Trilarion: If you want to read a nice example of propaganda pravda.ru is a very good source for it. However it's also enlightning. http://english.pravda.ru/world/ussr/12-11-2014/129014-ukraine_nato-0/

In there Vladimir Karasev from Luhansk explains his view of the world which can be summed up like this: Use of deadly violence is okay if I do it and wrong if anyone else is doing it. Expansion of the war towards other regions in Ukraine is inevitable. The people living there are on our side.

Because of such people more civilians will die and that makes them so dangerous. If you ever approve of violence to achieve your goals other than self defense than you willingly accept dead civilians and you inevitably start a war. Also acting in the name of the people has a long and bloody tradition. But it also tells us what is probably going to happen. The war will not only continue it may even be extended to larger areas and may become even worse.

Another very funny article in pravda is the article: "Will Germany attack Russia again?" (http://english.pravda.ru/world/europe/27-11-2014/129151-germany_russia-0/) whereas in the article it says that Germany ruled out any military intervention. The article is actually one of the better ones (because only things that actually happened are stated) but the headline is just crazy. Somebody must have taken drugs while writing it.

Another thing is that while the shooting down of the airplane MH-17 will probably never be clarified completely and anyway not everyone would believe in it whatever the outcome, there is now a report on different video material from these days. Sure, it could all be a big lie, but with the usage of different materials from different people (french reporters for example) there should be at least a bit of credibility. A summary can be found here: https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2014/11/08/origin-of-the-separatists-buk-a-bellingcat-investigation/

What seems to be clear is that at least one Russian military Buk system crossed the border to Ukraine at this time and also crossed back a few days later. Most probably it lost a missile during these days. The rest can probably be disputed. To me this is a strong hint that this was always a war of Russia against Ukraine and less of a civil war within Ukraine.

Gremlion: Lenta.ru - ranked 24 in Russia http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/lenta.ru

Trilarion: Problem is that they do not have an English version, so only for Russians.

Also lenta.ru seems to be taken over by Kremlin already.
http://en.rsf.org/russia-lenta-ru-website-is-latest-13-03-2014,45996.html

Gremlion: More photos of Kiev's battalion Azov
http://kievforum.org/showthread.php?t=53978&page=177

Gremlion: Igor Dodon said that his party plans to start the referendum about this.

Klumpen0815: Russians believing their states propaganda never cease to amaze me.

How they manage to block out even the simplest fact (=invasion) just shows how well this brainwashing still works.
Even Joseph Goebbels admired the Russian propaganda in his diary and it doesn't seem to have lost any effect even in the 21st century.

Klumpen0815: Russians believing their states propaganda never cease to amaze me.

How they manage to block out even the simplest fact (=invasion) just shows how well this brainwashing still works.
Even Joseph Goebbels admired the Russian propaganda in his diary and it doesn't seem to have lost any effect even in the 21st century.

Gremlion: Google Earth can show images of cars, and NATO satellites can't find ANY f-ing tank moving over border between Ukraine and Russia?
Or Russia sends naked soldiers... And nobody decides to desert to save their lives because they have no supplies?
Maybe they are supertrained kamikadze commandos... Why then they haven't capture Kiev by now? It lost 3 waves of mobilizations by now.

Gremlion: Linking to the "sources" which buried soccer team, Bushkov book heroes and parents of buryat students as "russian army"? Link to articles of Elena Vasileva too, she found more than 2000 killed russian soldiers without leaving her flat in Moscow too.
Or link to novayagazeta, which blames meteorites on Putin, they found thousands of killed paratroopers from Pskov.

Gremlion: Congrats on independence, BTW. I laughed over new Ukrainian law, which let foreigners to take posts in government.
Already got 2 US citizens and priebaltic one.
Puppeteers couldn't find enough at least halfbrained marionettes to work with in this genuine country.

joriandrake: If there is a high risk your politicians may be KGB agents, then it is a reasonable method to hire people from the EU to fill leading positions to reform the nation and purge corruption.

joriandrake: If there is a high risk your politicians may be KGB agents, then it is a reasonable method to hire people from the EU to fill leading positions to reform the nation and purge corruption.