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227: 8<~~~~~~~~~~
Is it really necessary to antagonize someone just because you disagree with them?
The issue's not that they disagree. As you may have noticed it is the fact that they crawl in here and troll this thread - sometimes pages at a time. They bully and harass and disrupt. They make it almost impossible to have any sort of debate. Since they left quite a few people began to come back and there are also a few new faces here. Another factor is their constant down voting of everyone - which of course continued the whole time of their absence. The down-repping doesn't so much bother me personally despite being on the receiving end of a helluvah lot of it. But it does put some people off, as does not being able to participate in what is actually a very interesting and to some controversial subject without being terrorized by these imbecilic zealots. If you think on it you'll realize that's just how it is. Anyway you'll soon find out after a few "conversations" with them What was that sjw quote? It went something like "Lets pretend to befriend them and then turn around and scream SHITLORD!!! at them". Something like that. Anyways ... just sayin'. Good luck with your attempts at olive branching. :-)


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Brasas: I support this motion.
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Shadowstalker16: As long as it goes both ways, me too!
But do you really believe it will? I mean really?
Post edited August 11, 2015 by noncompliantgame
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Vainamoinen: The most important graphic novel of the last 10 years, I think, is Shaun Tan's The Arrival. And if you're into the social justice stuff, ain't we all, try Craig Thompson's Habibi or Blankets (warning, both explicit at times). That would give you a more well rounded view of the medium.
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227: Thanks for the recommendation; I looked those up and Habibi in particular stood out. Maybe I'll find the time to sit down with one of those at some point.

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Vainamoinen: We had already agreed on the problems of universal outrage culture. And particularly as the outcry here centered not on a franchise, but on one individual creator, and comprised far too many articles, it wasn't a cause I could get behind in any way. Of course, the death threats the protesters received, I couldn't get behind those as well.
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227: Sigh, there are always death threats whenever something controversial happens, aren't there? But yeah, I wasn't accusing you or anything, and I remember that we agree on the outrage thing. I just thought that incident fit into the random puritanical outrage that seems to be the modus operandi of the culture crusaders someone had mentioned earlier using the acronym that shan't be written.

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YaTEdiGo: Here it comes the puritan, LOL
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227: Is it really necessary to antagonize someone just because you disagree with them? Besides, Vaina linked me to some fairly explicit artsy stuff, so I think you might be a bit off the mark. They're kind of taking it from all sides, lately, and I think the least we could do is appreciate that someone's still around to disagree and keep us from turning into the same kind of echo chamber we've spent the past year decrying.

I'm not asking that we all magically become best friends forever, but a little decency toward even those we disagree with would go a long way.
Neo Puritans are focused on ¨pixels¨, and pop culture, such is the HUGE decadence of our society, that started to fight for the rights of the "virtual" comfortably sit down on their sofas and twitting on their hundred of dollars devices, because we all want to imagine we are "saving the world", some to save their "souls" of the guilty of living better than many others, in an unconscious way... making meanwhile people like Anita Sarkesian or others make money in their own internet boudeville ... meanwhile half of the other world, REALLY suffer under the feet of men, and other women, (Ablation is commited by women to other women, but hey! that´s men´s fault... not stupid religions or believes fault... is men...)

The most funny thing is seeing the battle for ¨sexism¨ on the mouth of SJW, to later see them defending mouslims "rights" of religion, or even Christians... because of course, GTAV will bring you to rape, but the bible will always need to be respected... you cannot draw assess or cameltoes, or tits, but you have the RIGHT to be Christian or Mouslim... SJWs LOGIC sic... (Actually is related and makes sense that this "SWJ" ahem PURITANs are afraid of this, as both religions are been always so afraid of the sexualized women´s image when greeks and romans had no problem in draw pennis or tits, very interesting...)

The bible, that fantastic book... but Spiderwoman is a crime!!!
http://biblehub.com/genesis/3-16.htm

And this is the major and most ridiculous point on SWJs, they outrage for scientist pin-ups t-shirts, to scientist speaches about facts in the difference between genders, to artists and their freedom of create imaginary things, because at the end of the day all this movement is so "new age" and supertitious, so really written in the roots of a puritan society, no wonders real feminism get rotten by puritans too - https://www.lagrange.edu/resources/pdf/citations/2011/10_Hall_History.pdf - so now comfortable numb in their iPads, with superpowerful tweets that they think change the world, and insulting or even bullying anyone different to them... if not at least insulting their intelligence with comparisons as "if you play GTA maybe you will finish killing people", stupidity has no limits, that is for sure.

