If that's true GG fucked itself from the get-go by blowing up over all the kiss-and-tell Quinn stuff
At the end of the day she was / is a small time female indie dev with a low tech free game that tries to be 'about stuff'
If GG is REALLY about corruption it should have gone after EA or Ubi with their press junkets and only giving pre-release viewing to people to sign to say they'll give good reviewws / know are already in their pockets bullshit - no one likes to see a bully beat up on a little guy (or girl)

I aggree, this whole affair backfired hard.
It was simply seen as a possibility to prove the intense connections between producers and "journalists" when trying to fight the big bullies did not work. At least the indie market was supposed to be free of this shit but apparently it is not.

everyone has been hating on ea and ubi.

problem is they are a lot better at covering their tracks.
And those 2 we have even bigger problems with. DRM DLC preorder and that sort of utter shit

the journos are corrupt and claim gamers are dead and many AAA devs don't give a shit about their gamers.

if anyone is left in the cold its the gamers. before we were hated on as nerds, no lifes, virgins, neckbeards. now we are also called misogenists and rapists. Yay

It's a hate movement that originated as a counter reaction to voices asking for more inclusion and diversity in video games. And scene. As such it started, before the label, many years ago. It's hard to deny that it's the same reaction we saw when Sarkeesian first ran her Kickstarter. Same voices, same arguments, same topic, same intensity.

So, no, the movement in itself, before Baldwin got interested, wasn't about corruption in journalism at all. It also wasn't about corruption in journalism when Baldwin gave it its name. Then it was about slutshaming. But in an effort to justify their abject anger, some sources called a bunch of randon articles about the outrage insulting, equalled that to corruption, and bingo.

This is not a hen/egg situation. It's all too clear what reacted to what. When gaters claim that only the (ha, ha) "gamers are dead" articles had started this thing, they refuse to see that those articles already were a reaction to a movement that had clearly already formed, whether they agree with its depiction or not. And the link to "corruption" in that respect hasn't even been remotely established. The following "investigation" made 100% clear that this was about finding dirt on people who supposedly 'insulted' "gamers". Cause and effect: I feel insulted, therefore this person must be corrupt, therefore I will try to find more 'proof' of corruption. This had and continues to have nothing, absolutely nothing with corruption in game journalism.

It's witch hunting 101. FIRST you find your witch, THEN you find proof of witchcraft.

And gaters are usually well aware how this whole mess lacks in sensible thematic progression, that's why they created themselves a bonding narrative. You can't really say that "it's about corruption in journalism" and still keep hating on mainly non journalists. So how does gamergate keep going? Easy. By inventing themselves a nice ficititious enemy figure and a huge conspiracy. They invent communities and organisations that try to 'inject' their ideologies into video games. They desperately try to paint video game journalism and criticism as a political activity. And, wam, finally they can hate on mere video game critics or games that don't have the gameplay they like. Because all those things are then "corruption in journalism".

It's a completely laughable logic.

That's why we have the "corruption in game JOURNALISM" narrative in the meantime. Not "game INDUSTRY". Of course, by its own then standards, gamergate should have straight out killed Warner for the Mordor deals. But, yeah, never was what this is about. Corruption is something you find when you sniff out money. EA, Ubisoft, Warner, lots of money. Most video game journalists are dirt poor, while declaring your company not-for-profit is a huge mistake in trying to make a fortune.

Are you going to stick around for the potential rational discussion?

If so I'd like your "definition" of hate group with particular emphasis on differences between GG and anti GG you see.

Feel free to PM, or even post in the Idle Forums thread, if you'd prefer that. I'll go easy on the sarc if you attempt neutrality rather than condescension.

Some history snippets:
http://killapenguin.com/random/culture/the-history-of-gamergate-sans-emotion/

Like any movement, it developed not surprising since there never was any real agenda (which makes it the opposite of the other side of course).
The development was (artificially?) steered towards the indeed existing problem of the increased forcing of political agendas from outside parties into works of art (=games) which is a big problem too and goes hand in hand with the corruption that is still happening.

