Yes, because what we need at this point is even more delays and revoting/new voting....I say we just finish the vote for this govt and then see how we proceed from there.
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That reminds me: It has been 23 hours or so since the votes started being cast officially, and 5 hours since Pooka poked RFG......did he fall into a black hole(of calcutta) or sumthin?

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Could be...who knows....all I know is this has been the most talkative voting period(by all) so far...so much to read it makes my head spin. o.0

Why do you have so much faith Joe isn't Hitler?
Did that change seeing how this government has practically no opposition apart from scene (and perhaps RFG)?

I'm getting cold feet.

Could you answer me, please? Whould like to hear your view why there is no opposition to this government.

The way I see it, possible combinations of you/Joe

L/L - by investigation GR L too. So Fascists know they lose. With 2L, 4F remaining, there is only 20% chance of me getting FFF in this case. Fascists can't be counting on it, surely they would be protesting. Don't tell me they don't want to out themselves by protesting; the alternative is they lose anyway! They'd rather go down fighting. Even if scene is F and RFG is F, there is the third fascist to account for. None of the remaining present are protesting.

F!RW/L!Joe - by investigation GR L too. Meaning you could have hidden 1L at most. So with 1L, 5F remaining, you and your fellow fascists would be counting on a 50% chance of luck helping you. Would fascists be counting willing to throw the game on a 50-50 chance? Possible. But I'm not so sure. This combination would also mean that F!RW made it 3-0 knowing two liberals are coming next. It would also mean you took a risk that Joe won't get an L in his second presidency (after the reshuffle). And you attempted to draw Joe's investigation.
That's too many chances to take. I don't see this combination as plausible.

The other options are L!RW/F!Joe and F/F.

Both mean Joe is fascist.

Sorry, Joe.

What do you think, RWarehall? See any mistake in my reasoning?

From your point of view (if you're Liberal). Myself and Joe would be:

L/L - GR L too. All the reasoning above on lack of protest applies. Surely Fascists have to go down fighting for heck's sake.

F!ZFR/L!Joe, L!ZFR/F!Joe and F/F means this government has at least one definite fascist. Why are you supporting it? You said your prime concern is not getting H into chancellorship. Why are you so sure this government won't do it?

It's about odds...

ZFR, I cannot let you be Chancellor. The possibility that Joe being a Fascist and bringing you in as Hitler into government is too real.

As to anyone else, I don't trust Scene nor Lift because they have tried to portray themselves as Liberals. RFG was a Trent sub, and I have to wonder if part of Trent's issue with a meta involved being Hitler and realizing he'd get left out by positioning. Micro is in that 5 spot Scene was pushing for at the beginning of the game.

But it's more than that. If you were to pick anyone else, it would be too easy for you to claim a conflict. Where would we be in the game with you picking outside the Core group, false-claiming a conflict with them when you were the one dropping the L? Then, of course acting on it and killing them. We'd be leaving this government with absolutely no clue who was telling the truth. Are you pure and had bad luck picking outside the Core group, or are you bad? We'd have the same problem if this government was non-Core and doesn't pass an L. Did they just drop an L, or was it Core and Joe who had dropped it?

Where if the game doesn't end, we can be pretty sure, barring a 1 in 22 chance, that someone dropped a L and only Core hands touched the deck. Of course I'd be suspected in that group too, but it would be well worth it. My goal was to force a conflict that gives us the most information in the sad event the game doesn't end now with a win.

My goal is to trap you as a possible Hitler into the Presidency and force you to bury yourself (with Joe) by either claiming 3F, or a conflict where you have to kill Joe who is likely your partner. Else, you pass a Liberal policy.

How about we don't vote this one in, top a card, then I choose GR?

Nice point.
I'm not objecting, ZFR, because I have no clue on who is who and this gov seems just as good for reasons you mentioned earlier.

Q: Would Joe's saying he'd find it distasteful if others thought two steps ahead mean that he wouldn't do the same?

If we have a conflict this gov, we either trust ZFR & blacklist Joe+GR (iirc) or the total opposite.

There was also Lift's point about ZFR backtracking on the merits of the inv. after finding out the results.

If ZFR is scum, is this all wifom to draw attention away from himself so he can get into chancellor when we skip this gov? He is so bleeding L that he might be H.

a solid alternative is skipping this gov because of ZFR note of lack of protest and moving to Lift (P) & Me (C). I know I'm not F or H, and I'm starting to trust Lift again.

@ZFR they might not be protesting because we've had two govs since reshuffle and both might have buried an L, in which case we're erely dragging this out.

@ZFRWho do you shoot if you draw 3F?

I haven't thought about it.

If I get FFL and Joe passed F, probably Joe. If FFF, I'm not sure.

I have to say that your backtracking a) makes sense--it proves you are awake & b) makes me suspect you of being H & panicking.

In what circumstance would you *not* shoot Joe if he discarded an L? I do NOT like the idea of ZFR's suggestion to skip this gov and move to GR. the same error applies. Joe cleared GR, so if Joe is scum, GR is equally suspect in my eyes.
If GR is H, Joe DEFINITELY clears H to make H aware that Joe is F. Howsomeever, as you said, ZFR & Joe are the only gov to be eleceted unanimously every time, and this worries me. tremendously. but GR/RW passed 2 F, so i dislike that as well.

Shooting Joe means we're definitely not shooting Hitler.

Because if Joe is just a Fascist and had the opportunity to drop an L, topping a card has a 5 in 6 chance of an F followed by the possibility the remaining L is in the last 2 cards to be reshuffled. Followed by a reshuffle where all those Fs go back into the deck.

As long as Joe isn't Hitler, if you are Liberal, you have either an 80% chance to draw a L or a 50% chance of one which he'd be forced to conflict. Should you not draw one, the last 3 cards are there and will have an L as long as one wasn't dropped in both of your governments.

Voting this one down means we'd have to take a chance on either a Lift or Micro government to make sure the elusive Ls are sure to come into play. And if that choice is a Fascist and picks Hitler?

And it's not as if we didn't have opposition. Scene spoke up; Micro spoke up. Others might be voting No and not saying anything.

OK, I'll revote Yes.

huh.

I removed my vote earlier. I just PMed Pooka to put it back again.

If Joe conflicts, you'd still have to shoot him. The other threat is two Liberals get killed and Fascists get to choose any government they want to win. He wouldn't be Hitler, but eliminating a known Fascist prevents 3-3 Fascist blocking with another Liberal killed.

Just not what I was expecting. I was wondering how I could convince you and whether I should be trying to convince you and why RW seems so confident in this government

and the you go and publicly state what you're voting???

my mind is reeling