I bet Anita Sarkesian, someone that OMG called police for "internet threats", such a damsel in distress... would NEVER be brave enough to risk her life for a real cause, having the f... big VAGINA to do this...

http://hyperallergic.com/145768/feminist-activists-bleed-and-shit-on-islamic-state-flag-nsfw/

Radical feminism? if it is like the one in the last link YES, let´s go with it!!! but if being a "radical" feminist is to be concerned about Manara´s Spiderwoman or Pin Ups T-shirt and videogames characters our decadence is already far beyond my imagination ...
Post edited August 11, 2015 by YaTEdiGo
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noncompliantgame: The issue's not that they disagree. As you may have noticed it is the fact that they crawl in here and troll this thread - sometimes pages at a time. They bully and harass and disrupt. They make it almost impossible to have any sort of debate. Since they left quite a few people began to come back and there are also a few new faces here. Another factor is their constant down voting of everyone - which of course continued the whole time of their absence. The down-repping doesn't so much bother me personally despite being on the receiving end of a helluvah lot of it. But it does put some people off, as does not being able to participate in what is actually a very interesting and to some controversial subject without being terrorized by these imbecilic zealots. If you think on it you'll realize that's just how it is. Anyway you'll soon find out after a few "conversations" with them What was that sjw quote? It went something like "Lets pretend to befriend them and then turn around and scream SHITLORD!!! at them". Something like that. Anyways ... just sayin'. Good luck with your attempts at olive branching. :-)
Aside from trolling, I believe anyone can have a conversation with anyone but when doing so with someone who easily takes offense and is quick to judge and doesn't bother asking questions or clarifying; you just gotta stand out of their trigger topics. It by no means limited to$JWs, but most of them are like that from what I've seen.
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noncompliantgame:
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Shadowstalker16:
I NEED EVERYONE'S ATENTTION!!!

I want everyone to watch this, this has been talked about since around 2001-3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZzdNKLqjio
Post edited August 11, 2015 by Elmofongo
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noncompliantgame: The issue's not that they disagree. As you may have noticed it is the fact that they crawl in here and troll this thread - sometimes pages at a time. They bully and harass and disrupt. They make it almost impossible to have any sort of debate. Since they left quite a few people began to come back and there are also a few new faces here. Another factor is their constant down voting of everyone - which of course continued the whole time of their absence. The down-repping doesn't so much bother me personally despite being on the receiving end of a helluvah lot of it. But it does put some people off, as does not being able to participate in what is actually a very interesting and to some controversial subject without being terrorized by these imbecilic zealots. If you think on it you'll realize that's just how it is. Anyway you'll soon find out after a few "conversations" with them What was that sjw quote? It went something like "Lets pretend to befriend them and then turn around and scream SHITLORD!!! at them". Something like that. Anyways ... just sayin'. Good luck with your attempts at olive branching. :-)
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Shadowstalker16: Aside from trolling, I believe anyone can have a conversation with anyone but when doing so with someone who easily takes offense and is quick to judge and doesn't bother asking questions or clarifying; you just gotta stand out of their trigger topics. It by no means limited to$JWs, but most of them are like that from what I've seen.
True. But in avoiding their trigger topics we are allowing them to succeed at a type of indirect censoring. And by absenting themselves from the forum they provided us with the opportunity to see the difference without that disruption. I'm sure it has not gone unnoticed that former pro-gamergaters have come back and new people are posting too - to whom I just want to say WELCOME BACK! and WELCOME! to any Gog #gamergate news forum newbies and I hope it lasts - but no one else is to self-censor to cater to the demands of fanatics.
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Shadowstalker16:
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Elmofongo: I NEED EVERYONE'S ATENTTION!!!

I want everyone to watch this, this has been talked about since around 2001-3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZzdNKLqjio
Cool video. But you should be sent to jail for harassing Anita Sarkeesian by saying there are women in games. You could've gotten out in around 5 years if it was just a claim, but you had the audacity to prove it; thus breaking the lord's words of ''Listen and Believe''. 25 years for harassment I say ;D

@noncompliantgamer
I was talking about talking to such people on a casual basis. I have a good friend who's blindly devoted to a communist party offshoot student's union. As long as no one criticizes Marxism; he's a swell person to be around. What I do find sad is so many people too busy being outraged that nothing is ever debated. We're still riding on sexism accusations on videogames from pre 2010 or possibly earlier and not a single two sided debate has been conducted to address it.
I saw the GOG GG thread in the GG survey on KiA. Apparently, the redditors get around, unlike the channers who just stay there until someone kicks them out.
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noncompliantgame: The issue's not that they disagree. As you may have noticed it is the fact that they crawl in here and troll this thread - sometimes pages at a time. They bully and harass and disrupt. [...] Another factor is their constant down voting of everyone - which of course continued the whole time of their absence.
The bullying and harassment of others isn't an excuse for our side to be any less classy, though. If we can't argue our points without emotion, then we need to either take a break or consider the possibility that we're wrong in whatever we're arguing (not automatically believing that, of course, but allowing a bit of self-reflection to better understand why we hold that particular opinion and trying to come up with a better way of getting the point across). People who are right don't need to be rude.

