It has been eons since i last logged in Battle net. I saw that "Heroes of the Storm" and that "Hearthstone". They say to be free, but damn my eyeballs, i NEVER again believe blizzard again. Are they any pay to win crap? Do they have in-game store or something? Auction House maybe?

Are they any fun to play, or wasted time at best?

Heroes of the Storm is not pay to win and i like it. You can buy cosmetic items, and activate heroes faster with real money. But there are free rotation and you can activate heroes with ingame gold too.

I didnt play Hearthstone much.... but i felt it is pay to win game. People who buy card packs, usually win the match because they have stronger cards.

Thanks for the info!

Pay to win refers to something(item/character) that you can ONLY get using real money. I never played Heroes of the Storm, but from what I remember don't they sell Stimpaks? Which doubles the amount of ingame gold that you earn? Now that's something I would call closer to pay to win.

In contrast Hearthstone doesn't have anything similar(by the way I have been playing Hearthstone since the beta). In Hearthstone the only buyable item are card packs, which you can also get for 100 ingame gold, and you get them free in various ways by playing the game. Each week you get 1 card pack for playing the tavern brawl. There's a daily quest that gets 1 card pack. If you spend 150 in game gold, you can play the arena which guarantees 1 card pack and extra rewards like gold and dust.

Starcraft II has really good pathfinding.... ehh that's about the only good thing I can say about newBlizzard

No, it doesn't need that for it to be pay to win. It only needs the game mechanics to be tuned towards making progression markedly slower/more difficult unless you shell out money.

But if you are require to grind a very long time to have a decent deck without paying, that's effectively pay to win.

Of course, but in Hearthstone, I feel like the grind is way below that point. And you feel that in Hearthstone the progression is slower than in what other free to play game?

I wasn't commenting about Hearthstone (or any other game) - just defining what PTW is. I have no idea whether Hearthstone meets that definition or not, since I've never played it.

I donno if it has been improve, last I check it is like this

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So if you have a 50% winrate it only takes you 167hours. If we do the math with 10min per game.

If your able to play 2hours a day (quite a lot), then you will have your golden hero easy peasy in 83.5 days.

For all every Hero (9), you need only 751.5 days. Less then 3 years dude... nothing :)

If you work for 2 hours more each day you get ~80$ more (depends on the job i took an average in Switzerland).

So 83.5 x 80 = 6'680 or 751.5 x 80 = 60'120!

So my conclusion is: If you enjoy your work the same amount as you enjoy Hearthstone, you should definitly work :D

Greeeeeeetz and enjoy the Game
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If you need 2+ years to unlock 9 heroes, and don't feel the grind, you are a very patience man.

But here you are talking about a feature that can't be bought... What does this have to do with pay to win? If get 500 wins with the Paladin, then your Paladin hero portrait is animated. It's purely cosmetic, and if anything it shows just how much free time you spent on a game

Ha, their name is quite good as well. There is no Diablo after 2, just some software to part idiots from money, no offence OP, they don't have enough money to take their crap away from them nowadays. Another company ruined by accountants.

You are correct, I replied to you right after I replied to Gnostic, and got your comments mixed togheter. My fault, and I do agree with your addendum to my simplistic "definition". But in my defense, this thread is about Hearthstone and Heroes of the storm, and my "definition" was in this context. For both of these games I do not find the grind aspect to be that accentuated.

You are correct about that. I don't know about the game much.

How long does it take to get to your level?

I'm sorry, I don't understand your question. Is it how long I've played Hearthstone? Blizzard doesn't tell you that, but I have almost 1000 play wins and almost 500 arena wins. Assuming 50% win rate, I must have played about 3000 games. So 3000 games * 10 minutes per game = 30000 minutes. So I must have played Hearthstone for around 500 hours. Seems like way too much considering that I haven't played at all in the last 3 days.