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General discussionThe first-person point 'n click adventure games thread(226 posts)(226 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 14, 2021
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my name is sadde catte: ...
I started playing LucasArts "The Dig" last night for the first time in over 15 years. I barely remembered it so I'm playing it as if it's new to me. I'm really struck by how it's a first person adventure game in all but its actual perspective. The tone and puzzle style are definitely more reminiscent of Myst than they are Monkey Island.
The Dig is one my favorites from LucasArts, together with Monkey 3 and Grim Fandango. It is more atmospheric and immersive than the rest so I totally get what you're saying. Spielberg's involvement also helped a lot.

Over here we actually had a whole weekend free so we managed to play through Riven! I love this game so much and it was great to experience it again without remembering any solutions at all (22 years later and without a walkthrough this time). No wonder it is my favorite 1st person adventure along with Shivers (for different reasons each one). Riven should be experienced from every adventure gamer at least once.

Now I am less inclined to continue the marathon because I know 3-4-5 are inferior to Myst and Riven :) But I guess we will play through them as well sooner or later.
Posted February 14, 2021
Riven is definitely on my 2021 playlist (never played it). Adventuregamers.com is quite favorable towards Myst III and IV. When you say inferior, in what way? (Haven't played them, but they're on my wishlist).

Off topic-ish: I absolutely loved The Dig back in the day, even though I played it considerably less times than the rest of LucasArts roster. Great game, and it does indeed feel like it's a first person perspective game played in third person.
Posted February 15, 2021
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TheDudeLebowski: Riven is definitely on my 2021 playlist (never played it). Adventuregamers.com is quite favorable towards Myst III and IV. When you say inferior, in what way? (Haven't played them, but they're on my wishlist).
3 and 4 are very good considering they're by other developers, they're just not Riven. Myst 3 is by Presto Studios (Journeyman Project) and essentially borrows its structure from the original Myst (having 3 ages that can be accessed in any order from the hub age but must be completed before you can return to the hub) but it's a good imitation. Myst 4 is the weaker one of the non-Cyan ones - it's a good game but it doesn't quite feel like a real Myst game to me.

Having said that, both 3 and 4 are better than 5 (despite 5 being by Cyan). 5 is kind of a continuation of Uru and follows that gameplay style more. Uru and 5 are worth playing if you're a fan of the genre and series but they're a long way from the brilliance of Riven.

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TheDudeLebowski: Off topic-ish: I absolutely loved The Dig back in the day, even though I played it considerably less times than the rest of LucasArts roster. Great game, and it does indeed feel like it's a first person perspective game played in third person.
Yeah, I'd only played it once before and I know I've played most entries in the LucasArts canon multiple times (except maybe Maniac, Zak and Last Crusade because they all have deaths and/or dead ends).
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Panaias: Now I am less inclined to continue the marathon because I know 3-4-5 are inferior to Myst and Riven :) But I guess we will play through them as well sooner or later.
Don't forget Uru! Myst 5 doesn't make a lot of sense without it. Myst 1-4 are all actually set some time in the 1800s where Myst 5 is implied to be later than Uru.
Post edited February 15, 2021 by my name is sadde catte
Posted February 15, 2021
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TheDudeLebowski: Riven is definitely on my 2021 playlist (never played it). Adventuregamers.com is quite favorable towards Myst III and IV. When you say inferior, in what way? (Haven't played them, but they're on my wishlist).
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my name is sadde catte: 3 and 4 are very good considering they're by other developers, they're just not Riven...
I couldn't say it better than our sadde catte!

Once you play Riven you will understand the feeling. Everything in this game feels so... majestic and perfect!

Don't get me wrong, I also love Myst 3 and 4 (and 5 - see below). These are great games as well. I mentioned "inferior" mostly because I couldn't get the same feeling as in every step I took in Riven. All of the Myst series is great, but Riven stands proudly on top :)

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my name is sadde catte: ...
Don't forget Uru! Myst 5 doesn't make a lot of sense without it. Myst 1-4 are all actually set some time in the 1800s where Myst 5 is implied to be later than Uru.
I kind of always thought of Uru as an outsider in the series, I know it sounds negative but I could not feel very attached to the game. I could get used to playing a Myst 3rd person game, with simplistic 3D platformer controls, but I think the whole "find the signs" sounded to me like "gotta catch 'em all" :) I know it may sound stupid, but it wouldn't let me feel the same thing I felt with the rest of the series.

