What leaders?! though like some I prefer TES III's more cerebral style versus the "that-a-way" approach that later TES's use.
so yes we have standards like a mathematician looking for a challenge & only being given elementary school level problems to solve. I'm not saying us gamers are perfect but not everyone is sleeping with everyone else's mother and look at the demographics of those individual spewing in those matches.

let me ask you this, should ALL books, shows, music & movies cater to everyone? If "NO" why should ALL games? If "Yes" Wouldn't that lead to a bland media

And Ryan, maybe you can keep quoting feminist journalists working for Fox News to disprove papers by actual economists...
Surely, someone who has spend her life writing media stories about stocks and the stock market and wrote a book about an early female mystic who she portrays as one of the first feminists, is so eminently qualified to critique think tank studies commissioned by the Department of Labor.

How about you cite sources that have some kind of legitimate qualifications and aren't just talking heads?

Try not to worry about it. Your position on the political spectrum probably hasn't changed very much. The only difference is that for some reason the authoritarian left has grabbed the megaphone. The biggest difference between yourself and the SJW in general is that they are authoritarian where as you are likely libertarian. In other words it is not a left vs right political battle, it is an authoritarian vs libertarian battle.

I'm like you I consider myself to be a liberal, but find I have very little in common with the SJW mindset. I reject identity politics, I believe that any regulations about "culture" be minimal (like no child porn) and that you don't fight injustice with more injustice.

I do have to thank the SJW's for one thing. It used to be that if I heard "don't listen to him because" he's a conservative, or a MRA, or a sexist, etc... I would't listen to them. Now I try to give everyone a chance to speak and I try to judge them based upon their words.

Same here. I guess most of us are neither left leaning nor right lanong. We are just tired f this crap.

Looking at this thread again after a while, I notice that you guys let yourself get baited to talk about anything else than corruption in gaming journalism for a few pages. Don't you notice that it's exactly the point? Attacking and manipulating credibility is the modus operandi of your opponents and @RWarehall: every time you use words like "stupid" or "troll" you sacrifice not only your own credibility but also the one from people that share your opinion, because association is quite important for many people for some reason.
Ryan has already stated, that he is white upper class, just like 99% of the people you'd call "sjw" - btw, this concept of the enemy shouldn't be used anymore, since it leads to guilt by association in the long run.
Notice how he ignored all posts about corruption in the last pages and just attacked your credibility? And he was quite successful from a certain perspective too since he knows the game that is forced upon everyone better than you.
When I was young, the children of white upper class whose subconscious told them, that they have it too easy mostly started working for Greenpeace, went to third world countries to give humanitarian aid, etc... now I see them arguing in the Internet, that others should be less well off without knowing those. They don't see, that the reason why they are so well off although being quite lazy is not what they are, but where they come from.
This class is a completely seperate community of people for which hardship and diversity are completely theoretical and where racism and sexism does exist indeed and since they are raised in a conservative/authoritarian way but want to be modern, fresh and "progressive", they apply what they have learned in matters that would rather need libertarian people with more contact to the hard reality outside of campus and suburbs. Yes, men have it easier in the small upper class while they have it worse anywhere below and people living in either world can't believe the others.
My very big family fled their now non-existent home country when I was still very young and I've experienced life as a refugee and worked my way up from living in a stairway to a tiny self-financed 29m² apartment of my own and am still working to rise further but misandric sexism induced by this upper class (which has the misoginy they claim to see everywhere) was a real problem all the time and without it, it would have been much easier. Fact is, that just like children nobody wants to see women suffer, but many people in high positions don't want to see them have too much responsibility either, maybe because responsibility isn't as mandatory for sheer survival for women as it is for men in the western world. This results in the upper class spreading sexism below where it was barely existent anymore and ignoring where it's actually happening since conservatives/authoritarians don't really want anything to change for themselves.

Well at least something good has come out of this. Maybe more people realize, that in the end it's about the message and not the messanger, maybe this will lead to the end of the terms "gamergater" and "sjw" too sometime.

Now I can only advise you guys to stop this gender war game, ignore people that are shoving it down your throats from above and get back to other matters, since most of you seem to mean well.

In the end, it's never really about "men vs. women" or "left vs. right" but rather about "above vs. below" and "authoritarian vs. libertarian" indeed and since your average gaming journalist is rather part of the upper class, they know how those manipulation games work, so you'll either have to try to learn the rules without being corrupted yourselves or ignore it.

Anyway, go on if you want.

The majority of us want to make the world a better place, but in the process employ methods that may hurt others.

I wonder what is the best method of making the world a better place?

"Hug Klumpen0815"

Then let me put it this way...
You...and others here have basically given Ryan a free pass to "troll" this thread and throw insults at all of us here. For the last two weeks he has been insulting all of us from the point he jumped back in the thread to call everyone Truthers and conspiracy theorists. Only when I finally start seriously calling him out on it, has he actually given anything that even qualifies as responsive. He's at least linked two articles. Poor articles with a feminist bent, but articles nonetheless. The first time he has actually sort of engaged in an actual discussion in the entire two weeks he's been harassing us with his slurs in this thread.

