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Great lands beget great wars.

Oriental Empires is now available, DRM-free on GOG.com. Get it 40% off until January 11, 2 PM UTC.

Only a vast, turn-based 4X strategy game can hope to capture the spirit of a sprawling historical period like the evolution of ancient China. Begin your journey as the leader of a single settlement and gradually expand your reach by making war, researching new technologies, and forging tactical allegiances. Watch the faithfully recreated map of the region come under your control as your troops clash in massive battlefields and your peasants toil away in the sun to support your empire's growing population.
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Trilarion: What is the balance between strategy and tactics here? If I like to take my time and think and don't want to command every single unit, will this game be fun for me?
There really isn't any tactics, you just assign orders to individual units (like charge, or ambush) and they try to apply those when in battle, but you don't control your troops directly.

The game is all about creating a strong economy, using diplomacy to stay at peace until you're ready for war, then having a bigger, better army than your opponents. You can win without crushing everyone else via a culture victory, but even that involves having a big enough army to defend yourself.
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Trilarion: What is the balance between strategy and tactics here? If I like to take my time and think and don't want to command every single unit, will this game be fun for me?
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mystral: There really isn't any tactics, you just assign orders to individual units (like charge, or ambush) and they try to apply those when in battle, but you don't control your troops directly.

The game is all about creating a strong economy, using diplomacy to stay at peace until you're ready for war, then having a bigger, better army than your opponents. You can win without crushing everyone else via a culture victory, but even that involves having a big enough army to defend yourself.
So the main thing for winning battles in this game is bringing a larger army?
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mystral: There really isn't any tactics, you just assign orders to individual units (like charge, or ambush) and they try to apply those when in battle, but you don't control your troops directly.

The game is all about creating a strong economy, using diplomacy to stay at peace until you're ready for war, then having a bigger, better army than your opponents. You can win without crushing everyone else via a culture victory, but even that involves having a big enough army to defend yourself.
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Trilarion: So the main thing for winning battles in this game is bringing a larger army?
Yes mostly, but you can also win with better troops or the right tactics. I mean, 8 units of basic militias will lose against 2 or 3 trained swordsmen with ambush tactics.

But the game is much more focused on building up your economy and diplomacy than Total War games.
Hi Everyone

Just released an update for this, focused mainly on the AI. Key points are

AI

Improved AI's economic balance between buildings and army
AI will keep a minimum army size
Improved unit diversity in AI recruitment
Improved AI movement of armies
AI can build naval units

Custom Games

Added ability to set starting era in custom games. All the tech from previous era's is available, and some edicts are already issued.
Ability to have random AI controlled factions. The player still controls whichever faction he selects.

Multiplayer

Added ability to assign factions randomly in MP. All players, including the host, are assigned a faction at random.
Added hidden humans ability in MP. If this is selected, then the UI is adjusted so that no indication is given of which factions are human and which AI controlled. Diplomacy with AI factions has a delay, and functions the same as with human players. Random factions must be selected by the host in the initial faction selection screen for the hidden humans option to be available.

Diplomacy

Reduced offensive alliance diplomatic spam. AI won't ask for alliances against those enemies it can't reach
Can't declare war on vassals if you have a peace accord or fraternal harmony pact with their overlord
Less 1 coin diplomacy
Fixed a serious bug that was stopping inter AI diplomacy working correctly.

Misc

Reduced effectiveness of land troops against naval. Previous fix accidentally doubled it :(.
Fixed a bug that stopped naval units moving adjacent to large land stacks
Buildings can't be deleted if existing or queued building depends on them
Fixed issue with city list not being scrolled correctly in city list view
Fixed game allowing too many factions in custom games on small maps made in the map editor. Removes crashes and weirdness in these types of game
Just released a new update.

This update’s main feature is the scenario editor. This lets you create scenarios similar to the Warring States scenario, which is already in the game. With the scenario editor, you can define your own factions, easily place cities, buildings and armies, and even include your own faction symbols. Unfortunately GOG doesn't have a workshop for sharing these, but you can send the files to your friends.

This update also includes a number of bug fixes and improvements.

Read the full changelog below, and enjoy!

