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General discussionThe Wheel of Time books...(53 posts)(53 posts)
(53 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 22, 2021
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twillight: Well, WoT is confessed to be started as a LotR-fanfic, and "the writer was a fan of Dune" - so much so he ripped off the entire Bene-Geserit organisation (as the aes sedai), the entire fremen race (as the aiel), the whole Paul Atraides being gene-engineered/bred over eons to be the Quisatz Haderac/Muad-Dib...

Then there is the end-fight of Book 2, the chaos-created animal-men, the Three As One and more elements ripped off (used less talented of course) from Queen of Swords...

I don't remember what I catched from Earthsea... The name Atuan, Tombs of Atuan comes to my mind.

So ye, as much as WoT-cultists hate Terry Goodkind (who blatantly stole The Seeker of Truth thingamajg from WoT), RJ is equally guilty.

I wonder what RJ ripped off after Book 4...

Well, where to start this...

- the Main Villain (though certain group I hold more evil) is named SATAN.
- EVERYONE believes in the One True Gwad, The Good White Light (oh, ye, Satan has the Balck Light, throwing in same casual racism of the time), independently from religion or world-view
- there is a character called Belial, Ismael, Asmodeus...
- the core story of the series is that Gawd fights Satan (wether Gawd actualy exists in this universe or not), starting with the prologue, pushing the otherwise-would-be-protagonist to the sideline even...
- then there are the crusaders and their Inquisition...
- there is the arian-supremacy believing Light/Gawd-believeing christain-nationalists (aka. nazis), the sean-chans... On whom Book 4 is specificaly telling will survive and continue on at the end... Obviously because they are christians, thus "good".

It's not AS hamfisted with its message as Narnia, but hey, I'm only at 2/3rd of Book 4, so this can change. Narnia got worse too with every coming book, wh not this!
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Zimerius: Well if you put it like that i'm almost wondering if i read the same books as you did
Oh, I'm pretty sure you both read the same books. It's just twillight read them through intersectionality lense. I mean, one must have pretty skewed eyesight to read Satan instead of Shaitan just to make the name fit "christian overtones".
Posted June 22, 2021
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nightcraw1er.488: Anyways, I got to about book 4 and found out the writer had died at book 12 leaving it unfinished.
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WinterSnowfall: Death doesn't exactly send calendar invites, you know :P. In any case, the series was finished by Brandon Sanderson, in a rather questionable, but I guess not disastrous way. Apart from the final book, I'd say he did a good job of it.
That's true indeed about Death. Unless Death takes a holiday, maybe? :) Though while he (or she or maybe it?), may never send out any calendar invites, you can bet we've all got a date scheduled on their calendar lol.

If I do get one, I'll just say USPS lost it (if snail mail) or it must have gone into my spam folder (if email). Think Death will fall for it? =P

I'm glad they got to finish it though and I did worry if Brandon would be able do it justice. I also can't imagine, any series would be quite the same if another author finished the tale.

Funny thing is, I almost didn't read the series and it was the same for my brother if I hadn't told him the story picks up the pace after the brief slow start. The beginning part of Eye of the World was very slow to take off indeed and if I hadn't picked it back up a few days later, I may have never read the series or at least up to book 7 or 8. :)
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Posted June 22, 2021
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nightcraw1er.488: Yes, was a long time back, but 1 and 2 were ok, should have stopped at a trilogy. Anyways, I got to about book 4 and found out the writer had died at book 12 leaving it unfinished. I mean he could have just penned “and they all lived happily ever after!l. Reckon GRRMartin is hoping for the black abyss so he doesn’t have to finish the final book either.
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gog2002x: I personally got to about book 7 or 8, but the world, story and the number of new characters, just kept getting bigger and longer. I eventually gave up and I bought all the hardcover versions up until that point.

If the Kindle versions ever goes on discount, I may get them. So far, I was able to get the first 3 books when they went on sale. I would like to finish the tale, though a part of me dreads it lol.

There was an Aiel, one of female guards Rand had, that I always wondered what happened to her. I forgot her name, but in one scene she used her shield to parry an attack during the end battle with the Aiel guy posing as the false Dragon.

Then it seemed like she just disappeared. This is different than the ones that disappeared at Shadar Logoth later on.

For the life of me, I can't recall if she was ever mentioned after book 4 and that has always bothered me lol.
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The series is infamous for the many named character, so any reader: make notes.

Also, the writing is not undreadle or boring. It's just very much has the speed of the Zack Snyder Cut.

I'm not aginast the books, but I have hopes in the series to fix its problems. Like mash Book 3 into Book 1 and 2, so you spare time and give better pacing, proper character development, maybe decent level worldbuilding instead what those books are.
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Zimerius: Well if you put it like that i'm almost wondering if i read the same books as you did
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LootHunter: Oh, I'm pretty sure you both read the same books. It's just twillight read them through intersectionality lense. I mean, one must have pretty skewed eyesight to read Satan instead of Shaitan just to make the name fit "christian overtones".
Prepare for the Mountain of dHoom you cultist.
Post edited June 22, 2021 by twillight
Posted June 23, 2021
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twillight: The series is blatant plagarism of LotR
I wouldn't call it plagiarism, but the beginning of the series really is inspired by The Hobbit and LoTR. The same can be said about The Sword of Shannara. Tolkien's canon has influenced so many authors about how to setup their fantasy worlds and introducing the protagonists.

