I'm going to defend Nacho here for whatever you're accusing him of.

But seriously...what's your track-record for tone-reading GoG players so far in prior games? Pretty good, then? ;)

Maybe we're just an alien bunch who defies your usual customs. I read the vote hop as null, personally. Maybe not the high-value play in terms of moving a counter-wagon, but has strong AtE value. Agree the OMGUS is sincere, though not sure it's alignment indicative.

Still, looking at that Dess quote looks more like an actual slip to me than what RW is accusing doc on, so...IDK. Gut swinging back to dess a bit.

What's your take on Dess's reads list, particularly the possibility that his read on doc is a slip?

Anyway, going to do non-mafia stuff for an hour or two. Will check in before bed.

Don't know. Assume to be right in reading meta. To assume, take her point of view. Does it align to any particular player/-s and changes accordingly? I did not see that.

I am not the best in gathering hard facts as in "he said it/she said it; it leads to that; that means (s)he's the...". But in my previous games that I played, my senses were not too much off. I trust them enough to share them.

And it would be utterly stupid not examine me. For what it's worth, even though I was pre occupied with travel and work, still - there was never a single game where I would get so little attention. Sure, leave the old smith to his own tools.

You. Come on over.

Unless I'm missing something you're reading a bit much into it at least as a pattern.

Yogs is playing exactly like he wants us to think he's Survivor. Still doubt he's mafia. Whether he is Survivor or not IDK, but he piled onto Ix's wagon similarly, and I suspect he'd probably be piling on whatever wagon was most convenient. He hasn't been subtle in his "kill anybody now" campaign and doesn't look like he's making much effort to move the needle toward or away from anyone.

Were going to see this vote regardless of who it was.

Ix is still going to have everyone's attention either D2 or D3 regardless of the flip so he doesn't gain or lose with a lazy vote imo.

Is there anyone else's vote I'm missing here that you don't like?


This just...feels earnest?

I mean, factually I don't love it since it implies having looked at not only how her play compares to 15 other players (17-Dess-doc) but also combos of those players since she could still be taking bits from each teammate.

But I can believe that Dess believes it and would say it? I love you. Stay you, man.

Okay, actually defending Dess. I'm down to 3 I'll consider and I think even Lift is a distant 3rd. Lynching yogs today seems the safe bet, but he's doing this soooo pointedly I have to wonder if he's got a trick up his sleeve, and am a bit curious to see it play.

Sticking with my vote as is. Off to bed.

Oh, probably amuses no one but me, but I've had "I shot the sheriff, but I did not shoot the depSushi" running through my head off and on tonight.

Night!

It took me a second to understand what in God's sweet name you were talking about. -287391/19283192

I mean. I'm not even really good at tonereading players from my homesite. I think babark-scum requires that babark be playing to a certain archetype of scumplay. Which is more possible that I first thought, especially given my blather about why Ix is town.

What kind of player is babark? I can see a reading where it's not a slip.

The readslist as a whole is kinda... ghhhh. Boring. Waffly. Weasel-word-y. Which might be the tonal thing I caught earlier, the noncommittal twisting away from stances.

PPE: 1158 is kind of a good post actually.

Yea for Sundown. This Day has lasted way too long. Either we did something to cause the shift or we reached a time limit. Given that the game has basically spanned two weeks, I'm guessing we hit the time limit. If not, Tomorrow it would be worth discussing what triggered the shift to sundown. I had a chance during lunch to read a bit - wondered if everyone needs to have a vote for a move to occur.

What stood out to me, if barbak is scum, Lift's recent votes (yogs and second Stanari) felt like a scum attempt to draw attention away from babark. And then in his last post:

Was this an attempt to cover for it?

Granted, I'm seeing this through the lens of 'I think we have a better than average D1 chance of hitting scum with barbark'. If barbark is lynched and flips scum, Lift would be my new number 1 suspect.

