots and shuts down faster then you can blink. Also games launch and close super fast. It never slows down. Ever.

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Alm888: But that does not prevent Linux from installing offline.
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Magmarock: I’ve ran into numinous distros that won’t even go into an offline system. Even so, obtaining updates and dependencies for programs is much harder on Linux. Also even once you get them, they tend to deprecate so there’s no point in archiving them.

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Alm888: In fact, you can even install programs in a "Windows-way", like that or that, or even drivers without any package manager at all.
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Magmarock: 1. What would an offline system need a web browser for? Also that site isn’t even in English. ALSO, also I can’t find a link to the Linux installer.

2. Don’t care for Blender

3. Install Nvidia Linux drivers from… the… website… You’ve never actually tried this have you? :P

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Alm888: The sad irony is that now Linux is more "windows than Windows™ itself" with all that "Microsoft Store" and "Windows 10 S" stuff. :)
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Magmarock: You think that makes me happy? I removed all that Windows store BS from my OS and thinking that the idea came from the Linux world, makes me hate it all the more. Windows 7 was where it was at. I’m hoping they’ll out grow this “online service” nonsense and go back to how things were when everything worked.
Thank Youสมัครufabet[/size]:d
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Alm888: To use or not to use is your call. I don't care. But it is definitely possible to download packages from different machine and install them locally.
Not really an example I'd be willing to go with.

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Alm888: It sure is harder than to browse multiple torrent trackers for new versions (or updates) without viruses or trying to download something from garbage dumpsters like Rapidshare without paying or sendind SMSes.
What the hell are you talking about. You do know that MS has their own website for updates right. It's only for really old stuff that you need to look else ware and most IT specialist are safe and provide access to the runtimes you need.

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Alm888: Oh, and if you want to stay legal then I have bad (not so) news for you: licensed software either do not provide updates, like "MS Office" (where you have to purchase every single new version) or is doing that via the Internet connected (like Adobe's Flash, Acrobat Reader, Oracle's Java Runtime and so on) updaters, which you seem to loathe so much.
Bullshit! you can get offline updates for almost every purchased program out there.

Updates for office 2003

Offline update for office 2016 Link

Microsoft update catalog

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Alm888: Wrong. I've done just that many times for many years (and was criticized for that). For now I'm still holding myself from doing that with my current install but I do not know for how much longer considering nVidia have just released new drivers but they still nowhere to be found in the repos.
PAH! noob. I can help you with that. Latest Nvidia Linux drivers

[url=https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa]https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa[/url]

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Alm888: So, you didn't hear about Apple App Store, did you?
No I don't use Apple. Why do Linux people keep talking to me about Apple.
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Magmarock: Windows 7 was where it was at.
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Alm888: Hate the world as much as you can, "Windows 7" is dead,
Hey, I’ve done a pretty good job at turning Win 10 into 7. Hell what am I saying… I’m paid to do it XDD

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Alm888: The sad ending of your story is that hatred is the only thing you can experience.
Hey how’s the library of video games you have. Oh wait I could get a pre-owned PS2 and still have access to more stuff (especially of it’s modded). They say quality is better then quantity but you don’t really have that either :P
Post edited July 21, 2018 by Magmarock
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Magmarock: PAH! noob. I can help you with that. Latest Nvidia Linux drivers
[url=https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa]https://launchpad.net/~graphics-drivers/+archive/ubuntu/ppa[/url]
LOL! :D
Someone who despises repositories tries to teach me how to use them!
Oh, and by the way, I don't use Ubuntu so your PPAs are meaningless to me (not to mention no system administrator will ever allow 3rd party unsigned repos containing system-critical software like kernel drivers on his/her OS).

