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General discussionModeration standards - homophobia vs sexism, or longitudal maybe?(124 posts)(124 posts)
(124 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 23, 2018
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RWarehall:
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TStael:
RW quit the forum last month.

He's gone.
Posted August 23, 2018
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StingingVelvet: The crucial thing to remember, and a lot of people IMO ignore, is that presenting a world with sexism and homophobia in it does not equal endorsing those things. Witcher series is going for dark fantasy medieval Poland, which lends itself to certain attitudes and perceptions of the characters within the game. Also Geralt (mostly) looks down on and criticizes those behaviors, even further distancing the game from those perspectives.
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dtgreene:
Thx for posting.
Posted August 23, 2018
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paladin181: My whole family thinks I'm gay

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dtgreene: I should point out that there are some things that would be seen as endorsing those things.
* If a character who is supposed to be good (rather than evil) takes part in such behaviors, that can be seen as endorsing them. This, in particular, includes the main character, unless said main character is clearly meant to be evil.
* If most or all of the characters of a given (real-world) marginalized group are villains or portrayed as evil, then the game endorses bias against people of that type. (This is why I de-wishlisted A Hat in Time; apparently the only character who could be seen as gay (or something along those lines) is one of the possible villains.)
* Sometimes design choices can show such biases. Allowing the player to only play a male character is one example, especially if it's in a series in which previous games allowed gender selection (Ultima and Dragon Quest are offenders here.) Also, allowing straight relationships but not gay relationships is another example, especially since, in games with selectable gender, it takes an extra line of code to disallow same-sex relationships. I could also mention games where the genders aren't balanced gameplay-wise (Pool of Radiance and the other Gold Box games), or where equipment is gender restricted (why can't male characters wear skirts, dresses, and bikinis?).

(I could also mention: Imagine if a game allowed the player to keep slaves, encouraged the player to do so, and rewarded the player for doing so. Wouldn't that trouble many players?)
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paladin181: Specifially about a Hat in Time: So characters without defined sexual preference seeming to be gay, and you dislike the game because they can be evil and that's the only portrayal of gay in the game? How about if there aren't any clearly stated gay characters (there's not in that one).

Also, while you can't specifically own slaves, you can capture and sell slaves in Fallout 3 for a big profit. You can also choose to free them. I prefer not to, though.
And I apologize in advance if you find the above video to be offensive.
I have a feeling you are leaning on quite heavily on someone whom has an earnest style of response. Even if my memory serves I have dome the same.

But while at it, don't pretend sexism is not normal for TW-series. It is never criticised, because it allows for titillation. It is rather embraced for puerile / sadistic purposes.


Just because Geralt "coyly" turns away from the tormented titties of LaValette, does not mean this scene was not written for you. This scene is meant to allow you to gawk, while thinking you, as Geralt, is also the great guy,


This is the same reason Yennefer is such a disagreeable woman in TW3. She has the heavy load of advancing often the distasteful main quest progression, while allowing the player to be the good guy.



The heavy torture scenes are all on women, minus … Dethmold. Or?
Posted August 23, 2018
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tinyE: TStael on her day off.
I do think I should once maybe do "Papal Fantasy Fcuk Boy" let's play of TW3, maybe.


This was to encourage me, right? ;-)
Posted August 23, 2018
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richlind33: This thread is better than "Merkel is top statesmanlike" -- but not by much. ;p
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TStael: I still think Merkel is statesmanlike, "top" is your exaggeration.
https://www.gog.com/forum/general/merkel_on_trump_gotta_respect_her_top_statesmanlike_on_this_one_the_rightwinger/page1
Post edited August 23, 2018 by richlind33
Posted August 23, 2018
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amok: what is "longitudal maybe"?
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chevkoch: If this were the porn title thread, I'd change that to "longinudal maybe". Sorry, I know this likely does not help.
"Longitudinal" was obviously the Merriam-Webster intention.

(Observation) over a period of time.


As in "CD Project RED should observe a longitudinal improvement in their writing." -> As in writing for their fans.
Posted August 23, 2018
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Breja: Again? Fucking... seriously? What is it with the gamers' obession with this shit? I can understand TStael, she's basically just a troll with all the grace of a shrapnel wound to the stomach, and for dtgreene every thread is this thread anyway, but why is anyone else taking this bait? Have you not been over this a thousand times? Do you think you're getting somewhere? Can't we at least find a new subject to obsess over? Please?
@breja - just reflect on the fact that I shall have not been able to replay TW2 because of Dethmold pimple popping and genitalia mutilation.

This said, when I love TW series to distraction. With Dragon Age, I credit it with the renaissance of PC RPG gaming overall.



The shrapnel wound is the absence of The Witcher 2 from my active gaming library.



Your response is weirdly aggressive meanwhile.. Not liking homophobia is not that weird.
Posted August 23, 2018
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Breja: Again? Fucking... seriously? What is it with the gamers' obession with this shit? I can understand TStael, she's basically just a troll with all the grace of a shrapnel wound to the stomach, and for dtgreene every thread is this thread anyway, but why is anyone else taking this bait? Have you not been over this a thousand times? Do you think you're getting somewhere? Can't we at least find a new subject to obsess over? Please?
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TStael: @breja - just reflect on the fact that I shall have not been able to replay TW2 because of Dethmold pimple popping and genitalia mutilation.

