I object against the thread title having the words 'great' and 'Denuvo' next to each other ;-/

It's hard to tell since it's said to be deliberately hidden to try and hide the obvious performance impact of the same game being measured in a clear before vs after manner. Some games like Doom (2016) had a significant noticeable increase in performance / reduced stutter once Denuvo was removed. Others though have behaved exactly the same which is suspicious given how Denuvo works. Others still (Abzu, Sherlock Holmes: The Devil's Daughter, Mad Max) that claim to now be "DRM-Free" actually haven't removed it at all, they simply added a GOG option whilst leaving Denuvo enabled on Steam itself:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denuvo#List_of_games_formerly_using_Denuvo

Was that the Denuvo test where they compared the release version vs the denuvo cracked version that had several performance improvements patched in it? Why exactly is that suspicious given how it works? If anything from what I've read Denuvo impacts on moments, not continuous performance. A good example is the DLC implementation in Injustice 2 where Denuvo triggers during certain moves the characters make (and apparently affects performance there, even more so for the cracked version because the patch causes extra slowdown but also some for the legit users). That's a bad implementation of it. Mad max ran like a dream even with Denuvo so it probably didn't gain much on that front, though for longevity it's good.

From various crack notes as mentioned previously. Some games have literally millions of triggers accumulated in just 30mins play (over 1,100 triggers per second). Even when it's "properly" implement in "moments", it still adds a lot to startup / save / level load times. This is no less a deprecation of performance / annoying to play than an fps drop or increased micro-stutter even if most people claiming to "not see any difference" don't measure such things.

And for every positive example, there are negatives:-
https://www.dsogaming.com/articles/report-the-pirated-version-of-final-fantasy-xv-runs-faster-better-than-the-steam-version

https://techraptor.net/content/tekken-producer-says-denuvo-behind-recent-performance-issues-on-pc

https://www.dsogaming.com/news/rumour-denuvo-causes-30-40-additional-cpu-usage-assassins-creed-origins

That was one game if I'm not mistaken and they absolutely fucked up that implementation. Ryme or something I think? Depends what it is. Startup loadtime I'd honestly not be bothered by. Not denying there aren't negatives (like Ryme and Injustice 2) but Durante did an indepth Denuvo comparison for FFXV after that and that guy is infamous for his performance mods (like DSfix for Dark souls) and he found there was no fps impact on FFXV, only some impacted loading times
https://www.pcgamer.com/denuvo-drm-performance-final-fantasy-15/

The AC thing is a rumour like the title itself says.

The Tekken thing is a good example and seems to be the same horrible implementation they used for Injustice. What possesses them to use Denuvo triggers in fighting games during some special moves is beyond me.

The only thing I can imagine is that, if it had *not* impacted legit buyers, but patching it *would* impact pirates (which it does because the crackers said patching it caused extra slowdown in Injustice 2), then it would've been rather ingenious because it would cause worse performance for pirates. Which, I guess is still the case now as well but that's still inexcusable if it affects people who bought the game at crucial moments during high impact gameplay.

Not just a rumor. A more in-depth post was made elsewhere demonstrating what chunks of code were using what with debugging tools. It's also common sense - on top of the virtualization, Denuvo + VMProtect include "obfuscation" where a load of literal junk instructions are added around the protection that do nothing but act as "filler" to try and hide it better. If Denuvo can magically add millions / hundreds of thousands more cycles and end up with +0% CPU load, then it sounds like they'd be better off selling their magical new brand of test CPU's which somehow manage to defy the laws of physics... ;-)

As said before, it's not a continuous thing, they're checks, just like you mentioned with Ryme (who did it in a ridiculous way) and just like it's mentioned with Tekken/Injustice, it makes no sense for there to be continuous increased CPU load because of Denuvo because it's simply not active continuously. What matters is the implementation, how and where they are done. Besides, since when did an AC game need any excuse to have a horrible CPU load?

That's correct, unfortunatly too many games filled with the anti-tamper doesn't have it correctly implemented.

Plus you have to deal with thrid party server (outside the valve's ones) to check if you have a legitimate copy. History repeat itself....AAA publishers doesn't learn ....

And i don't understand why some publishers leave the anti-tamper in some games on Steam, and deliver a product free of it on GOG @_@ (well at least customers have a store where to get it free from it) ...but it doesn't have any sense.

=> see Sherlock Holmes : The Devil's Daughter & ABZU (sure that's not the best games out, but still)

Anyway having to gamble with a correct implementation is a no go in my book.

That's a fair and understandable position.

And for once customers it seems have won a battle, SEGA wanted to fill Denuvo in Shenmue I+II :and there's a rumor about they attempted & removed it, because those games where too old and porobably will have totaly broken those games

SteamDB mentions Denivo has been removed before launch....not the reason ofc.

So, i don't want to disapoint the original poster, but i won't trust blindly SEGA about this move...

I wait to see if they don't attempt to push it in a future game version .... before to get it...

I hate digital locks on any device from games to music to cars to electronics.. Anything that blocks me from enjoying the product or even restricting me from trying to tweak it or mod it I despise. Almost every company uses some nonsense excuse to justify a way to force digital locks. Sad times for creative minds.

False advertising, isn't it? This thread didn't turn out nearly as great as the title suggests.

:(

In other Sega - Denuvo related news - Two Point Hospital launched with Denuvo 5 days ago (and was cracked before release). It has just been removed in a beta branch. This is encouraging. But I think it should be mentioned that most Sega games with Denuvo allowed a legitimate way of bypassing it - the Linux version. So Sega wasn't as strict about it as other publishers to begin with.

It happened i believe for Life is Strange games too , the third one is protected by it, and the game isn't out yet.

I'm sure about the last two, i follow a curator, because this information isn't always on the stora page...

On another level :

I really wish Square does an effort....

Rise of Tomb Raider & ,the last Deus Ex,...are still protected by the Anti-Tamper serves no purpose except to annoy the customer. ....sigh...

The only good move they did : the devs of the previous Hitman, have their hands on the game...which allowed to them to remove the crap from the game.

Iirc, devs of any game, have a build without it inside (well, i hope for them) ; so when i read, it needs some works this is just bullshit.