This would be interesting indeed, if anti-#gg isn't a hate movement, I don't know which one could ever be.

many people like me disliked anita for her use of bullshit elements, just like many people hate the writer of the show, the moron known as jonathan mcintosh.

and if 14 sites claim on the same day your culture is dead/should really die its more than normal people reacted badly (still amazed they seeming did not expect much backlash).

later it became standard to generalize everyone in gg. You know, one extremist means an entire culture is extremist right? one person (not even confirmed it came from gg) and the entirety of gg sends death threats. Good thing people on the other side never send those. OH wait.

if GG had been about women hate alone, it would have died out months ago.

and if you ask me, the sjw are not going to let it die. every time gg seems to dwindle, the media or anti gg do something to flare it up. Not illogical, seeing how much money they make from playing victim.

Exactly. There's still a lot of money to be made.
Just let Anita send some death-threats to herself and get another 400k here and there without doing anything.

i've seen anti gg do horrible things, and instead of disapproving of it (which gg mainly did) they celebrated it.

hell thats the #1 reason I went from neutral to somewhat pro.

seeing even worse things and what kind of people led the anti made me into very pro.

Of course, I could not have my own opinion and stance on the matter. It must be a form of corruption. I see, I see.

Yup. That never happened. Apart from those that neither even touch the subject in this way, there's also a fair amount of articles which assess that the culture is eradicating itself. And I still see that happening. Daily.

Too bad there's no culture of people slapping the label "anti-gg" on themselves like it's a thing. Opposing gamergate is incidental and comes with voicing certain beliefs. On the other hand, the invention of "anti-gg" (whatever that is) or "SJWs" or "cultural marxists" is a life elexir for some gamergate currents.

I do not know of any group that calls itself "anti GG", hence a comparison is impossible.

That's condescending. So I'm calling you out as being disingenuous :)

And so is opposing the opposition. There are not as many people calling themselves "gamergaters" as there are for example people calling themselves feminists (even if they never did anything positive in this direction) and you title yourself as SJW here (I hope it's ironic but don't dare to hope so).

I aggree with the articles premise that #gamergate has harmed a lot, but that's mainly because people looking it up on Wikipedia are now reading the bullshit that is coming more or less directly from people like Quinn and Sarkeesian who were so free to redefine it and you seem to believe them. It is no coincidence, that this bollocks article calling it a"misogynistic harassment campaign" with an advertising photograph of Zoe Quinn etc... is "protected" (meaning: unable to correct) until summer 2015. Shaming and silencing critics is always the preferred method as it seems.

Mayhap this word doesn't even mean what you think it means?

I'm calling you out as drawing any strain of the discussion into the realm of the political, where it doesn't belong, hence derailing any actually "potential rational" discussion.

yeah if this "movement" wants any credibility... it needs to find a way to take the focus off of feminism completely, and get back onto corruption. Sure corruption is out there.. but how much of it has to do with a girl who wishes girls were represented better in games? Basically none of it.

The media made a mistake with their GG articles.. because well.. GG was just so easy of a target. So they went overboard, like "shooting fish in a barrel". And it was a mistake because it provided a rally cry for what was an extremely confusing topic to begin with.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/224400/Gamers_dont_have_to_be_your_audience_Gamers_are_over.phpµ
http://dangolding.tumblr.com/post/95985875943/the-end-of-gamers
https://archive.today/ZyLdw
http://archive.today/jVqJ8
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/columns/extra-punctuation/8031-Don-t-Use-the-Word-Gamer
http://archive.today/2t93l
http://archive.today/rkvO8
http://archive.today/9NxHy
https://archive.today/HkPHc
https://archive.today/UwiC2#
https://archive.is/L4n6p
https://archive.today/tIS6L
http://archive.today/l1kTW
https://archive.today/CTpxW

never happened


also, people who are seen as anti gg have sabotaged charities because there was a change gamergaters would support it.

GG is a campaign against certain ideals.
the anti gg campaign is a downright hate campaign against anyone supporting either it or simply the ethics ideals (TB and PBG come to mind)

People have said we should die 1000 times over, said they should reopen nazi deathcamps for people supporting gg and we are a far bigger threat than the IS and equal to the KKK.

hell talking to someone pro equals shooting a few people.