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General discussionSo, how about a pre-built desktop?(52 posts)(52 posts)
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Posted November 01, 2020
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dtgreene: One other thing to point out:
* Gaming is not the only planned use for this computer. I may decide to compile custom Linux kernels, or even run buildroot. These tasks, in particular, benefit from more powerful CPUs and can be parallelized. (In particular, a large C/C++ program will consists of a large number of source code files, each of which is compiled separately (and can be done in parallel), then the result is linked together to form one final binary.) In another thread, I asked about the time to compile Chromium, and that is one task where a more powerful system benefits tremendously from a more powerful CPU.
Right, that's why I mentioned AMD does better with multi-threaded programs.

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dtgreene: Also, low power consumption models definitely have their uses. My laptop has such a CPU, and it actually does have some nice traits:
* Since it uses low power, I can get good battery life without the system needing a heavy battery.
* It also doesn't dissipate much heat, allowing the computer to stay at a reasonable temperature without a fan. Combine this with solid state storage, and you now have a computer with no moving parts.
* If you're into the sort of games I'm into, you can find plenty of games that run fine on them. Fell Seal: Arbiter's Mark, for example, runs spectacularly well. Also, there's the whole back catalog of games, including the likes of Wasteland 1: The Original Classic and Dragon Wars, that play just fine on the computer.
* If you'll notice, mobile phones have low power consumption CPUs and solid state storage, so devices with those traits definitely have their use.

With that said, I am aiming for something more powerful than that for my new computer.
I definitely get were you're coming from and I agree with your points. That being said, I made the "mistake" of buying a gaming laptop 2-3 years ago that had a discrete GPU as well as an energy conserving CPU and regretted it. Even though the CPU was a good 5 years newer than my desktop, the fact that it was low power using meant that it gave me much worse performance. As I was mainly playing 2d games at that time that were CPU heavy, I found that I was disappointed with this system as many semi new 2D games had frame rate issues.

Since, in your first post, you mentioned wanting to play games such as Hollow Knight (I'll also mention specifically Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night didn't play well on this gaming laptop, as you have expressed interest in it before). I would hate for someone else to spend that kind of money and be so disappointed with their purchase!
Post edited November 01, 2020 by crimson_twilight
Posted November 01, 2020
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crimson_twilight: Since, in your first post, you mentioned wanting to play games such as Hollow Knight (I'll also mention specifically Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night didn't play well on this gaming laptop, as you have expressed interest in it before). I would hate for someone else to spend that kind of money and be so disappointed with their purchase!
Note that I didn't have any problems with Fell Seal on my laptop, which may have a weaker CPU than yours (and integrated graphics to boot), and I've played both Timespinner and Celeste on my desktop without issues (though I don't remember whether my cooling was working when I played Timespinner).
Posted November 01, 2020
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dtgreene: By the way, I'm currently eyeing the AMD Ryzen 5 3400G as my CPU. Is it suitable for my needs, and is it good for the price? (I note that this CPU with integrated graphics is cheaper than the excessively high prices that dedicated GPUs seem to go for.)

Also, how does it compare to the Intel i5-4670, which is the CPU I have now, both in terms of performance (when properly cooled) and power consumption/heat?
The 3400G APU do slashes the i5 in every possible way:

1. It's faster. It also has hyper-threading, while none of the i5's have it. That means each core can have two threads going simultaneously.
2. 14nm while Intel is still on 22nm (less wattage/heat, 65W vs 84W)
3. Has a much much better Internal graphic processor (more power and less wattage/heat)
4. A lot more hardware encoders/decoders (like hevc)
5. Faster memory speeds, which AMD APUs have historically and technically benefited more from.
6. You can modify the APU to use less wattage (cTDP).
7. Higher L1 and L2 cache.

Personally, with Ryzen there literally are no reasons to go (or stay) with Intel, especially when it comes to vs wattage/price/igp/performance. Even in the TomsHardware article you can clearly see that only the i9 is worth getting if one likes to throw money down the drain just for a few more fps or a few less seconds.

The fact that the i5 line doesn't have HP makes even some i3 faster and snappier, especially on laptops, thus making the i5 less attractive. Both privately and in work related situations I've noticed this.