I honestly don't know if Uru will be part of the marathon, we will have to think a bit.

Myst 5 is a tricky one to describe. In general, I liked it. But I think I made the mistake back then to play it in free-roaming mode, so it felt more like a generic FPS with puzzles. This time we will definitely play it in point-n-click mode (thankfully there is an option).

Also, @TheDudeLebowski, in Myst 5 there is a new machanic which can be hit or miss depending on your tastes (please note that the following info is not a spoiler, it is a core element after a while in the game) - you get a stone tablet on which you can "draw" stuff to achieve... other stuff. This can sometimes be fun, other times frustrating until you get it right.
Posted February 15, 2021
Riven is probably the Best Myst. The big interconnected world, the metapuzzle general idea, the difficulty of puzzles once you solve them step by step, the scope of the game and an artistic direction and quality that looks great even today considering the resolution of the era. The immersiveness. The music... the FMV

It is one of my favourite games in that genre, indeed, a great journey for for a long time.
Posted February 23, 2021
Last night we finished playing Myst 3 - Exile!

A great game as well. It is apparent from the start that it is not a Cyan game, but Presto did a very good job in general.

What I liked most:
-The puzzles are more "playful" than in previous games (+trial and error sections are generally meaningful and with subtle feedback)
-The 360-degree rotation around each node - compared to previous games, this prevented us from getting disoriented
-Like Riven, the visuals are fantastic and show the game has aged very well

What I hated:
-In 3 places (if memory serves me well) it was not clear that we could move to a new position. This resulted in getting stuck and aimlessly wandering around for a bit. This is 100% a design issue, as the game generally does not show you paths as clearly as in previous games. This was the main obstacle to be honest, as we were more stuck by not finding our way than solving puzzles. One of these locations is stated below (for those who have already played it).

***BEGIN SPOILER***

In the Age of Edana (the one full of weird plants and creatures), the point where we were stuck was near the bottom of the cave-like structure. You first manipulate some plants to direct light to another plant that unfolds like a bridge, leading you across to a horizontal tree stump passage. If you follow that passage in the same direction as you came it takes you to another part where you should obviously go. But, there is another passage from the same position which you have to locate by rotating about 180 degrees and looking somehow diagonally-up. There you see a thing that may look like a decorational hollow spot. Well it is actually a new passage (although it does not seem like one at all).

***END SPOILER***

Nevertheless, the whole experience was great and never frustrating. Looking forward to Revelation :)

P.S. I may have already mentioned it, but it feels sooo good not remembering anything and replaying the Myst series after so many years!
Posted February 23, 2021
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Panaias: Last night we finished playing Myst 3 - Exile!

A great game as well. It is apparent from the start that it is not a Cyan game, but Presto did a very good job in general.

What I liked most:
-The puzzles are more "playful" than in previous games (+trial and error sections are generally meaningful and with subtle feedback)
-The 360-degree rotation around each node - compared to previous games, this prevented us from getting disoriented
-Like Riven, the visuals are fantastic and show the game has aged very well

What I hated:
-In 3 places (if memory serves me well) it was not clear that we could move to a new position. This resulted in getting stuck and aimlessly wandering around for a bit. This is 100% a design issue, as the game generally does not show you paths as clearly as in previous games. This was the main obstacle to be honest, as we were more stuck by not finding our way than solving puzzles. One of these locations is stated below (for those who have already played it).

***BEGIN SPOILER***

In the Age of Edana (the one full of weird plants and creatures), the point where we were stuck was near the bottom of the cave-like structure. You first manipulate some plants to direct light to another plant that unfolds like a bridge, leading you across to a horizontal tree stump passage. If you follow that passage in the same direction as you came it takes you to another part where you should obviously go. But, there is another passage from the same position which you have to locate by rotating about 180 degrees and looking somehow diagonally-up. There you see a thing that may look like a decorational hollow spot. Well it is actually a new passage (although it does not seem like one at all).

