I'll just say, I'm not liking the case for that being a DayVig and not a SK. The shot was taken pretty early in the process on a player whose death seems to give us very little (not to mention who was absent for 3 days). It was a new player to boot.

While Nacho or Tammy could be an option for SK, I'm not sure its enough when neither player is coming off as all that scummy. It was a better play for Yogs because I find him very suspicious and think he very well might be scum except, I do believe him about SK given his response and he wouldn't do that.

Dessimu does seem to arguably be lurking in plain sight. I can kinda see this. He's also not the only one. Although then the question becomes for me, would I want him more than Yogs who is mostly guilty of the same. I'd probably prefer Yogs. I think both cases have merit.

Then it keeps coming back to Babark. Docbear fled without response. Then Babark went all OMGUS. The part that bothers me is we didn't get a claim and not a lot of help either. While I'm concerned that no solid wagon was pushed, its not like there was no talk about counterwagons. There are people who essentially bowed out of voting on these grounds, so we did in essence get a counterwagon. The question is was the lynch losing steam scum manipulated or merely town reluctance...

Babark just seems unfinished without an actual claim.

Re-Vote Babark
At the very least until I see more than "I didn't do it. They caught the wrong guy" like 95% of prison inmates.
Hint hint: If this gets back toward L-1, I strongly suggest you claim. And maybe some analysis might help too. What do you think of Dessimu or Yogs for example.

There are no kill triggers in this game other than modkills (which will be specifically denoted as such)

arguing that something / someone is behaving in an anti-town manner makes a valid post for Sundown

I agree with the last 2/3 of that anyway. Though this is Maine, so you should have gone with:

Dessimu: What about you? What are you in here for?
Babark: Murder, same as you.
Dessimu: Innocent?
Babark: [shakes his head] Only guilty man in Shawshank. Errr, I mean Oakwood.


I think I'm inclined to stick with babs after sleeping on it. While Dess is slightly tempting, it's still just gut voting, a total POS wagon if he flips town, and there's no guarantee we'll hit 8 votes there either since there's no good basis for his wagon other than lurking/gut.

Wrote a longer justification to be more sundown compliant but deleted it.

I am disappointed there are so many agnostic voices - I know everyone who is town is working with great uncertainty, but man...

@Babark - Even if you won't give reads, per se, would you vote for Dess? why/why not? would you vote for yogs? why/why not? would you vote for Stan why/why not?

I guess what I'm saying is, you probably got your reprieve, make something of it. Help us. Show us we were right to drop it.

As a matter of fact...Oh Ixam, where for art thou? Dost thou hast any suggestions for the rest of us peons?

While I think Ixam's claim would be hard to fabricate and gets him off the hook [for ISO compliance purposes], at least for now, I'd still like to see more from him as well.

FWIW, while I've found a lot of RW's arguments a bit off-kilter (clearly we don't see eye to eye on a number of things) and that makes me suspect him a bit, I guess I just have a hard time buying that scum!RW is going to a) be the most visible face on a mislynch while b) simultaneously and somewhat obstinately pushing his SK theory.

One or the other, sure. And I can see the value in scum!RW setting up a town vig for mislynch. Totally.

But look at it from a functional perspective: if there is an SK (or a vig with multiple shots) they're going to look at him pretty closely - good case for shooting him because "he looked scummy." Don't even need to draw a town majority to get knocked out of the game, just having pissed off the wrong person.

If it had been me there was a point where I was kinda wishing I could just shoot him. Plus if I had to guess I suspect he's raised his investigative profile if babs does flip town.

All of that put together, tactically...unless there's really someone else on scum!RW's team who's deep wolf, I just don't really see him playing it quite this way as scum, and not because I doubt his ability to.

Town him rides babark and SK theories because he believes it. Scum him I think chooses his battles with a little more care lest he get lynched or copped or worst of all shot.

WIFOM and all, but I have a hard time believing it when I stop and think about the implications. I think scum!RW would have thought them through as well, esp. given the number of chances he's been handed to back off.

Plus he could have tried goading me into revealing who I think it is, even indirectly by asking for more "evidence" and he hasn't, unless he's hoping my own stubborness will push me to prove myself right by laying it all out.

So I'm sundowning RW here.


Sweet baby Jesus yes, but to me that list looks like:

Wyrm
babs
Dess
Quad
Ix
yogs
Brasas
Nacho

Only, you know, a majority of players. ><

___

I know I juuuust said I was set on babs, but yogs open willingness to chase wagons regardless of quality has me somewhat revisiting the need to just remove him from the equation. To all appearances scum don't even have to openly blackmail him, just let him run.