This said, when I love TW series to distraction. With Dragon Age, I credit it with the renaissance of PC RPG gaming overall.

The shrapnel wound is the absence of The Witcher 2 from my active gaming library.

Your response is weirdly aggressive meanwhile.. Not liking homophobia is not that weird.
Not much of a loss, in my estimation. Not into PC games that play like console games.
Posted August 23, 2018
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dtgreene: (I could also mention: Imagine if a game allowed the player to keep slaves, encouraged the player to do so, and rewarded the player for doing so. Wouldn't that trouble many players?)
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morolf: I would find such a game very interesting, and some games have at least gone somewhat in this direction (e.g. you can become a slaver in Fallout 2, and BG2 has that brothel with sex slaves in the Copper Coronet,,,you can choose not to free them, instead using their services).
Choice in an rpg should include the choice to do things generally regarded as evil today.
Indeed - but in well written RPG's reprehensible acts come at a cost of being judged by the wider society.

Which you could conquer as a god of murder, or such like.


As opposed to formulaic anonymous dangling corpses of the "hard" gameworlds of today.
Posted August 23, 2018
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paladin181: Lawful good. Law and "good" are social constructs. If slavery is the social norm and legal, why couldn't a lawful good character own slaves, or rather why is that a conflict? Most of what we consider to be "good" is based on what some moldy people said in a book. For that matter, so is law.
Social constructs, indeed.

Our sense of morality is visited by the degree of enlightenment and legalism of our society.

Your question about being a slave is answered by your own unwillingness to be one.


Not unlike my having an opinion as a female gamer, including but not restricted to some slight criticism of CD Project RED writing.;-)
Posted August 23, 2018
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Enebias: You competely ignore historical contexts and the fact that females and LGBT people are just as human as any etero man: they can be wrong, they can be criminal, they can be even gratuitously evil sociopaths.
Yet you want them exclusively depicted as heroes and you ignore on purpose human history and psychology.
You know what? People like you don't want equality. You already have it, despite the very few vocal cavemen you can easily spot in the media; you want privilege, you want to be held in higher regard than a common person. Well, face it: you ARE common people, and you shall be treated as such.
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dtgreene: You completely ignore the historical context in that women and LGBT have been historically marginalized, at least in western civilization. (This goes way back; remember that it's not until relatively recently (on historical time scales) that women gained the right to vote; in the US, the 19th amendment was only ratified less than a century ago.)
Yes, but how precisely is that relevant? What is relevant is actual bigotry in the present time. Or have you got a time machine with which to go back and remedy the situation?

Bottom line is that groups that opt to externalize these matters wind up making no progress whatsoever as you can't undo the past, and you can't force other people to change their minds about things.

The best thing is really just to not reinforce stereotypes that you don't like. Eventually stereotypes that don't fit with reality have a tendency to disappear and if they don't, why would you even care? They aren't about you?

You think I'm going to waste time and energy being upset with all the ludicrous representations of bisexuality in the media? No, it's just not worth my time or energy. I'm somewhat more concerned with being fired in actual life. And even that I don't particularly waste time worrying about, I've been fired quite a few more times for my sex and race than my sexual orientation.
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TStael:
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tinyE: RW quit the forum last month.

He's gone.
Finally, Good riddance. I can't recall every seeing a RW post that wasn't 1000% flamebait or trolling.
Post edited August 23, 2018 by hedwards
Posted August 23, 2018
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RWarehall: They don't tell you how to think. You need to do the thinking for yourself and the games follow up on this theme. It's a world with various shades of grey.
And THAT is what disturbs many people. Many people like their world black and white. Not only virtual worlds, but many from all extreme camps try to vew the real world as black and white too. Dividing the world in 'Them' and 'Us'. It doesn't matter which camp these 'simplified world view' seekers come from. Right wing or left wing, both are the same in this respect.
Actually thinking seems to be an over-exertion for many. Why think, when I just can be artificially offended, scream about it and feel good about myself for being better than 'Them'?
Posted August 23, 2018
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Lifthrasil: I just can be artificially offended, scream about it and feel good about myself for being better than 'Them'
This and most of other political topics OP in a nutshell.
Post edited August 23, 2018 by LootHunter
Posted August 28, 2018
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hedwards: Finally, Good riddance. I can't recall every seeing a RW post that wasn't 1000% flamebait or trolling.
Funny, I see the one who is flamebaiting seems to be you. What right do you have to insult other people out of the blue? You are the troll. What a loser...

As to TStael and Dethmold...
You still don't get it. Let me explain it another way.

There is a movie called Unbreakable
It's an old movie but just in case ****SPOILER ALERT****
The villain is black and a cripple.
So, by your logic, this movie is racist because the bad guy is black.
And the movie is able-ist because the villain is a cripple.

No rational person believes this is intentional. Nothing else in the movie implies this at all.

But that's your same argument about the Witcher 2.
Because Dethmold is a villain and also is gay, your claim is that CDPR is guilty of homophobia.
It's a stupid argument based solely on association.

That is why it has been dismissed and even ridiculed for all the years you keep reposting it.
Posted August 28, 2018
on second thought :P

Whatever I post, even if it is just asking what time it is or what he had for lunch, he is going to claim I'm attacking him.
Post edited August 28, 2018 by tinyE
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionModeration standards - homophobia vs sexism, or longitudal maybe?(124 posts)(124 posts)
(124 posts)