Battles:

Fixed battles sometimes not resolving properly in single player when the player doesn't view them.
Improved siege initiation. Stack can begin attack if any stacks around the settlement can breach the walls.
Units dismount and artillery stay unpacked if two hexes away from the city wall.
Artillery oriented towards settlement at the start of the battle phase.
Large trebuchets don't stop firing when first rope puller killed.
Spare artillery crew re-assigned duties between turns, so the engine can continue to work even with some crew losses.
Fixed crash when land units without flaming ammo fire at ships.
Fixed some stats for faction specific units.


Settlements:

Can now delete roads. Use the delete key to remove the roads in the hex under the cursor when in road building mode in the settlement view.
Fixed bug when irrigated farms leave farms behind when their city is destroyed.
Settlements can take over resources when previously owning settlement is destroyed.
AI won't auto build farms on potential mine sites.


Multiplayer:

Fixed being assigned an eliminated player when joining a hidden humans game.
Changed save game name of hidden humans game to not include faction name.
Fixed battle indicators showing for human players in MP hidden humans mode.


Other:

Changed font for the Chinese version
Added ability to import a map from png file into the map editor. Mainly intended to work with files from the Demis Map Server.
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TrueDosGamer: That's probably because you are from Singapore. The word "oriental" has a negative connotation attached to it from the United States side and since this is an English word you probably are unaware and have no experience of the history of this word. While you may not be offended individually it is because you are yourself unaware of this history being born in a predominantly Asian majority country. Perhaps one day you would be enlightened. Now in Singapore there are many different types of people there. I know some percentage of people might be Malay or Indian there as well are both these people grouped into the "oriental" category? Are you of full Chinese descent or other?
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HunchBluntley: Oriental means "eastern". That's all. It is not a slur (unlike other terms I'm sure I need not mention). As a descriptor of a person, it's a very antiquated term, and is probably best avoided (when describing people, anyway) for that reason alone; however, it's a more-or-less neutral descriptor. Any negative connotations are largely in the mind of the hearer/reader.

If some Asian people dislike the appellation, that's their prerogative. But let them make the complaint, instead of trying to condescend ("Perhaps one day you would be enlightened.") to tell other people what random words they should be offended by.
Oriental means "eastern" when applied appropriately and preferably used as "Orient". Why do you think I suggested using the alternative title "Empires of the Orient"? And as far as it being a slur it's not a full on slur as you alluded to more aggressive intentionally directly racist ones but still offensive stemming from the past. Even the suggestion from "He's a little oriental" from movie Dragon: The Bruce Lee story during the Green Hornet and Kato scene alludes to it referring to his eyes and to make sure he keeps the mask on scene it's not meant as a neutral term. Even in the 90s it certainly was demonstrated that it had a negative connotation inherited from the past which is what you seem to be unaware of.

How is this condescension? This is merely foreshadowing the possibility of a possible future event where he may realize its meaning later in life. Say this k1bell you're trying to defend "we don't even know his race" has a son. But let's say he's Singaporean of some Chinese, Malaysian, or other Asian and ends up in the United States one day and has kids and hears these words directed at them. Now maybe some redneck wouldn't know any better and probably meant no harm but in other contexts when typically used is meant to harm or disparage the individual. Since you labeled yourself a "language enthusiast" you really haven't studied up enough about Asian histories in the 60s-70s leading to present times and how such a word has been used in a more derogatory fashion. Ever heard of the word "negro" and do you go around calling people that of African descent?

Just because "k1bell" from Singapore comes from a predominantly Asian populated majority country doesn't understand or comprehend this doesn't mean this is being condescending to him or her but alerting to the fact one day they may understand what I'm talking about or a descendant of his who happens to migrate to a where they are a minority. If is you jumping to the conclusion it's condescending without understanding the full nature of the word itself or its history.

Since you yourself are located in the United States either you are not from an area that either has a population of Asians or know of any to make that judgment to say that. Maybe ask around some people from the 1940s-1970s if possible of Asian descent born in America to get some perspective. It's not some "random" word with no significant meaning and I'm willing to bet you will find some if they are truly open to you they will tell you the truth.

The title was intentionally chosen by the game makers. You think they actually decided if Eastern Empires or Asian Empires was a possible title? Or even Chinese Empires? Like I said before. They could have used "Empires of the Orient" which would have been an acceptable title and in this case the people themselves are not described as "Oriental" or "Orientals" but Empires of the "Orient" meaning East as others have already stated including yourself.

