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Crosmando: This thread is gay
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Lord_Kane: arent we all gay in our own ways?
NO. Also traps are gay.
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Lord_Kane: arent we all gay in our own ways?
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Crosmando: NO. Also traps are gay.
Traps are turbo gay.
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The world Witcher is based on, Sapkowski's books are filled with biases. Men disliking women; women disliking men, Dwarves, Elves and Humans disliking each other for various reasons. People hating each other based on class or region. But through it all, while not necessarily justified, there is often a sense or self-justification why. It's filled with characters with flaws. Sometimes two groups hate each other and they are both right and wrong.

Elves have been driven out from their forests, now some Elves fight back killing any humans they meet. Others don't. Men are sometimes sexist, but so are some women. The books contain the breadth of human experience.

That's why I find it silly that some people want to call the world sexist or racist or any other ist. Are all women supposed to always be portrayed as right? Never questioned? They can't be bad or wrong? And if a man displays his sexism, is that really an endorsement? Is any work mimicking aspects of our world supposed to completely ignore these aspects?

Time and again I see people cherry-picking a single scene and calling the entire work sexist. Often ignoring the lesson being told. And definitely ignoring the rest of the story and all the other shades of grey.

The Witcher books contain many lessons, that people are fallible; that two sides can both be basically right or both wrong and still disagree. That life isn't always simple and clear. What makes the books great is that they are not too preachy. They don't tell you how to think. You need to do the thinking for yourself and the games follow up on this theme. It's a world with various shades of grey.
Burn it with fire - it's the only way to be sure.
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jepsen1977: Burn it with fire - it's the only way to be sure.
I would have thought nuking it from space would have been enough. But, since you mentioned it, ahem:
"Mac wants the flamethrower!"
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Lord_Kane: Huh what are you talking about, I havent started any flame wars.
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RWarehall: Sorry about that, thought I quoted TStael...wonder if I can edit that...
Yep, just change the quote_6 to quote_1
Post edited July 18, 2018 by thomq
what is "longitudal maybe"?
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StingingVelvet: The crucial thing to remember, and a lot of people IMO ignore, is that presenting a world with sexism and homophobia in it does not equal endorsing those things. Witcher series is going for dark fantasy medieval Poland, which lends itself to certain attitudes and perceptions of the characters within the game. Also Geralt (mostly) looks down on and criticizes those behaviors, even further distancing the game from those perspectives.
I should point out that there are some things that would be seen as endorsing those things.
* If a character who is supposed to be good (rather than evil) takes part in such behaviors, that can be seen as endorsing them. This, in particular, includes the main character, unless said main character is clearly meant to be evil.
* If most or all of the characters of a given (real-world) marginalized group are villains or portrayed as evil, then the game endorses bias against people of that type. (This is why I de-wishlisted A Hat in Time; apparently the only character who could be seen as gay (or something along those lines) is one of the possible villains.)
* Sometimes design choices can show such biases. Allowing the player to only play a male character is one example, especially if it's in a series in which previous games allowed gender selection (Ultima and Dragon Quest are offenders here.) Also, allowing straight relationships but not gay relationships is another example, especially since, in games with selectable gender, it takes an extra line of code to disallow same-sex relationships. I could also mention games where the genders aren't balanced gameplay-wise (Pool of Radiance and the other Gold Box games), or where equipment is gender restricted (why can't male characters wear skirts, dresses, and bikinis?).

(I could also mention: Imagine if a game allowed the player to keep slaves, encouraged the player to do so, and rewarded the player for doing so. Wouldn't that trouble many players?)
My whole family thinks I'm gay

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dtgreene: I should point out that there are some things that would be seen as endorsing those things.
* If a character who is supposed to be good (rather than evil) takes part in such behaviors, that can be seen as endorsing them. This, in particular, includes the main character, unless said main character is clearly meant to be evil.
* If most or all of the characters of a given (real-world) marginalized group are villains or portrayed as evil, then the game endorses bias against people of that type. (This is why I de-wishlisted A Hat in Time; apparently the only character who could be seen as gay (or something along those lines) is one of the possible villains.)
* Sometimes design choices can show such biases. Allowing the player to only play a male character is one example, especially if it's in a series in which previous games allowed gender selection (Ultima and Dragon Quest are offenders here.) Also, allowing straight relationships but not gay relationships is another example, especially since, in games with selectable gender, it takes an extra line of code to disallow same-sex relationships. I could also mention games where the genders aren't balanced gameplay-wise (Pool of Radiance and the other Gold Box games), or where equipment is gender restricted (why can't male characters wear skirts, dresses, and bikinis?).

(I could also mention: Imagine if a game allowed the player to keep slaves, encouraged the player to do so, and rewarded the player for doing so. Wouldn't that trouble many players?)
Specifially about a Hat in Time: So characters without defined sexual preference seeming to be gay, and you dislike the game because they can be evil and that's the only portrayal of gay in the game? How about if there aren't any clearly stated gay characters (there's not in that one).

Also, while you can't specifically own slaves, you can capture and sell slaves in Fallout 3 for a big profit. You can also choose to free them. I prefer not to, though.
And I apologize in advance if you find the above video to be offensive.
Post edited July 18, 2018 by paladin181
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Crosmando: This thread is gay
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Lord_Kane: arent we all gay in our own ways?
Maybe the real gay is the friends we make along the way.
Post edited July 18, 2018 by misteryo
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dtgreene: (I could also mention: Imagine if a game allowed the player to keep slaves, encouraged the player to do so, and rewarded the player for doing so. Wouldn't that trouble many players?)
I too was troubled by the slavery system in Rome 2, but I find that this mod helps immensely : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=276179558&searchtext=sell+your+slaves
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dtgreene: * If a character who is supposed to be good (rather than evil) takes part in such behaviors, that can be seen as endorsing them.
Or, you know, it could show the characters have more depth rather than being binary good/evil.
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TStael on her day off.
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amok: what is "longitudal maybe"?
If this were the porn title thread, I'd change that to "longinudal maybe". Sorry, I know this likely does not help.
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Again? Fucking... seriously? What is it with the gamers' obession with this shit? I can understand TStael, she's basically just a troll with all the grace of a shrapnel wound to the stomach, and for dtgreene every thread is this thread anyway, but why is anyone else taking this bait? Have you not been over this a thousand times? Do you think you're getting somewhere? Can't we at least find a new subject to obsess over? Please?
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dtgreene: (This is why I de-wishlisted A Hat in Time; apparently the only character who could be seen as gay (or something along those lines) is one of the possible villains.)
How about a spoiler alert? Thanks.