Another thing that I always rooted for AMD for was that they made almost every consumer CPUs/APUs have support for ECC, something that Intel only have for their enterprise line.

Does it suit your needs? Absolutely, if you're going for something small and low wattage/heat.
https://uk.pcmag.com/sound-cards/122798/amd-ryzen-5-3400g
Post edited November 01, 2020 by sanscript
Posted November 01, 2020
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dtgreene: Also, how does it compare to the Intel i5-4670, which is the CPU I have now, both in terms of performance (when properly cooled) and power consumption/heat?
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clarry: It's a slight increase in performance and probably a modest reduction in power (84W vs 65W TDP). It should include a decent cooler (wraith spire).

I can't comment on graphics performance.
Regarding Graphics is on a order of magnitude diference. The 3400G integrated graphics when properly setup (using dual channel fast RAM) is very close to a low-end dedicated GPU, like a nVidia GT1030, GTX 750ti or AMD Rx550. Support seem good on Linux if using the latest-ish Kernels.

With that said, I still think is a expensive part (at almost 150 €) for normal desktops, it's great for mini-pc's though. For roughly the same price you can have a Rx550 dedicated GPU and a much faster CPU without graphics, like the i3-10100f, Ryzen 1600AF/2600 or Ryzen 3100X/3300X.
Much higher performance all round due the faster CPU, Ram not being used by the integrated graphics and the GPU being a bit faster itself. Power and heat would not change by much.

Why this seems so complicated? Because it is.
The Ryzen 3400G is based on laptop's 2st gen Ryzen (12nm) and is somewhat slower than a comparable desktop part.
It doesn't have very good performance on latest emulators for this reason.

The 3400G 4c/8t (145€) have 4MB of L3 cache while a comparable (110€) 3100x 4c/8t have 16MB, is faster and much more efficient(being built on latest gen 7nm).
Ryzen 1600AF/2600 6c/12t have more cores to brute force on most workloads and is very fast on rendering and compiling tasks, the same as Intel 10400F.
i3-10100f 4c/8t is fast and cheap.

All in all, the 3400G is very good but have limitations, mainly due the price. I'm saying all this bluberish because I know the disappointment feel when buying a new computer and not being much faster than previous computer. That's what got me interested on hardware.

If you want to spend some time on the subject of comparisons, here is a link with lots of benchmarks, including power, rendering and compiling.
Posted November 01, 2020
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Dark_art_: AMD Rx550.

The 3400G 4c/8t (145€) have 4MB of L3 cache while a comparable (110€) 3100x 4c/8t have 16MB, is faster and much more efficient(being built on latest gen 7nm).
True. There's always a trade-off concerning size vs cost vs power.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/amd-radeon-rx-550-2gb,5034-10.html

If one is going for a low-budget to mid-level gamer PC then that combo would be better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDsGBZn6a_o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIHyRGl3HjU

And it would also cost more with the RX550 (since 3100/3100x doesn't have igp):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/MSI-RX-550-LP-OC/dp/B07DBNJCJX
https://www.amazon.co.uk/XFX-AMD-Radeon-Core-RX-550P4SFG5/dp/B071QXB522

https://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-Ryzen-3100-Processor-Cache/dp/B0876Y2TMZ
vs only
https://www.amazon.co.uk/AMD-Ryzen-3400G-Processor-Graphics/dp/B07SXNDKNM/

(Couldn't find the 3100x)
Post edited November 01, 2020 by sanscript
Posted November 03, 2020
Does the RasPi 400 have any use being mentioned here?
Posted November 03, 2020
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Darvond: Does the RasPi 400 have any use being mentioned here?
No, because it wouldn't fit my needs here. In particular:
* It can't play modern PC games. (Well, there are some it can, but they're generally games I can already play on another device.)
* It wouldn't give me significantly better compile times than any of the devices I currently have. (To give you an idea of how weak my hardware is, and why I would want something significantly better, my Raspberry Pi 4B (4G model) seems to give the best kernel compile times out of my devices.)
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Community
General discussionSo, how about a pre-built desktop?(52 posts)(52 posts)
(52 posts)