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Alm888: So, you didn't hear about Apple App Store, did you?
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Magmarock: No I don't use Apple. Why do Linux people keep talking to me about Apple.
And it shows. Neither use, nor heard of, yet, without any real knowledge of the industry you are quick to deduce the culprit that envenomed your precious Windows with this sh*tty Store stuff! Of course it is Linux! :)

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Magmarock: Hey, I’ve done a pretty good job at turning Win 10 into 7. Hell what am I saying… I’m paid to do it XDD
So, the Mighty One, can you resurrect the Classic Theme from "Windows 9x - 7" without Aero, MetroUI, Tiles and with Classic Start menu, oh and kill UAC and forced auto-updates in the process?
Like I said, Windows 7 is dead and your only path is down the Microsoft's road of "Software as a Service", paid annual subscriptions, forced updates, Azure integration and "DirectX 12" limited to the newest version of the OS. Have fun! :D

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Magmarock: Hey how’s the library of video games you have. Oh wait I could get a pre-owned PS2 and still have access to more stuff (especially of it’s modded). They say quality is better then quantity but you don’t really have that either :P
I thought it all was about you, not me. :) But since you asked, then it would be rude of me to not answer. :)
Thank you, I'm feeling great, I have 80 games on GOG alone (most of which I didn't find any time to play yet :) ) and who knows how many hundreds at Humble Library (granted, they are smaller titles for the most part). Plus, my Windows-era games (I do have DVD drive in my PC) work fine with WINE.
I doubt you have that many games on your trusty PS2. :)

P.S. I also can get pre-owned PS2 and in my country it will be "chip-ed" with 99% probability. Consoles have nothing to do with PCs. It is funny to see how Windows™ loving gamer (PC MASTER RACE) runs out of arguments and appeals to consoles. :)

dependencies are both unique to each distribution and ever changing. This means that the files you’ve downloaded will only work with a very specific version of a very specific distribution.

Furthermore Linux has poor software backwards compatibility. This means that the dependencies and the software that needs them can lose functionality with future releases of the kernel. Case and point Remastersys, a program that is no longer supported thus you can no longer use it. The distributions no longer support it, and the dependencies needed to run it are no longer stored in repositories.
Nix can fix that.

Nix’s purely functional approach ensures that installing or upgrading one package cannot break other packages. This is because it won’t overwrite dependencies with newer versions that might cause breakage elsewhere. It allows you to roll back to previous versions, and ensures that no package is in an inconsistent state during an upgrade.
You can have multiple versions or variants of a package installed at the same time. This is especially important when different applications have dependencies on different versions of the same package — it prevents the “DLL hell”. Because of the hashing scheme, different versions of a package end up in different paths in the Nix store, so they don’t interfere with each other.

An important consequence is that operations like upgrading or uninstalling an application cannot break other applications, since these operations never “destructively” update or delete files that are used by other packages.
Post edited January 06, 2020 by rtentser
The only place you get attention is here complaining about Linux...


To answer your question though, Windows 10 isn't going to be around forever, and SOMETHING else needs to be there as a lifeboat. Between native games, Wine/Proton (which GOG should implement in Galaxy 2), and emulators, Linux is a decent place to play games as long as you're not supporting DRM'd AAA garbage.
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Magmarock: Furthermore Linux has poor software backwards compatibility. This means that the dependencies and the software that needs them can lose functionality with future releases of the kernel. Case and point Remastersys, a program that is no longer supported thus you can no longer use it. The distributions no longer support it, and the dependencies needed to run it are no longer stored in repositories.
Actually, software incompatibility is almost never the kernel's fault; the kernel actually has a "never break userspace" policy. In fact, it should be possible to run an ancient distro with a modern kernel, provided that your system can run the modern kernel (386 CPUs are not supported anymore, though 486 ones are still supported IIRC) and that the ancient system doesn't use the a.out binary format (and even that format, made obsolete as of the 1.2 kernel, was only made unusable in 5.1), provided the kernel configuration includes certain features that were made optional (like the uselib() syscall which modern systems don't use).
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Magmarock: Linux doesn’t have DRM
Linux certainly does have DRM; how else would games be able to perform fancy 3D effects?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Rendering_Manager

(Yes, that is perhaps an unfortunate choice of acronym.)
Post edited January 06, 2020 by dtgreene