***END SPOILER***

Nevertheless, the whole experience was great and never frustrating. Looking forward to Revelation :)

P.S. I may have already mentioned it, but it feels sooo good not remembering anything and replaying the Myst series after so many years!
Could you conclude that Exile is the "easiest" or in other words, the most fair Myst Game? At least this was always my perception. Great game indeed
Posted February 23, 2021
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Gudadantza: Could you conclude that Exile is the "easiest" or in other words, the most fair Myst Game? At least this was always my perception. Great game indeed
It surely is more "manageable" than, say, Myst and Riven. Not that the puzzles are super easy, but for the most part the solutions came more intuitively. My only gripe were the unclear paths, but otherwise it is a very balanced game.

I also liked that it contained less reading than previous ones. In Riven I almost quit reading Catherine's notebook, that thing wouldn't end :) especially when combined with "handwriting" that is difficult to read.

Now I can't wait to play through the 4th one. I don't remember any puzzles / solutions at all, but I sure remember there was one that gave me a hard time back then.
Posted February 23, 2021
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Gudadantza: Could you conclude that Exile is the "easiest" or in other words, the most fair Myst Game? At least this was always my perception. Great game indeed
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Panaias: It surely is more "manageable" than, say, Myst and Riven. Not that the puzzles are super easy, but for the most part the solutions came more intuitively. My only gripe were the unclear paths, but otherwise it is a very balanced game.

I also liked that it contained less reading than previous ones. In Riven I almost quit reading Catherine's notebook, that thing wouldn't end :) especially when combined with "handwriting" that is difficult to read.

Now I can't wait to play through the 4th one. I don't remember any puzzles / solutions at all, but I sure remember there was one that gave me a hard time back then.
Graphically Revelations is specacular even today. Technologically it can be the summum of these kind o games pre real 3D. But In the past I had some problems due to the higher resoluton. The graphics were so rich that there was a little lag of a couple of seconds moving thorugh the nodes. I Never discovered if that was an engine limitation/glitch or a computer limitation slow Hard drive etc...
I want to replay it as well, but I want to do the same as you. Replay the series in order. It is the right time.
Posted February 23, 2021
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Panaias: Last night we finished playing Myst 3 - Exile!

A great game as well. It is apparent from the start that it is not a Cyan game, but Presto did a very good job in general.

What I liked most:
-The puzzles are more "playful" than in previous games (+trial and error sections are generally meaningful and with subtle feedback)
-The 360-degree rotation around each node - compared to previous games, this prevented us from getting disoriented
-Like Riven, the visuals are fantastic and show the game has aged very well

What I hated:
-In 3 places (if memory serves me well) it was not clear that we could move to a new position. This resulted in getting stuck and aimlessly wandering around for a bit. This is 100% a design issue, as the game generally does not show you paths as clearly as in previous games. This was the main obstacle to be honest, as we were more stuck by not finding our way than solving puzzles. One of these locations is stated below (for those who have already played it).

***BEGIN SPOILER***

In the Age of Edana (the one full of weird plants and creatures), the point where we were stuck was near the bottom of the cave-like structure. You first manipulate some plants to direct light to another plant that unfolds like a bridge, leading you across to a horizontal tree stump passage. If you follow that passage in the same direction as you came it takes you to another part where you should obviously go. But, there is another passage from the same position which you have to locate by rotating about 180 degrees and looking somehow diagonally-up. There you see a thing that may look like a decorational hollow spot. Well it is actually a new passage (although it does not seem like one at all).

***END SPOILER***

Nevertheless, the whole experience was great and never frustrating. Looking forward to Revelation :)

P.S. I may have already mentioned it, but it feels sooo good not remembering anything and replaying the Myst series after so many years!
I know exactly the bit you mean in Edana! That one was generally difficult to navigate.