Again I'm not judging the game content itself as being offensive but the title could have been better selected which was the point of the original post. Even other games of the past such as Broderbund's infamous "The Ancient Art of War" is an awesome title and game without being even remotely offensive and dealt a lot with Asian related warfare.
Post edited December 14, 2018 by TrueDosGamer
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TrueDosGamer: That's probably because you are from Singapore. The word "oriental" has a negative connotation attached to it from the United States side and since this is an English word you probably are unaware and have no experience of the history of this word. While you may not be offended individually it is because you are yourself unaware of this history being born in a predominantly Asian majority country. Perhaps one day you would be enlightened. Now in Singapore there are many different types of people there. I know some percentage of people might be Malay or Indian there as well are both these people grouped into the "oriental" category? Are you of full Chinese descent or other?
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k1bell: ROFL.
So you are so 'enlightened' and I'm a savage who needs to be educated by your superior intellect/education?
What a load of bullshit.
Luckily for me though, I ain't gonna be bothered wasting time and energy arguing with an internet random when I could buy and tryout this game instead.
Good luck to you, Enlightened One.
ROTFLMAO. How do you label yourself a savage because you're from Singapore? You do know that Hong Kong and Singapore are both quite advanced even back to the 80s from memory they were quite ahead of mainland China even then from an industrialized stand point. You're only insulting yourself for whatever reason calling yourself a savage and dumbing down your own intellectual capacity when I'm talking about experience which is emotional. Racism isn't an intellectual thing learned but experienced. You're in Singapore so I doubt being in the majority your own upbringing you would have faced this on a daily basis and again you're entitled to your experiences which should have been positive overall and these words would have no effect.

I'm only suggesting that while you won't understand how the word is used because the lack of experiences involving it that would affect you but it could affect your kids one day as an example if they went to a non Asian majority country. Since you're the internet random who responded I kindly responded back to your first posting.

Good luck and Happy Gaming.
Post edited December 14, 2018 by TrueDosGamer
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TrueDosGamer: That's probably because you are from Singapore. The word "oriental" has a negative connotation attached to it from the United States side and since this is an English word you probably are unaware and have no experience of the history of this word. While you may not be offended individually it is because you are yourself unaware of this history being born in a predominantly Asian majority country. Perhaps one day you would be enlightened. Now in Singapore there are many different types of people there. I know some percentage of people might be Malay or Indian there as well are both these people grouped into the "oriental" category? Are you of full Chinese descent or other?
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mystral: If I were Asian, I'd feel far more offended by your condescension than by a random word in a game's title. You are aware that you sound like a self-righteous asshole in this post, right?

I'll agree that due to the game's nature, it would have been more appropriate to call it "Chinese Empires" instead of "Oriental" since to anyone from a western country, oriental can mean anything from the Middle East to Japan. But maybe the devs have plans to expand the game's scope via DLC or something. Either way, it's not really your place to criticize imo.
You're not which is probably why you aren't even aware of its alternative meaning which probably makes it comes off as such to you. You're from Christmas Island which sounds like a great location especially this time of the year. Doing a little digging as your location sounded interesting.

Ethnic groups:
21.2% Chinese
12.7% Australian
18% Malay
7% English
2.5% Irish
41.8% other

Wow a pretty diverse breakdown with no real super majority. It seems like a lot of multiracial people probably inhabit the island. It almost sounds like the US equivalent of Hawaii for Australia. Coming from this region of the world I can see probably there seems to be more balance and harmony where you live so these words that can have meaning from a majority directed towards a small minority that is non Caucasian probably doesn't pan out.

At least there is some agreement. The title was intentionally chosen by the game makers. You think they actually decided if Eastern Empires or Asian Empires was a possible title? Or even Chinese Empires? Like I said before. They could have used "Empires of the Orient" which would have been an acceptable and a more respectable title and in this case the people themselves are not described as "Oriental" or "Orientals" but Empires of the "Orient" meaning East as others have already stated. Again it's not like a game name change has never occurred and I brought it up early on to give the developers a chance to listen. Had a game been called "Negro Empires" I would have had the same stance and suggested alternatives like "African Empires" during its early stage in development. So yes it is our place to criticize as the users are the ones who are going to buy the game and if say this is geared at all toward an Asian majority as their target demographic then yes they should listen. Even a simple name change out of respect is a small price to pay for a developer. Bigger titles have changed game names before. "Out of This World" was changed to "Another World" in the USA. But I think this had more to with copyrights and a TV show was airing with that name.

