Freeloading?! Isn't that plain old theft?

Tbh I've stopped looking at all of those a few months ago when the censorship was getting rather extreme everywhere.
Interesting to know though.
Such definitions depend on your looks and nationality, don't forget that most Germans are still racists, just with another adjustment.

This is right wing bullshit and a lie! This stuff is going around in PEGIDA related Facebook pages and social media for months. It is a blatant lie. Everyone knows a closed down supermarket - but no one can give an adress - because the looted markets do not exist! In social media refugees are also accused to steal and eat horses, goats and pets...
So you get your news now from some Blogs, Facebook Pages and Russia Today?

Thanks for calling me a liar.
I don't have Facebook and don't know anybody from Pegida (don't even know if it's related to NPD or central people).
Have you ever considered, that you are misinformed and maybe should look and check stuff for yourself right where it happens?

From the real world, I can recommend it sometimes. It's surprisingly different from any media narratives from wherever.

Not sure what you're referring to, but I'm rather satisfied with our Reporters without Borders freedom of the press rank, #12 in 2015 (with Slovenia at #35, which still is somewhat respectable, considering 180 ranked countries).

Ah, Poland! A respectable press freedom #18.

Oh, China. #176 out of 180 ranked. You probably don't need lecturing on freiheitlich demokratische Grundwerte, but hot damn your government is in dire need.


At the time, it looks like your first sentence is correct. However, as people were not just sexually assaulted but also robbed, police is now investigating gangs of con artists of African descent, which have been around for years at the very least.

Oh yes, definitely. I will note, before you do, that you didn't call Klumpen a "liar", but you called the information a lie.

Which it is.

Pegida-, NPD- and Afd-afilliated media, assorted dozens of hate mongering anti-immigrant websites, conspiracy theorist right wing crap like kopp-online and possibly Express and Bild magazines would be the presumed sources.

Yes he did, since the information came directly from me having been there.

I'm not surprised that the brainwashed Germans here just wave it away by saying it's some sort of copied propaganda, that's how denial works.

You witnessed the freeloading in person, and the supermarkets are in fact still closed?

That factors into this discussion how? Am I about to be lectured on muh human rights, muh free speech, muh freiheitlich demokratische Grundwerte?

For your first sentence on this page alone, you should be lectured for several years, yes.

Yes, no, maybe. It probably wasn't a gang of 1000 people seeing that the central station/ Kölner Dom area is a favored gathering place for New Year's Eve celebrations.

However, organized crime it pretty definitely was, with a comparatively huge number of people involved.

I'm not sure the police will be able to make sense of this mess.

I witnessed two closed supermarkets (already mentioned) in an area where I'm around sometimes and people working and shopping there having given this reason. I have no idea if they are open again, will check next time. I guess they won't sell the ground and just wait until the worst times are over. Since there aren't too many supermarkets around there it is a bit inconvenient although I prefer others anyway due to the by now rather unusual lack of vegan stuff.
I also know other people having been around when the mass thievings happened, one of those was just like you before it happened and thought it's all a lie. He kind of swayed in the opposite direction now.
That's the problem with the "it doesn't happen"-propaganda. It will certainly enforce the other likewise extreme side as soon as reality kicks in.

Don't expect your content to be judged for itself, for Germans it's extremely important where you come from, often what gender you have and especcially if what you are saying is currently canon.

You see how I'm constantly caught in the middle of national extremists and antinational extremists all following some kind of dogmatic rule set? Both hate me for not playing this game.

"Propaganda" that I don't follow.

Of course it happens. Of course criminals are among the refugees. Of course IS terrorists are coming in along with refugees occasionally. We just have a fundamentally different perspective on the percentages at work here.

If you had said you'd witnessed it in person, and you were sure that the supermarkets are STILL flatlined, of course I would have judged you to be a credible source.

So there have been reports on closed supermarkets due to freeloading. Who reported what? A quick skim tells me that e.g. the kopp-online website, proven hate monger and in fact very energetic liar, did that. A whole lot of these reports were disproven instantly. I could of course try to match all reports of looting to the reports of those initial reports to be fake, and maybe we'd find a few closed supermarkets eventually.

But when it becomes clear which reports were fabricated in the first place, and in need to be disproven, it follows who is actually doing the propaganda.

You know, I'm from Rhineland-Palatine. I can get to Cologne in less than an hour by train. In most of the cities I lived in, supermarkets close there due to expected freeloading, sexual assault and violence – every year, during carnival, at least the ones that are not having "bring your husband to work day" (yes, that's an actual thing). And this is because of GERMAN assholes.

The Cologne incident is likely one of organized crime and very, very likely in no way related to the refugee crisis.

Little update:
Now there are more than 90 criminal complaints related to this incident. I presume, there will be a lot more, if all the victims complain. So, it`s not just an incident, it`s really a fully (full?) new dimension of crime!!!!

Cologne certainly isn't the best place for showing immigrants how things should be done in any case.
I'm not a fan of this city and its culture at all (not of Bonn either) and have seen way too much of it already thanks to relatives living there.

Nobody knows, people saying "it certainly isn't" are no different to those that say "it is" though.

The police, with full knowledge of the crime situation in that area (in which I have lived, though just for 10 months), convincingly ties several gangs of at least several dozens of men each to organized crime.

Can there be 2015 refugee arrivals among the culprits? Yes, certainly.
Organized crime 'lords' will probably leap at those desperate and confused arrivals.

However, what the police is justly looking for are structures and crime communities who have been very well established in Cologne for years if not decades. The idea that these entire criminal structures kind of just swept into the country these last months is... well, let's say, a whole lot less feasible. Sure, they will investigate that angle too. Waste good taxpayer money on it.

So, yes. There DEFINITELY is a difference between those who are informed enough to say "it likely isn't related to the refugee crisis" and those who, contrary to the presently available information, say "it is". And you can tell these two kinds of people apart very easily. Beware of the early finger pointers.

Better a hundred guilty go free...

Well, you know the rest.

I enjoy standing in the cold watching dragons eat cabbages, and so I'm often in Chinatown for the new year. Once, some damnfool kids thought it would be fun to toss strips of firecrackers into the crowd. The cops dealt with it immediately, and weren't gingerly about it. They didn't hurt anyone, but they did put the fear of God into those kids. Good thing, too. It would have been a hell of a thing for a strip of firecrackers to land in one of several baby carriages in the crowd.