Her's how it went down...
Paraphrased as much as I can...

Night 2 in response to my stated action roleblocking Christi, I was told she was blocked and I just noticed I never told you how your powers work, why didn't you ask?
I responded, well, they are pretty standard so its no big deal.
After day broke and Christi had died, I asked Vitek if he could tell me whether its the fact that fire killed Christi that she was not saved.
He responded a day later saying, See, you should have asked, you are confusing roleblocker with jailkeeper, that all roleblock does is prevent a role from working.

I could ask the same question of you as a veteran player, why you make some of the mistakes you do...

So far, it seems your whole argument against me and why you so completely trust Bler is "Trust me, I'm Sage" its my gut feeling...

Personally, I wonder if I hit a cord on Day 1 where I pointed out how you weren't saying anything important, or day 2 when I pointed out how all your posts were recaps from Adalia's script with no insight of your own to add. I'm pretty sure why you are bussing me now is either tactical, or revenge for voting you Day 1.

Because if people really look at Bler's post from the beginning, he does a good job just throwing out lots of ideas and distracting people. I really think that "day chat slip" wasn't really a slip after all.

Seems you do not like my post to you and now you are trying to take others away from it and really see it and read it.

Thank what you want of me. I have been honest the whole game. And look who is trying to that whole strawman thing (not sure that use of it is right) You just put a label on me as a necromancer - Trying to put a role that I a NOT on to me. I am a Zombie Maker. Since you seem to need to know my role name so bad.

Did Krypsyn do something or say something to think I had any power over him other then giving him another day? You mad cause he knew something was off with you?

I have not been dogging you all game because you said townie. That would be your take on it NOT mine. I never said hey I dont like WR ONLY because he used townie I have found your lack of being around off, you did not want to communicate and actively partake in the game and just sit back and through a post out here and there. You seem to be trying to buddy up with Krypsyn when he was back I don't believe your claim. I think there is more to it. You might be a handyman but I do not think you are town at all. You are trying so hard right now to through shade away from yourself.

Why would I be scum and bring Krypsyn back and not Wyrm. Wyrm has great thoughts and very active in hunting scum. One reason is Krypsyn had a night action and knowing what he did would at least give us information and possibly learn something from.

You can insult my game play all you want but I made a choice and I am happy with bring Krypsyn back. I made sure to use my power while I still was alive to do it. As for no information to share - wrong. He confirmed his actions and what he did. If that is not information then I am not sure what is.

Oh and for understanding my power - that is extremely funny coming from someone who claims to have messed up on what ability he was using and in your own words the mod had to tell you.

You are the one that seems to OMG at me with every post I have posted about you. I will not be unvoting you. You are scum.

I almost missed my plane - last one on. Whoops!

I'd prefer to focus on you (even you vs. me if you prefer) and leave the yog/trent debate off to the side. However, I do find it interesting that both you and yog have pointed the finger at Vitek as a linchpin of your respective defenses. You claim Vitek "forgot to describe your role to you" while yog claims Vitek screwed him over on his night action.

I mean, I don't know Vitek outside this game, and maybe he's a completely disorganized incompetent, and they just willy nilly let any fool run these games. I'll let the vets judge that as I really have no idea. He's seemed on top of things to me. I just find it...remarkable.

As for why I've been reading the wiki, it's because this is my first time playing mafia. Similar to what Sage noted, if I encounter something I don't understand, I take the time to learn it, such as my own role. This isn't putting words in my mouth, but if I got "handy man" I'd try and research it, and if I didn't understand I would have asked, not wait for Vitek to hopefully correct me somewhere in Day 3.

You do raise an interesting question about balance. And counter-claiming that I'm really scum role cop is a very nice play. Well done! Because a parity cop, of course, would be nigh useless to scum. Your theory has a giant hole in it.

Town isn't nearly so strong as you are trying to suggest. CSP as watcher/tracker can control who he follows, but not what action he takes. So 50/50 chance that even if he picks a meaningful target, he gets nothing.

Second, your theory presumes a town cop, and now you're saying the one person who's claimed cop isn't even town? /headdesk But skip over that glaring logic-hole. Parity cop is a pretty dang weak cop, even after accounting for having to rule out some sort of mental affliction. And yes, sage is describing the mechanics correctly. I'm just comparing two people day to day and get a "same" or "different" answer.

I did actually leave a breadcrumb about my role, however. In post 847 I said this about Cristi: "Unless I'm crazy, I think she probably is town." Now, I assumed if I were to flip parity cop that people might put 469 and 572 together, but using the word "insane" would be too obvious. So I went with crazy.