Again I'm not judging the game content itself as being offensive but the title could have been better selected which was the point of the original post. Even other games of the past such as Broderbund's infamous "The Ancient Art of War" is an awesome title and game without being even remotely offensive and dealt a lot with Asian related warfare. I hold these with more respect even being dated back in the 1980s. Now from a technical standpoint being on GOG they should have at least considered a Windows 2000 or XP port given the game's requirements it would run just fine on it as plenty of people are still using retro OS machines to do their gaming offline. Think of Warcraft 1 and 2 which were great titles. "Empires of the Orient" would have become one of them without limiting the scope even as a DLC. "Empires Of the Orient: Persia" could have been a DLC branch add on for example. Later they might even retitle the original "Empires Of The Orient: China" similar to how King's Quest became retitled King's Quest 1: Quest for the Crown.
Post edited December 14, 2018 by TrueDosGamer
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TrueDosGamer: That's probably because you are from Singapore. The word "oriental" has a negative connotation attached to it from the United States side and since this is an English word you probably are unaware and have no experience of the history of this word.
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Huinehtar: As other HunchBluntley said, it means "Eastern", and FYI, it was used from a European side back when the USA didn't even exist.
Used from strategic, diplomatic, mercantile, cultural points of view. Sometimes on a negative note, but sometimes on neutral or positive notes, especially when used to sell goods coming from the Silk Road. Even cities were named as such because they were ports where ships coming from the Levant full of goods from Middle East and afar.
Last times when terms like "oriental empires" were considered as offensive terms, were because some western people refused to agree that eastern countries could have empires too, capable to rival the western empires in cultural ways and in terms of power.

As mystral said, maybe the title here is used to further add other countries, in the opposite way game series like Cossacks went (lots of people I knew back when the first game released weren't aware the game wasn't only focused on cossacks but had many other playable countries...).

So, can we go back to gaming?
I appreciate your response from a historical perspective and I'm sure during those times they might have called themselves middle people since they thought the world revolved around them. But Europeans are no longer at the top of the food chain and the US is now. Since we are all mainly interacting in English on GOG it will adhere more to the US modern meaning than some distant one several centuries ago. I'm sure most movies come from the U.S. at this point and have a lot of influence in society. But HunchBluntley's definition of it meaning only "Eastern" is incorrect. In the far past I'll agree that the victor will be able to choose their words for historical perspectives. This is a modern game release not released in 1700s or 1800s were the original and then meaning of the word may have been non derogatory.

Now you're conflating the two words as if Empire is offensive. But personally there's nothing wrong with the word "Empires" at all by itself. Even Roman Empire still evokes power today. But Roman isn't a derogatory word to its people.

However since people tend to think of only one meaning of the word "oriental" from all the responses as it only means east and ignoring the rest you can look it up online.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/oriental

adjective
1. ( usually initial capital letter ) of, relating to, or characteristic of the Orient, or East; Eastern.
2. of the orient, or the eastern region of the world or heavens: oriental countries;

noun
5. ( usually initial capital letter ) Older Use : Usually Disparaging and Offensive . a native or inhabitant of the Orient, or East.

If you read closely even you can find definition #5 - "usually disparaging and offensive" term.

Since "Oriental Empires" the Game focuses on the Chinese / Asian people you can only conclude Oriental Empires means Oriental people. Similarly to if I had said French Empires we are talking about the French people.

The title "Empires of the Orient" where the word "Orient" is used appropriately instead of the offensive term "Oriental" when describing the people.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/orient?s=t

noun

the Orient,
1. the countries of Asia, especially East Asia.
(formerly) the countries to the E of the Mediterranean.

Now they just released a DLC called Genghis for Genghis Khan.

They could have renamed the original game easily.
"Empires Of The Orient"

"Empires Of The Orient" : Genghis DLC
or
"Empires Of The Orient" : Genghis Kahn DLC

People would have known it was part of "Empires Of The Orient" franchise.

Which is why I stated renaming it to "Empires of the Orient" would have been a good title choice going forward.

It could even be called EOTO, EOTO:GK for short.

Like I said before I have nothing against the contents of the game. You can return to your fine gaming.
Post edited December 14, 2018 by TrueDosGamer