And everyone gets downvoted in this thread, including Vaina. No one knows who's doing it, and no one can prove anything, so finger-pointing is ultimately pointless. You may see my stance here as extending an olive branch, but I simply think that our arguments can hold their own weight without the need to make personal judgments against those who may disagree. The only thing that kind of talk accomplishes is sidetracking the entire conversation and undermining our "good guy" credibility.

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YaTEdiGo: And this is the major and most ridiculous point on SWJs, they outrage for scientist pin-ups t-shirts
That kind of outrage being something Vaina agreed was a problem. We should be more careful not to put people into boxes and assume that they fall in lockstep with the party line or we'll alienate absolutely everyone. Supporting GG doesn't make one a woman-hating misogynist with a neckbeard any more than not supporting it makes one a perpetually-outraged fanatic.

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Elmofongo: I want everyone to watch this, this has been talked about since around 2001-3
That voiceover is terrible. It's like they hired the guy who does those lame "top 10 craziest police chases" shows to narrate. When I become emperor of the world, using that kind of a voice will be punishable by death.
Post edited August 11, 2015 by 227
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noncompliantgame: The issue's not that they disagree. As you may have noticed it is the fact that they crawl in here and troll this thread - sometimes pages at a time. They bully and harass and disrupt. [...] Another factor is their constant down voting of everyone - which of course continued the whole time of their absence.
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227: The bullying and harassment of others isn't an excuse for our side to be any less classy, though. If we can't argue our points without emotion, then we need to either take a break or consider the possibility that we're wrong in whatever we're arguing (not automatically believing that, of course, but allowing a bit of self-reflection to better understand why we hold that particular opinion and trying to come up with a better way of getting the point across). People who are right don't need to be rude.

And everyone gets downvoted in this thread, including Vaina. No one knows who's doing it, and no one can prove anything, so finger-pointing is ultimately pointless. You may see my stance here as extending an olive branch, but I simply think that our arguments can hold their own weight without the need to make personal judgments against those who may disagree. The only thing that kind of talk accomplishes is sidetracking the entire conversation and undermining our "good guy" credibility.

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YaTEdiGo: And this is the major and most ridiculous point on SWJs, they outrage for scientist pin-ups t-shirts
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227: That kind of outrage being something Vaina agreed was a problem. We should be more careful not to put people into boxes and assume that they fall in lockstep with the party line or we'll alienate absolutely everyone. Supporting GG doesn't make one a woman-hating misogynist with a neckbeard any more than not supporting it makes one a perpetually-outraged fanatic.

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Elmofongo: I want everyone to watch this, this has been talked about since around 2001-3
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227: That voiceover is terrible. It's like they hired the guy who does those lame "top 10 craziest police chases" shows to narrate. When I become emperor of the world, using that kind of a voice will be punishable by death.
Does the voice over of Daniel from Extra Credits and Gaijin Goomba also apply and mind you thats not the real voices of these guys, just some sythisized bullshit to make them sound like 10 year old kids for some reason:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LdDYswsROg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_NwvZgL6xE
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Shadowstalker16: Aside from trolling, I believe anyone can have a conversation with anyone but when doing so with someone who easily takes offense and is quick to judge and doesn't bother asking questions or clarifying; you just gotta stand out of their trigger topics. It by no means limited to$JWs, but most of them are like that from what I've seen.
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noncompliantgame: True. But in avoiding their trigger topics we are allowing them to succeed at a type of indirect censoring. And by absenting themselves from the forum they provided us with the opportunity to see the difference without that disruption. I'm sure it has not gone unnoticed that former pro-gamergaters have come back and new people are posting too - to whom I just want to say WELCOME BACK! and WELCOME! to any Gog #gamergate news forum newbies and I hope it lasts - but no one else is to self-censor to cater to the demands of fanatics.
Exactly, this is the point, no one just because is annoying or bullying you have any right to stop you or anyone to talk the way you want to, or about whatever you want to. SWJs are so nice and rightful people ... I bet many of them would do whatever they can to DISCRIMINATE people because their opinions or GENDER for example: https://twitter.com/leighalexander/status/464779743175655425

@227

Sure, but supporting a con actress like Anita Sarkesian is far beyond the line. Her comments about games previously to start "loving" videogames before her crowfounding success, her racism and misunderstanding of other races, or her constant contradictions about "cunt" words depending on the videogame (witcher vs. Life is Strange) or in MADMAX among other tons of things would be proof enough to someone with a minimum of common sense to realize what is the bigger interest on this couple about ¨virtual rights¨ on videogames, yes of course, make money.