Given the reaction to my claim, however, I could have been far more brash and that breadcrumb still never would have been found. But that post was a breadcrumb after seeing Kryp flip town, and having the read that Cristi was "same." If I was sane, she was town, if I was insane, she was not. Thus the breadcrumb.

Third, on the town side, if flub is town, yes, he has a chance to see a pool with scum in it, and even can in theory investigate. But he also has a 2/3 chance of killing town every night. Which among other effects, shortens the game. In a game where the two other investigators are a parity cop, and a tracker/watcher who can't control his actual action, it could well have taken 5 days for town to know anything of use. And as Yog's response shows, there's going to be at least some hesitance on peoples' part to fall in on an arsonist's claim.

My theory is that flub actually has a weakness even he doesn't know about. So I think the role is weaker still than what you're seeing. But I'll address that later.

Two, you're deliberately understating the strength of scum. Say, hypothetically, that RW is scum. Now scum has a firefighter (in an arson game) and a role blocker. Neither of whom seems to have any significant limitations, and both provide solid counters to what town can do. And most importantly, they can actually coordinate their night action, while town runs around like chickens.

I think you're saying scum is weak because you're sitting as scum, and it feels weak because you lost your firefighter on N1, largely on the luck of the draw of JMich being in flub's pool rather than say, Sage. A 1/3 shot for flub became a 1/2 shot. That's a big swing.

So sure, it feels a lot weaker now. But look at the starting setup. And recall we don't necessarily even know what the 3rd does. Godfather has been my guess for the last 36 hours or so, as it would counter my role, and would explain why so many other pieces seem to fit. But I could be wrong there, it's just a theory.

For town, the game could have been over in a huge hurry if scum randomly targeted flub on N1. They'd see JMich and be right back for N2. Both sides have some RNG vulnerability, and I think that's where the "imbalance" comes from, whereas I think the roles themselves are actually pretty carefully aligned.

TBC

I decided not to discuss Flub's weakness, at least for tonight. I think it helps strengthen my argument, but potentially opens up town unnecessarily.

Here's the core point for anyone torn between RW's claim and mine:

*Forget that RW's arguments largely rely on ad hominems and attack on various peoples' character (Vitek, Sage, myself...) and that mine rely on logic that can be questioned and debated.

*Consider these two propositions, and go ahead and consider them to be equally likely:
a) a scum role cop
b) a scum role blocker

*Now also assume Flub tells truth and is a town arsonist.

*Which of these is more dangerous to flub and ergo town:
a) A role cop in a scenario where all the townies have claimed. Role cop could investigate Yog's claim, sure, but in this hypothetical scenario role cop is scum, so ... Only people likely lying are scum, and hey, hypothetical role cop already knows who they are. Not so useful.
b) Handy man. I have no idea what that is but it sure sounds useful. I think there are massage parlors where you can pay extra for that.

But seriously, on Day 3 a hypothetical scum role cop is not dangerous to town other than being a headcount; a hypothetical active scum role blocker is the same headcount with some pretty significant added utility. Could even save the game for scum if they choose the right gambit and get just a bit of luck.

Assume we're both scum - who do you lynch? Seems an easy call to me. As sage said, if RW flips town, you have the opportunity to string me up tomorrow, or maybe even I show up as a few slices of bacon come morning.

This is a much safer proposition than Trent vs. Yog.

For a while I was actually a bit worried he was going to claim he was really town who just investigates as scum, as that would have given me at least some doubt and perhaps diverted us into a policy discussion. Now that he's not claiming any sort of alignment-madness in his role, I absolutely know he's going to flip scum. I'll even go back and quadruple-check my chat. And sure enough! My chat clearly says he's a different alignment than Cristigale.

You know, unless that useless bastard Vitek effed me over. I hear he does that a lot ;)

I'm on board! Let's do this! I'll even agree to be the first vote on myself if he flips town.

That pretty much sums it up.

Heck, even I hosted a game. Don't say anything to yogsloth or he'll be bawling for a half hour.

You make some solid points here. Primarily about that useless bastard Vitek....and my weakness is actually a glandular condition I'll have you know.

I can vote RWarehall now. However I'm looking forward and seeing my death tonight and if RWarehall flips scum, your death the next Night. If he flips town, your lynch will most likely be automatic. Which leaves the yog/trent affair as potentially two lynches to get an answer.

agentcarr16's claim is really getting stuck in my gullet.

Vote: RWarehall .................(have mercy!!!)

I don't have much time, but I want to respond to some questions.

@ Sage

I was paraphrasing my PM, that's why I said there were nice people in town, when actually my PM tells me a few people were mean. I was under the impression that I wasn't allowed to directly quote my PM, so I didn't.
Again, I was paraphrasing my win condition. I have the standard win condition that's set out at the end of the OP.