Personally, I'll take that over his usual tactics of linking nothing, calling all of us names and switching the subject to something else to call us all more names every day. At least we have something concrete to debunk instead of trying to defend his random claims of conspiracy theories and misogyny. To me, sometimes you have to call a troll a troll and hope he chooses to engage in an actual and fruitful discussion. The second part we have yet to see, but the door is open if he wants to actually discuss real issues...

As to "distracting us from ethics in game journalism", that is very narrow. Right now the bigger issue is ethics in journalism in general. When this all started, it wasn't all JUST game journalism. The Guardian posted one of the earliest one-sided articles by Jenn Frank who defended Zoe Quinn and Anita Saarkesian and blamed it all on the gaming community. The Boston Globe gave Brianna Wu a full page opinion column where she spewed her one-sided accusations. Many other "main stream" media sources have printed articles of similar one-sided nature. The fact that so many media outlets can overlook the truth, for example, that Anita Saarkesian received rape threats from just a single anonymous Twitter account (not even linked to the hashtag) and yet all of Gamergate gets blamed.

I personally don't think the "gender wage gap" is that far off topic. This is an issue, in various forms, has been pushed in the mainstream media since the 70's. It's an issue that social justice warriors have managed to push repeatedly into the spotlight despite the rather obvious shortcomings in their interpretation of the facts. That media standards have degraded to the point that so many publications don't even fact-check their articles any more and are open to the race and gender-baiting of the "offended police". This situation, how these biased articles get propagated throughout the media, directly mirrors what has happened with Gamergate. That the actual facts are ignored in favor of a better story (narrative).

RWarehall
Except here is the thing about the wage gap. It isn't a law of physics.It's not a scientific phenomenon. It's a sociological and economic phenomenon that varies from culture to culture. And when you take out stuff like workplace discrimination or unexplained factors that aren't easily measured of course the CONSAD report is going to turn out the way it does.

Rusty_Gunn
To answer your question, it is impossible for every form of media to please everyone. So my answer is no, but the fact of the matter is that games as I said before are no longer a niche. The market as expanded to include mobile, games, and indie games that range from so called "walking simulators" to retro style games and a new breed of adventure games. You don't have to turn to AAA games to get an exciting experience.

You lean too far to the left or the right you end up basically the same place. That's why anarcho-capitalism is the best way to go. It offers a simple solution to pretty much any single form of public/private social contract... that is, you only make ones that offer mutual gain created by voluntary agreements between intelligent, consenting adults. You know, kinda like sex.

READ. If you'd read the studies, not a single one of them shows workplace discrimination. Anyone claiming that is being totally dishonest. LOOK at the video posted by Christina Hoff Sommers. READ the other posts and links on the issue. READ your own links where even your feminist buddy had to admit that most of the wage gap has nothing to do with discrimination and can be explained by other factors.

These studies and analysis all quantified what COULD be easily explained and showed that if there is a gap it is definitely no more 3-6 cents in the United States. This makes it completely disingenuous that anyone use an inflated figure such as 77 cents to represent the wage gap. And even this 3-6 cents that has as yet to be statistically accounted for is not all discrimination, because there are other factors unaccounted for.

Furthermore, no one took workplace discrimination out of the number. For someone who admits to not working yet, you sure act like you know so much about working. And even your favorite feminist you linked has had her points completely torn apart. Your economist claims economists agree 40% of the wage gap is discrimination if you actually read, remember....

She's wrong and can't even read her own sources...because only one economist made that claim and in her own paper even says discrimination isn't really 40% of the number. She explains that 60% is easily accounted for and 40% of that gap is left for discrimination and other factors. You'll hate the source of the rebuttal, but the words seem true.

http://honeybadgerbrigade.com/2014/08/13/myth-busting-myth-busting-the-pay-gap-infographic-article/

Frankly, you just don't seem to get it at all. This discrimination you think is there just isn't and EVERY reputable economist agrees that workplace discrimination is, if it exists more for women than men, a very small part of that figure.

The problem is you do not do your homework. You make spacious claims that are just completely untrue. Would it surprise you that even with the 77 cents figure it is pointed out that men work far more hours than women? That this figure doesn't even try to account for that? But here, we have the "great unemployed Ryan" telling everyone how much he knows about workplace discrimination....

Additionally, when were you even born Ryan? Because you know that 77 cents figure that keeps getting thrown around...is a figure about employment in 1999...

There's so much wrong with that first statement, it makes my head hurt. The clubhouse was NEVER not nice to outsiders. It was not nice to parasites and culture vultures attempting to co opt something they never contributed to in the first place, in order to feel some sort of relevance in a culture that was being built from the ground up by a bunch of people who already felt denigrated and largely "outside" other cultural norms.

As a gamer that grew up in the arcades, which were largely friendly to ALL people (many games were intentionally targeted towards girls and women back then, like Pac-Man and Centipede, in order to make them feel more included, and it largely worked as well.) Sierra was founded and lead by prominent industry women and pioneered the way for more of them to get involved in creation of their own games. (King's Quest, Gabriel Knight, Phantasmagoria, etc.)