The same for the people that constantly insult her online, they are feeding her, the same to people that complain about the sex life of Zoe Quinn, is her f... business, starting with his ex-boyfriend.
Post edited August 11, 2015 by YaTEdiGo
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As Quinn herself very recently relayed, one of the primary pretenses to justify harrassment is to concoct a conspiracy theory about the target's wealth.

The Tale of Tales "tweetin' 40k" incident should have been an epochal warning signpost for that trigger happy atmosphere, but alas.

Sniffing out corruption is sniffing out money, sure enough. But starving indie developers, dirt poor video game journalists and, in particular, not for profit organizations like femfreq are an hilariously bad place to start sniffing out trails of money.

And if annual reports are even public domain, well...
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Vainamoinen: As Quinn herself very recently relayed, one of the primary pretenses to justify harrassment is to concoct a conspiracy theory about the target's wealth.

The Tale of Tales "tweetin' 40k" incident should have been an epochal warning signpost for that trigger happy atmosphere, but alas.

Sniffing out corruption is sniffing out money, sure enough. But starving indie developers, dirt poor video game journalists and, in particular, not for profit organizations like femfreq are an hilariously bad place to start sniffing out trails of money.

And if annual reports are even public domain, well...
Nice try to mix stupid conspiracies with real facts, but no, "non profit organization" LOL ... Sarkesian is far beyond more smart than the poor Quinn, that actually was really harrashed in a shameful way, but Anita? because from popularity and that crowfounding earns nothing... oh yes... sure.... try harder...
Post edited August 11, 2015 by YaTEdiGo
Yup, Anita's just SO non-profit...
That's why 44% of the Kickstarter money went to "Salary and Wages"...
And its rather ironic Vain, that you seem to clain that Tale of Tales and their 40k tweet is the conspiracy instead of Anita taking the money...
Proof? Oh right, the great Vain knows all and anyone who disagrees is a conspiracy theorist...
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YaTEdiGo: Nice try to mix stupid conspiracies with real facts, but no, "non profit organization" LOL ... Sarkesian is far beyond more smart than the poor Quinn, that actually was really harrashed in a shameful way, but Anita? because from popularity and that crowfounding earns nothing... oh yes... sure.... try harder...
I respect your position on Quinn and Eron Gjoni, and if by stupid conspiracy theories you mean the Tales of Tales bit, I'll respect that as well. As you can see, this theory is still very well in dispute here!

The shameful harrassment of Anita Sarkeesian I have witnessed in person when it occurred. Conning money out of people would require conned people; and last time I checked, the TvW Kickstarter backers are overwhelmingly supportive of Sarkeesian's continued efforts. Of course, I've seen quite a few non backers painstakingly trying to explain why backers SHOULD feel conned, on youtube and at least one petition online, but... that's not how things work, gamergate.

There's no con without the conned.

Don't worry, the apex is certainly reached for Sarkeesian. Another monetary influx of the Intel nature will not occur. Tropes vs. Women is now running on its reserves, with no even remotely relevant donation money still coming in (evident from e.g. annual report - the Intel spike is, let's say, very dominant). You do think Sarkeesian's smart, so you know that she could and should right now wrap it all up and kill it all off by year's end. That would be the most profitable option. Planning two additional series for the immediate future and years to come? Not a smart business decision, we both know that. Also a personal nightmare as harrassment continues.

Yet an ethical decision if she believes what she preaches.
Post edited August 11, 2015 by Vainamoinen
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Vainamoinen: snip
Hmm...
So no comment on 44% of the Kickstarter money going to "Salary and wages"?
Poor Anita...
Really makes you wonder is she pays herself about the same percentage out of her non-profit

Full breakdown:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2015/01/24/anita-sarkeesian-releases-kickstarter-breakdown-raised-440000-in-2014/

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of a good story, right Vain? Poor harassed Anita...my ass...
Lets separate facts and tin foil hat theories first :

FACTS
1.Feminist Frequency IS a non profit organization as per US law, and is hence exempt from many taxes.
2.Anita DID fail to put out full series of videos as promised; and at any time since the new precedent was set 2 months or so ago, she is liable to be sued and compensate the backers.
3.In essence, Anita lied, and took money, hence conned her backers. Any media that reports that cannot be overlooked just because they were trying make her loose money because no one can read the minds of others or pretend to do so in order to seem like a proof is less credible.

THEORIES / RUMORS
1.Tale of Tales devs paid $20,000 or $40,000; can't remember to Sarkeesian to promote their new game / buy positive opinion. This has neither been confirmed by the game's PR person, the friendly neighborhood megaphone.

UNRELATED
1.Anita was harassed for putting up her kickstarter on TvW. This is WAAAAAAAYYYYYYY before gamergate started.