Perhaps I'm tunneling now, but I'm still good with my vote on babark.


As for yogs, not sure what he is implying about the work he's doing. I did a very quick ISO skim and noticed this:
I did not notice this originally. With DragonSushi's death, this now stands out. It was posted long before Dragon's departure.
@yogs - do you want to say any more about this?

You need to be lynched for stealing my idea. :P

2a) Did I mention I'm speaking from experience? Because I'm speaking from experience. He was our ace in the hole for Days. Considering you remember that game too, I'm a little surprised you'd be so willing to leave a Neutral alive; after all, Neutrals aren't Town.

2b) I pretty much assume that any plan I can come up with, Yog can come up with. Of the lot of us, he's the one that thinks most like me. A few of you have gotten a little too close to implicit understanding, but that's meta for me to change later.

And are you really going to complain if I successfully block an SK from killing townies for a few Days?

Scum have zero incentive to finish this wagon off. They can afford to sit and twiddle their thumbs, and then either let a couple of townies pile on "just to end the Day" or they can do it themselves for the same reason. Yay inertia!

-----

This wagon is boring, and I'm feeling lonesome.

Unvote yogsloth.

Vote stanari.

Yeah, that feels better.

-----

No, because not everyone had a vote placed. I'm guessing it was a two week time limit; Drealmer has talked about a two week Day 1 previously.

This is an invalid argument for Sundown. If you are confused, well, it's been there for weeks for you to seek clarity, but please send me a PM so you can get unconfused.

Just as well I had a vote then.

Unvote Stanari.

Vote No Lynch.

Unvote No Lynch.

Vote Stanari.

Now this is very interesting...
While I'm still ok with Babark, I am a bit worried there isn't more push for something else. If he's scum, there are likely 2 or 3 other players (opening up 3 as a possibility with the likely SK) who would have a vested interest in a lynch other than his. And while there is some chatter consistent with a pursuit of alternative wagons, I'm not sure I'm reading the urgency or intensity I'd expect as we move phases toward the end.

The Yogs quote is a nice catch. Given the day kill of a mostly silent newcomer, I don't think it's all that likely that a regular player as SK would daykill her. The exception would be Yogs because Sushi isn't new to him. Limits the pool of likely suspects to Yogs, Nacho, Stan and Tammy for the SK role.

Now, with the day power drop that Yogs made...and the subsequent daykill...and just how he hasn't really looked like himself in terms of playstyle. And that there seem to be only 4 prime possibilities for the SK (and still the off chance if we are wrong that we catch a wolf if he's not the SK)...

While I like Babark as scum, the question I have is whether he is more a sure thing than Yogs. And while I appreciate that a SK may actually help us by killing a wolf as well, I think the shorter number of days we get before LyLo because of the extra kills hurts our overall accumulation of information. Not to mention that there is no guarantee the SK will hit any wolves.

In short, I'm good with either lynch, but I'm now leaning to Yogs as more of sure thing and a better play.

Unvote Babark
Vote Yogsloth

Heh, no. Good point.

My crazy theory is that Fox was SK, but there's no factual basis for that just WTFWIFOMING of Drealmer's reluctance to just let him flip.

It's yogs, man. All things being equal I just like watching him play.

Plus this time I have some blackmail to make him vote with town - he's going to have a hard time explaining those xxx-rated birch bark etchings we made together last weekend at Ogunquit to his wife, Mariah, should they become public. And his poor old ma, trentonlf - she would just die of shame.


Though....of all the times I've tried to get him lynched and failed brutally....maybe I should take the layup just for the "Finally lynched yogs!" achievement?

And would kinda serve him right for playing quite this lazy, if slightly amusing, a D1. Still think babs is the better strategic play, however.

I'm going to defend yogs here.

I'm pretty sure that's not what he meant both now and when he said it. And does yogs, in any alignment, tease that and then follow it up with an actual daykill? WIFOM I know, and he of all people can be brazen beyond belief but...that might just be a bridge to far for me.