Historically, gaming has been more inclusive than a lot of other pop cultures that spring up around other enthusiast hobbies. We are in an age where our own industry "journalists" have become culture vultures and parasites as well, and the more people realize this on their own, the more the push back has grown. They want to craft this narrative using redefined words and pseudo intellectual jargon, but let's get serious for a moment. Most of us just want to play games. All games. Without some politically correct dickweed or fat neon haired hipster wringing their hands over what we do and don't like.

There's games I don't like. You'll never hear me say they shouldn't exist. As a mature adult, I can recognize that they are not for me and I move along. It is a sign of a close minded neo facist that believes any game that does not agree with their morals or personal views should be banned or to put it into terms some mental masturbatory social facism parasite can understand: "strongly dissuaded and given thinly veiled threats towards potential livelihood to not exist or be changed into something completely unrecognizable from original intent."

Fuck all that. If you wanna play games, play games and stop caring about what I enjoy in my spare time, or how I talk trash to my friends, both male and female, who talk equal amounts of it, because we're all competitive and we're all good natured and fun loving people with *gasp* senses of humor.

About #FreedomOfTweets, This is important to us. This is important to every human who values freedom.

https://youtu.be/kApCBoYeLeY

"Hugs RWarehall."

No one is saying to give Ryan free pass. You can still point out holes in his logic. Only strong language may be the determinant of your position and your allies.

And do you realize Ryan is actually helping your cause?
By making ridiculous claims not back by proof, other people will feel alienated and no longer want to identify with his movement.
stoicsentry, and others in this thread itself is proof of that. People who once ignore you when you say you are with GG will now listen if your words hold any salt.

It is just like the small group of people who identify with GG makes death threat and the whole media harp on that, tarnishing GG reputation and make people feel alienated with GG cause. Only this time it is SJW turn.

Just think his debunked post as a trophy that people visiting this thread will realize the fallacies of SJW and realize there is light in GG. Then you may find him quite likeable in helping your cause.

RWarehall
You bring up the old adage of men work longer hours than women. But the US Bureau of Labor Statistics says otherwise: http://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2008/jun/wk4/art04.htm
As well as the AAUW: http://www.aauw.org/files/2013/02/graduating-to-a-pay-gap-the-earnings-of-women-and-men-one-year-after-college-graduation.pdf

And I'm disregarding your citations of Christina Hoff Sommers, and the Honey Badger Brigade since once again I trust actual experts than pundits with enjoy expressing there opinions loudly. Now I know your thinking "what about CONSAD," well because it doesn't disprove the wage gap. In fact they found 5-7% that couldn't be explained by individual choices. You cannot prove a negative.

Ah, referring outsiders as "parasites and culture vultures." Just another way of describing those you disagree with as "the other." That really doesn't gel with your claim that gaming has but more inclusive than other forms of media.
Also for a group of people who feel that there opponents have no sense of humor, Gamergators don't take to kindly to being mocked.

Ryan, they contain FACTS. Dismiss any facts which disagree with yours?

The first link PROVES my point! Because it shows men working full-time DO work more hours on average than women. 8.2 hours per day vs. 7.8 hours for days they have worked. The other part you seem to ignore is that it has also been shown that men work more weekends. FACT!

From the same source...
"In general, employed women work fewer hours per week
than men. On average, women worked 35.8 hours per week
in 2012, compared with 40.8 hours for men."

In other words, men work 14% more hours than women. Get YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. Quit making shit up. But it is interesting how you "happened" to jump on the 8.2 hours vs. 7.8 hours worked per day statistic which looks close but then seemingly ignored that fact men work more days per week...Sure looks like you are trying to mislead with statistics (more likely you read this somewhere where someone else did exactly like I said).

And then you have the audacity to cite the AAWU whose slogan is "Empowering Women Since 1881" but you disregard Christina Hoff Sommers out of hand?

But hey, here is a response by a qualified woman Diana Furchtgott-Roth, former chief economist at the U.S. Department of Labor...
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/bogus-aauw-study-perpetuates-wage-gap-myths/article/2512127

Should we believe your feminist advocates or an actual accomplished economist. Hmmm...the answer would be obvious to anyone but you...

That link to the Honey Badgers site, if you'd read what they wrote...
They investigated the claims by your "expert" and she completely mis-read (or intentionally lied) about one of the economic studies. They linked to the real source, a real expert and proved her wrong.

As to Christina Hoff Sommers, she has been writing numerous books and articles for magazines like Time, Newsweek and so many other publications over the last 2 decades, it's unreal. She is an expert in the field.

As to not being able to disprove a negative, you haven't proven a thing yourself. There is no proven wage gap period. You are just a terrible TROLL!

You don't have a case. You are clueless about so many facts. You only seem to be able to quote biased disproven feminists and then have the audacity to call them the only "experts" which can be trusted when their credentials are far inferior...

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT!

But hey, like others have said, you are showing a lot of people how stupid SJW's like you really are...