I enjoyed reading the first three tomes (so, the big books). I had a good time until I started reading the fourth, then things went downhill as far as I am concerned. I don't think I even finished reading the fifth book. It became way too boring for my taste.
Post edited June 23, 2021 by Cambrey
Posted June 23, 2021
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twillight: The series is blatant plagarism of LotR
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Cambrey: I wouldn't call it plagiarism, but the beginning of the series really is inspired by The Hobbit and LoTR. The same can be said about The Sword of Shannara. Tolkien's canon has influenced so many authors about how to setup their fantasy worlds and introducing the protagonists.

I enjoyed reading the first three tomes (so, the big books). I had a good time until I started reading the fourth, then things went downhill as far as I am concerned. I don't think I even finished reading the fifth book. It became way too boring for my taste.
completely agree with u
Posted June 23, 2021
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twillight: The series is blatant plagarism of LotR
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Cambrey: I wouldn't call it plagiarism, but the beginning of the series really is inspired by The Hobbit and LoTR. The same can be said about The Sword of Shannara. Tolkien's canon has influenced so many authors about how to setup their fantasy worlds and introducing the protagonists.
The Sword of Shannara is literally a (very poor) carbon copy of Lord of the Rings. Not just the setup - pretty much every character, place and plot point. It's actually quite remarkable how blatant it is. I almost have a weird respect for how ballsy it is about plagiarising Tolkien. It's so unapologetic about it not only didn't get sued, it apparently went on to be a big success. There's no way that should have worked, and yet it did. It's like someone who has no business being in a restricted area acting so confident about being there that no one questions it.
Post edited June 23, 2021 by Breja
Posted June 23, 2021
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WinterSnowfall: Technically, Shaitan or the dark one, but yes, it makes no quips in identifying it with the arch-demon we all know and "love" :P.
Ironically, Shaitan is a direct lift, just not from Christianity.

(Shaitan is a direct transliteration from arabic/ Islam)
Posted June 23, 2021
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Cambrey: I wouldn't call it plagiarism, but the beginning of the series really is inspired by The Hobbit and LoTR. The same can be said about The Sword of Shannara. Tolkien's canon has influenced so many authors about how to setup their fantasy worlds and introducing the protagonists.

I enjoyed reading the first three tomes (so, the big books). I had a good time until I started reading the fourth, then things went downhill as far as I am concerned. I don't think I even finished reading the fifth book. It became way too boring for my taste.
I actually liked book 4. :)

RJ was a talented author, but I think he got a bit carried away in making his world too expansive. If you lose your everyday reader of fantasy novels with too many twists and turns, well, he certainly lost me a few times.

We all like beginnings and endings. By the time I stopped, The Wheel of Time series just never seemed to end.

I'd have to agree about not counting it as plagiarism. So many stories released these days were inspired by previous works. Soon as I start reading a new series these days, I feel like I've read something so similar in the past.

There are certainly blatant uses of other people’s works and those authors apparently feel no shame. Until they get into a legal bind anyway. :)

But most authors just love writing and storytelling. I doubt they meant any intentional harm.

I see people bringing up LotR and there's no doubt it was an epic story. And I loved both the movies and the animated versions as well. It's not really surprising authors might borrow themes from it and other such well known works, since these very works are probably what inspired them to become authors.

But no matter how many similar stories come out, the classics will forever be etched into history. That will never be taken away and in fact, I think new stories that borrow ideas only help us to remember those classics all the more fondly.

Of course, this is just one person’s opinions and it's wonderful we all have different perspectives to share on the things we enjoy.
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Posted June 23, 2021
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gog2002x: Then it seemed like she just disappeared. This is different than the ones that disappeared at Shadar Logoth later on.

For the life of me, I can't recall if she was ever mentioned after book 4 and that has always bothered me lol.
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twillight: The series is infamous for the many named character, so any reader: make notes.

Also, the writing is not undreadle or boring. It's just very much has the speed of the Zack Snyder Cut.

I'm not aginast the books, but I have hopes in the series to fix its problems. Like mash Book 3 into Book 1 and 2, so you spare time and give better pacing, proper character development, maybe decent level worldbuilding instead what those books are.
THB, I usually clear my mind before reading a new book or I'll end up getting distracted from the immersion. Maybe after I read the book, I'd make the comparisons.

I probably read over a 1000 books, so a lot of names and character personalities tend to have something recognizable at some point. So, I may not be the best person to comment on that part.

Heck a lot of the RPGs for PC I play these days all have some familiarity or even a lot and yet I still crave them. I mean, how many DnD references have we seen in many of these games so far? Not just the rulesets, the common themes in many of the stories and quests. Reinventing the wheel completely can be tough I guess.