We've officially found the line of how much bullshit I believe scum!yogs or SK!yogs would risk on D1! There is a limit!

Will avoid saying what I think is occam's razor here, though, so that he can make his own bullshit case for what he did mean. ;)

He was my first suspect for the shot, actually, and perhaps you and I are recalling the same exact thing from the other game I referenced - but after looking at the available data I give it maaaybe 5% chance it was actually him. As one piece of data, for example, I believe yogs had been offline for about 14 hours when that action happened mid-day on Sat. Not to say he couldn't have logged into his QT, or had Drealmer sit on it, and no doubt it took Drealmer an hour or so to write it but I do think the timing is at least notable data, besides...there are other, better reasons it likely wasn't him.

And for the moment I'm still inclined to assume dayvig and not "DaySK."

Then again, based on other data - even what I revealed from my own PM - maybe I shouldn't be so hasty. Plus I suppose it would be one way to balance an SK role - immune to tracking/watching, anyway. But...unless there's a pattern I'm not inclined to go there yet.

But yeah, i don't think THIS is a good basis for lynching yogs. Wyrm's argument about taking the layup is stronger. Still think the play is babark, though.

**Side note - I'd asked Drealmer if bumps were an exception to the sundown rules. He said they are not.

To each his own. My goal is to get the best possible lynch (i.e. the most likely to nab a threat).'

I'll take into account your claim he wasn't online for 14 hours, but I have a few questions. Is there a way to check how long someone last logged in? Or are you seriously suggesting you spend 14 hours straight watching which lights come on?

I also disagree with your assertion that could be a DayVig and not DaySK. I don't see "Town" in DayVigging a mostly lurker on Day 1 who was never the subject of any suspicion. Killing a lurker seems much more likely the work of a SK who is trying not to get caught.

I stick to my vote switch.
I'm not seeing much effort to save Babark which I would more if he's scum.
Yogs has been suspicious all game and the early day power mention fits too well to the daykill. And even if I'm wrong about him being SK, he's been in my top 5 or so for scum all game to this point.

It all adds up to me, he is the best chance for a positive result. Hence my vote.

I'm not criticizing your vote, fwiw. Though I guess you're probably just making sure to comply with sundown.

I'm going to defend RW here - this is a legitimate vote!

And it's a fair clarification - I meant he hadn't posted in-game in 14 hours and I hadn't observed his light on at all Sat as I was toggling back and forth between research and game. So I was assuming he was off-line, but cannot prove/disprove.

I do think the wagons are boiling down to yogs v. babark. We've talked enough about counter-wagons that if scum!babark maybe we've just scared any actual scum off from making a serious push for one? WIFOM, but here we are kinda waiting it out, and babark is definitely not doing anything trying to actively look involved and townie, imo. And yet...will now probably skate barring a great defense from yogs.

Want to see what yogs has to say.

Though your comment on the motive for killing Sushi, of all people, makes me think you aren't remembering the same game detail I was. I actually disagree with your analysis on this point, even if I see what you're driving at.

At the time of the shot there were two wagons - without going back and looking, it was roughly babs=4, stan=3. I just don't think there's payoff for any SK, other than SK!Stan (which I don't believe), to take out Sushi at that point in time. It's counter-productive in a number of ways.

It's probably not a major secret what my guess is of what transpired. It is, of course, still just a guess.

I think if Yog is neutral, which seems likely, going after him is a waste of time and attention for D1. Yog being groupscum seems fairly unlikely.

Stop and check your heads for a moment.

Do you think I daykilled a MU player in his first game on GOG halfway through Day 1?

C'mon Goglodytes - which of you is seriously going to say I did that? You ever played with me before?

If Dragon was killed by player action, it was from one of Tammy, Nacho, or Fox. I don't think Stanari and Dragon (aka SecondhandRevenant) interacted on MU so I give her a pass.

noobs.