My favourite age in that game is the "marble run" one.
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Gudadantza: Graphically Revelations is specacular even today. Technologically it can be the summum of these kind o games pre real 3D. But In the past I had some problems due to the higher resoluton. The graphics were so rich that there was a little lag of a couple of seconds moving thorugh the nodes. I Never discovered if that was an engine limitation/glitch or a computer limitation slow Hard drive etc...
I want to replay it as well, but I want to do the same as you. Replay the series in order. It is the right time.
I dunno, while Revelations is obviously technically superior, it's full of weird mistakes which mean for me that it holds up far worse than Riven or Myst 3. The sort of mistakes I mean are things like objects appearing/disappearing/moving between renders, particularly noticeable on the transitions between stills and FMVs. Despite the technical advancements, the graphics are lower quality for their time than Riven's were for its time due to a lack of attention to detail. It's a fun game for me, but it definitely feels like a "fake" Myst game.
Post edited February 23, 2021 by my name is sadde catte
Posted February 23, 2021
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Gudadantza: Graphically Revelations is specacular even today. Technologically it can be the summum of these kind o games pre real 3D. But In the past I had some problems due to the higher resoluton. The graphics were so rich that there was a little lag of a couple of seconds moving thorugh the nodes. I Never discovered if that was an engine limitation/glitch or a computer limitation slow Hard drive etc...
I want to replay it as well, but I want to do the same as you. Replay the series in order. It is the right time.
I also remember the visuals being quite spectacular. If I'm not mistaken, the game featured live actors in the prerendered environment while allowing you to do a full 360-degree camera motion. That was quite unbelieavable at the time!

About the transition lags, seems there's bad news: a quick search tells me that the lag is still there no matter how powerful the PC :/ Some people mention that on each node transition the game loads the corresponding data from the hard disk, hence the delay. Well, RAM was indeed a limitation back then, so prefetching assets was not really feasible. Still, a remastered version with such optimizations would be more than welcome. I hope the transition delay does not become tiresome, especially after the previous 3 games where transitions were instant.
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my name is sadde catte: My favourite age in that game is the "marble run" one...
That Age (Amateria) was the most fun indeed!
Post edited February 23, 2021 by Panaias
Posted February 23, 2021
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Panaias: I also remember the visuals being quite spectacular. If I'm not mistaken, the game featured live actors in the prerendered environment while allowing you to do a full 360-degree camera motion. That was quite unbelieavable at the time!

About the transition lags, seems there's bad news: a quick search tells me that the lag is still there no matter how powerful the PC :/ Some people mention that on each node transition the game loads the corresponding data from the hard disk, hence the delay. Well, RAM was indeed a limitation back then, so prefetching assets was not really feasible. Still, a remastered version with such optimizations would be more than welcome. I hope the transition delay does not become tiresome, especially after the previous 3 games where transitions were instant.
IIRC from a couple of years ago, the transition delays were decently minimised by doing a full installation of the game to an SSD. We're unlikely to see any engine improvements made any time soon, such things would have been done for the re-release a couple of years ago if they were going to be done.
Posted February 24, 2021
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my name is sadde catte: IIRC from a couple of years ago, the transition delays were decently minimised by doing a full installation of the game to an SSD. We're unlikely to see any engine improvements made any time soon, such things would have been done for the re-release a couple of years ago if they were going to be done.
Well, we started playing Myst 4 last night!

Unfortunately, the transition delay is there although the game is installed on my main SSD. So far it does not seem untolerable (usually up to ~2-3 sec for node transition, up to ~3-4 sec for zoom outs). We've only navigated Tomahna for now, but I hope all other Ages perform well in that matter.
Posted February 24, 2021
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Panaias: Well, we started playing Myst 4 last night!

Unfortunately, the transition delay is there although the game is installed on my main SSD. So far it does not seem untolerable (usually up to ~2-3 sec for node transition, up to ~3-4 sec for zoom outs). We've only navigated Tomahna for now, but I hope all other Ages perform well in that matter.
Wow, I have to say that's a lot slower than I remember from the time I played it a few years ago. Strange!
Posted February 24, 2021
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Panaias: Well, we started playing Myst 4 last night!

Unfortunately, the transition delay is there although the game is installed on my main SSD. So far it does not seem untolerable (usually up to ~2-3 sec for node transition, up to ~3-4 sec for zoom outs). We've only navigated Tomahna for now, but I hope all other Ages perform well in that matter.
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my name is sadde catte: Wow, I have to say that's a lot slower than I remember from the time I played it a few years ago. Strange!
Yep, it is slow.

Thankfully there's the zip mode available which allows you to teleport to other locations (I guess close by and in the same Age, still it's much appreciated).
It also works different than, say, in Riven. That was more like a single click to cover a few nodes' distance in some direction. Here it is a true teleport :) (at least I hope it is, as in Tomahna it works that way)
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussionThe first-person point 'n click adventure games thread(226 posts)(226 posts)
(226 posts)