Being truly original must be a tough on the imagination. But there are people out there who actually do reinvent the wheel from time to time and sometimes we're lucky to experience their world. :)

I do agree his series could have been a little more condensed. I mean 14 books and 2 decades was a bit much. I wasn't even sure I'd be alive to finish it lol.
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Post edited June 23, 2021 by gog2002x
Posted June 23, 2021
I tried listening to the audiobook of the first book, but the reader had an American accent which ruined it for me. Audiobooks for high fantasy only work if the reader has at least a neutral accent, but best is a traditional English accent (this is what they did with Tolkien's audiobooks, all of them are english accents).

Medieval fantasy just doesn't sound right with American accents.
Post edited June 23, 2021 by Crosmando
Posted June 24, 2021
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twillight: Well, WoT is confessed to be started as a LotR-fanfic, and "the writer was a fan of Dune" - so much so he ripped off the entire Bene-Geserit organisation (as the aes sedai), the entire fremen race (as the aiel), the whole Paul Atraides being gene-engineered/bred over eons to be the Quisatz Haderac/Muad-Dib...

Then there is the end-fight of Book 2, the chaos-created animal-men, the Three As One and more elements ripped off (used less talented of course) from Queen of Swords...

I don't remember what I catched from Earthsea... The name Atuan, Tombs of Atuan comes to my mind.

So ye, as much as WoT-cultists hate Terry Goodkind (who blatantly stole The Seeker of Truth thingamajg from WoT), RJ is equally guilty.
There is no ripping off, that is completely silly. You are looking at all the elements far too shallowly.

Nothing in reality is ever totally unique, everything borrows from one or more things that have gone before.

It seems to me you would have a hard time enjoying anything with your approach.

Narnia was fabulous, so you are way off the money there too.

You don't just look at what might seem to be similar, you also look at what is different. You look at the overall effort.

It doesn't seem to me you have ever read any fanfic material, because if you had you would have discovered it is way different to what you are accusing Robert Jordan and others of.

But anyway, you are probably just being controversial to be controversial.

A good story is a good story. People who are over critical lead sad lives it seems to me ... they look for stuff to be unhappy about.

I probably shouldn't have let you suck me into this topic ... but hey some others might be misled by the nonsense.
Posted June 24, 2021
I've heard of the Wheel of Time quite often, but instead I went with Douglas Adams and Sir Terry Pratchett.
Posted June 25, 2021
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Darvond: I've heard of the Wheel of Time quite often, but instead I went with Douglas Adams and Sir Terry Pratchett.
I think I've read their works, though I don't recall the "Sir" part lol. If they are who I'm thinking of, then I've read their books and enjoyed them. Not the best memory these days for names, though once I start re-reading, it all comes back. :)

I used to read Conan books, and Jordan wrote a few of those, which is how I found out about his Wheel of Time series. BTW, before the Conan novels I used to read Savage Sword of Conan comics.

Who knew comics would lead me to enjoying novels. :)

The WoT series is a fun read, but I never got past book 7 or 8. It's hard to wait on releases for what seemed like decades lol. I was also shocked and saddened when he passed away and probably what stopped me from picking up where I left off later on.

If the Kindle versions go on sale, I'll buy it and so far, I have books 1 thru 3. I would love to finish it and It truly is an epic story.
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Post edited June 25, 2021 by gog2002x
Posted June 25, 2021
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Darvond: I've heard of the Wheel of Time quite often, but instead I went with Douglas Adams and Sir Terry Pratchett.
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gog2002x: I think I've read their works, though I don't recall the "Sir" part lol. If they are who I'm thinking of, then I've read their books and enjoyed them. Not the best memory these days for names, though once I start re-reading, it all comes back. :)

I used to read Conan books, and Jordan wrote a few of those, which is how I found out about his Wheel of Time series. BTW, before the Conan novels I used to read Savage Sword of Conan comics.

Who knew comics would lead me to enjoying novels. :)

The WoT series is a fun read, but I never got past book 7 or 8. It's hard to wait on releases for what seemed like decades lol. I was also shocked and saddened when he passed away and probably what stopped me from picking up where I left off later on.

If the Kindle versions go on sale, I'll buy it and so far, I have books 1 thru 3. I would love to finish it and It truly is an epic story.
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It’s definately “Sir” Terry Pratchet, both as he was honoured with an OBE, and just in general! Responsible for writing the Discworld novels (41 of them), plus numerous children’s novels.and Good Omens which was recently a TV series. Sad he is gone now.
Douglas Adams was Hitchhikers Guide to the galaxy amongst others, a good author.
Posted June 25, 2021
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nightcraw1er.488: It’s definately “Sir” Terry Pratchet, both as he was honoured with an OBE, and just in general! Responsible for writing the Discworld novels (41 of them), plus numerous children’s novels.and Good Omens which was recently a TV series. Sad he is gone now.
Douglas Adams was Hitchhikers Guide to the galaxy amongst others, a good author.
Thanks for the clarification. I'm just not good at remembering names. :)

I recall those novels, though I can't say I've read them or not. It's been way too long. I must have read something of theirs or I wouldn't feel nostalgia seeing their names here. :)
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General discussionThe Wheel of Time books...(53 posts)(53 posts)
(53 posts)