This is Arthur Dent on steroids, but at least Leonard made a show of evaluating suspect/wagon quality and trying to look like a townie who wasn't a primary threat before piling on. Yogs' game is "Make a wagon and I'll be there."

Sigh. 1) babs and dear god we'd better be right or we are in serious trouble as early as D2 if yogs' game holds
2) yogs. And if not, I really hope this is all elaborate D1 performance art.

Not really. I still think babark's non-claim is a pretty good indication that he's not a bad lynch for today. We've all but begged him to false claim several times.

I think we're mistaken if we think we're going to find a magic scum bullet today and that it's high time to let the roles get some reads, plus move the game along. Pseudo mastubatory wagons like we've had today really only serve to confuse things. Several real wagons that get lynches are the ones that matter.

You have to break eggs to make an omelette, and I'm getting hungry.

'Tisn't!

There are a whole bunch of players I'm not willing to vote for.

Like... that guy with the blue. And what's-her-face. And I think HSL is ok.

October 27, 1696 -

The rest of the villagers convince those that wanted to head off for Nashua today that the likelihood of a threat is high and that it could be reckless and catastrophic if they prematurely recall everyone to Oakwood Village.

"Just give us one more day of discussion, we'll do a final vote tonight before we conclude the meeting and it will be settled whether or not we think there is Evil among us in some form, who it is, and if we should kill them. If there are witches or werewolves or both among us or something else entirely, hopefully we'll be correct in our resolve and strike at them before they strike at us. Help us figure out who it could be!"

"Okay, the rest of you very well could be right. We'll stay, for one more day's discussions. Now do your best convincing."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

here is how the villagers currently stand:
4 villagers want to kill Nathaniel (Nathan) Smith [Dessimu] -- Sarah (TammyTown), Emily (trentonlf), Eric (yogsloth), Marie (bler144),

4 villagers want to kill Laura Jennings [babark] -- William (QuadrAlien), Claire (cristigale), Emma (Ixamyakxim), Adam (RWarehall),

2 villagers want to kill Adam Johnson [RWarehall] -- Laura (babark), Craig (Bookwrym627),

2 villagers want to kill Justin Dawson [Stanari] -- Dan (Brasas), Sean (Lifthrasil),

2 villagers don't want to kill anyone -- Nathan (Dessimu), Justin (Stanari),

1 villager wants to kill Sean O'Donnell (Sean-O!) [Lifthrasil] -- Fergus (Nachomamma8),

**************************************************************************************************************

if your vote is not displayed to be where you want it, say so, and I'll correct this votecount / vote-count / vote count

Almost time for work. On the topic of SK. How do I put this...

While you think you see a possible Vig, I don't see how that helps uncover a SK. They both have different motivations to do what they do. A Vig would be seeking out threats to Town while a SK will be taking out threats to his own person. In other words, if there is a SK, I don't think it necessarily or very likely would be the same individual you are pegging for Vig. And all revealing would do is out someone you suspect to be town with a role without helping the hunt for the actual SK. So no, it would be foolish to out someone you think is a town role.

While revealing might help resolve this issue now, time should also resolve it (i.e. no extra kills makes it a likely one-shot and not a SK). If multiple shots, choice of future targets should also add more clarification to whether it really is a Vig or SK. While I thought I was onto something, doubt I can narrow the field enough to make it worth anything today.

Of course you don't do this! A potential Day Vig with more "shots" can come in very useful and I would expect scum to try to kill them over the other weird people claimed or hinted so far. I mean maybe I'm too stupid about the roles but please keep it in your pants this time?

Like, someone (hint: me) said Nacho was on the list to vote if anything got moving in his direction.

I have been looking at him, but it's inconclusive and I feel conflicted. In a nutshell I really dislike his misrepresentaions of what I said, bordering on flat out lying. When he's not interacting with me though, I kinda like his posts.

Stan, what the heck is this? These two are not an OR, they're an AND. Right?

At this stage, his wagon would be all kinds of lynch lurkers or not bullshit and you know it. Something is very off about your game and I really wish I could take a peek at what the heck you're thinking.

Dess should be pressured, because he always lurks and needs to be resolved somehow, but the timing is awful.

I understand your progression to vote Dess. I disagree with it as should be obvious by the fact I'm still on Stan despite not really scum reading her. This is a quagmire as it is, I think we need to focus rather than broaden perspectives to close the day.

Bler, I'm pretty beat right now. I'm not even sure I'm thinking straight. I really want to post the analysis of Nacho / Wyrm with details before game night. I just can't push myself to do that today.

The thing is, I don't mind driving, and I think I'm more focused at it than you. But the volume is nuts. The posting has slowed down, but it's still a lot of players to try and keep sorted somehow.