@ flubbucket

Sorry about that, but I can't help what Vitek sent me. I was OK with it when I first saw that I was Vanilla, it would make for an easier game. When I realized that I was the only Vanilla... Things looked a little different.

At work so I can't quote

@bler- if you knew from the beginning you were the only true vanilla. Did you do anything to draw attention to yourself? Being vanilla and knowing everyone else must have had a role, I would think your job would be to try and take the NK and protect the roles. How did you see playing your role? I remember you mentioning being at the end of the game and having that card in your pocket.

I thought about that. If CSP is town his obvious play is to target you tonight and while I won't get into what the exact odds are I think scum at least has to consider targeting him instead of you.

So I don't think it's a given you're the NK, but yes, it would be nice to have a doctor in play. Ahem. (teasing)

Whereas if they have a roleblocker they can just block him if they're worried about him, and kill you. If they're more worried about you then they block you and kill you and hope they can slip CSP for just one night. Alternatively they could block you and kill him. All of those are bad - not guaranteed loss bad (if I'm right that it's just 2 left), but bad.

Correction. That was not for Bler but agent.

Good God.

Vote RWarehall

Bring on the barbecue.

Is that your concession speech?

I had reached the same conclusion as agentcarr. Flub's proposition is that Trent or yog is scum. Take that as a given. CSP's claim did two things:

2) It gave me backing at least that my action was accurate, which lent credence to the larger claim that RW is scum, as well as helping defusing the yog/trent coin flip, which I have to say, I think you would have lost.
1) it cast shade on Yog.

There were other hypothetical explanations for why dedo would visit Yog on N1 (some sort of RNG or pool limitation like the one flub has described), so it's not impossible that Yog is town even if CSP's claim is true, but the logic falls out when you try and reconcile a "town Trent" with a "scum CSP."

Of all people, if you are town, you should be the most convinced of CSP's innocence, as it would make no sense for him to aid in sparing you if he is scum and yog is scum, which his claim did on two fronts. Particularly in that moment when the game really hung in the balance.

I think you'll see that the only scenario where it makes sense that CSP is scum, given his claim, is one where Trent AND CSP are scum. And arguably, you get to a point where Trent/CSP/Bler are all scum. Which would be scary, yes, but it's pretty fantastical.

Among other problems with that scenario you would have to believe that Vitek created a game where scum had 4 players, more investigative roles than town, and where the town's only "power" roles were a compulsive arsonist and a role blocker who would have no idea who to block, and would likely do more harm than good.

Still, I'm reasonably confident it's just Yog/RW and that we're going to wake up to a bright, sunshiney day in Grand Oak Gallows.

In my mind the remaining drama is
1) who Yog wants to take out in spite. I think he'll be torn between me/you/Flub.
2) What's my big theory on Flub's role, and will I be alive at dawn to share it before Vitek does?

That said, if I were flub and Trent/Yog both came up in my queue tonight I would probably hit Trent. Why? Because if Trent flips town, yog is a quick lynch and game over. If Yog flips town, OTOH, then you have scum Trent which goes back to scum CSP, etc.

I understand the reasoning, I was just wanting to know what agentcarr would say ;-)

Also, not sure why it did not come to my attention before but if Dedo visited yogsloth on N1 that would mean yogsloth is scum would it not. Dedo was a firefighter and could protect someone from the arsonist at night, he would have protected his buddies and he visited Yogs...

That is and was the most likely conclusion yes. As noted, it was possible dedo had some limitations on who he could choose, but if you assume he could act unconstrained, what's the one role a defender might defend over himself?

In chess it would be a king. Here it's probably a godfather. If you assume dedo had any sort of free action, then yog is not only probably scum, but the most valuable scum.

Assuming my role has a counter wasn't the only thing that took me down the road that a godfather being present was more likely than not, esp. once I both confirmed I was 'sane' and that more likely than not we were looking at 2 factions rather than 3.

Still, I had something very concrete on RW. As mentioned his only possible counter to what I knew was some sort of alignment madness, and he did not even attempt that road, which I think a town would have - at least to provide more info even if it didn't spare him. Could have confirmed what I was seeing, which by extension would allow town to form a coalition around me/flub/CSP. Instead he went for anarchy.

By comparison, Yog's out was some combination of "Vitek error" and "maybe dedo's role had a major handicap we just didn't see!" Not exactly likely, but...I can't completely rule it out. I give 85-90% chance Yog flips scum, and maybe 60 he flips Godfather. But I'm still even more confident on RW.

I think town has this now unless someone is holding something back, I sure hope no one is.