And in truth, I think I was very clear on what I proposed, just not why I proposed all of it. With Stan as the counterwagon I was clear. With the other 4 or five names I gave I kept the powder dry to save time.

And really, babark might be scum. You might be scum. Just because I have Marie as a strong town lean, and Laura as a derp town read does not mean I'm right. So I really don't see what you expect from me.

Please be more specific I guess is my point. I kind of said it earlier, you should focus more. I did not really have to fake that part of the attack on you. Despite reading you as town, I think you're not 100% helpful?

Probly me. I appreciate the Mason essay. Apparently I was not too far from groking the role.

It's about diversity mate. 4 eyes see better than two blah blah.

I don't get this. You think he's got a death wish? Why would anyone want to be vigged? Just so the alignment becomes public?

Heh. Whenever you say you would never do X, my spine tingles. No matter what X is.

You're still trolling. But I appreciate the dejavu from the previous game. Go all in, tell town to not vote drealmer and let scum hammer him. Oh wait, there's no freaking hammer in this game... >:(

Has everyone forgotten Quad's post about a trial? Am I despite being sleep deprived the only one paying attention?

Bah. It's easy to forget ppl this game. Quad and Nacho at this time for example. But maybe more even.

I want to cry now :( Because I wish, I really do wish.

It's like, lying is whatever, I'm sure I'd be able to flat out lie in Mafia as I do in Resistance. But the open setups are much more challenging than I imagined. And the lack of clear voting patterns so much more trouble to analyze. The previous game with Vitek really gave me a wrong impression of how this would feel.

So, you enjoy getting tied up?

Yes, I do remember when you "did" shit, like, literally, in the game.

Which come to think of it, you would make a double entendre about that... funny Yogs :)

Pot, meet kettle. :P

Thanks. Just to be clear, you were scum hunting PRs?

Thanks/ also for the next post.

Anyway, give me a reason I should "lock" you as town?

And I was quite proud of the tequila joke...

[refreshes... sighs... perseveres... ignores that one hour at least has passed typing typing reading readng... strangely not so tired now as was before... I wonder if that means anything...]

Hear hear. But if someone can make silver bullets please do so.


G#$% f$%^$ing dammit...

It reads to me like deadline approaching. Can I suggest we ask the players on the lowest count wagons to move to any of the ones above until we have just one hopefully? Anything to get us to some kind of consensus, so we do not have flip flops during the trial itself and end with no lynch afterall. Please? Pretty please?

there was an error in the votecount, it has been corrected

current vote count

Unvote Dessimu

Vote Babark

I don't get it. Half the time people are saying that my lack of a claim is good because that means I'm not scummy, and the other half I'm being asked why I haven't claimed yet.

Was there any confusion? I'm town, don't lynch me. There (and I don't know about prison inmates, but that's the first time I'm saying that like that. I mean, it's weird.. did someone think I felt otherwise?)

As for my thoughts...people keep bringing up Dessimu. There some reason I should be suspicious of Des? Why should I want to vote for him?
Bookwyrm seems to have co-opted some sort of weird leadership position among us villagers? :D Maybe as a counterpoint to bler who wants to also appear to be the reasonable thinking person of the group.
bler talks a lot and gives a lot of detail, but sometimes I get the feeling that it is more a pre-determined opinion that has been settled and is now being built towards rather than exploring and looking for answers.
I don't know about Tammy. Seems to be too explicitly hiding behind inexperience, but then again, Tammy seems to be new?
My (pointless) vote is still on RW, seeing as he is so adamantly pushy that I'm scum, and since I know I'm not, there's obviously something wrong here. I mean, he basically said he sees no out for me at all. So on the small chance he's not scum, he's really bad at making decisions and reading people.
And as I've already said, Yog is too obvious to be scum. Makes no sense to vote for him.
Dunno about Quad...just realised, he's been in hiding the past two days, with his last post stating why RW is a bad lynch candidate? Lurking seems to be a very effective tactic against me :D. Quad doesn't even have a single vote. Wasn't there a wagon on him earlier?

Oh, by the way, babark, not bareback or barback :O. Like Sex BoBomb, but with Bark. Or vocalising the sound a dog makes, while you have hiccups :p.

Also, with talking about Quad, sorry for my own sporadic appearances. I've got a pretty hectic life these days, and my gogtime is after I come back home from a long day of work (usually around 9pm), before I go to sleep, so usually just once a day (although during a free moment or two while I'm out, I open up the forums and see if I can catch up. Anyhow, it's a bit of a chore at that point going through dense pages of accusations and overanalysis- I keep forgetting every single game that I'm doing this for fun and enjoyment, not for a "proper game" or to "win" or something. Next time, hopefully, then.

Unvote babark

Vote Dessimu