DISCLAIMER: I would like to state at the beginning that I have no intention of derailing this thread so I apologize in advance to everyone for bringing this up again, please ignore if you don't approve or consider it inconsequential. Also fair warning that please do not read this if you don't have enough time to spare as this post is made up of giant walls of text and divided into parts due to excessive length because I would like to cover all aspects to illustrate my opinion and also don't want to argue any further after finished, since there will always be folks that disagree with it for one reason or another thus resulting in an endless vicious cycle. Please do not interrupt until this has been completely posted as it is everything I have to say on this matter and will not bring it up again also apologies in advance for all the GOG links which have to be copy/pasted in the browser as I am unable to post the complete url due to negative rep, thank you for reading.

As I have mentioned before Tarnicus I support your noble efforts for exposing the scammers who are only here to exploit others either by gaining something to trade on GOG or at other places all the while being really smug and proud of themselves for duping generous people. The community as a whole will be much better off when it has been rid of such deplorable individuals. However, you have since then started to prosecute other folks here as well based on the accusations of a select few that consider them to be here only to get free games to add to their collection. But the way you have gone about interrogating said people as suspects is far from ideal I do not agree with. To put things into perspective, based on my understanding from the six months or so that I have been here, there are two specific main random gifting threads:

- Ninja Giveaway thread that many folks use to generously drop their unwanted or leftover codes from various bundles and such. Most of them are not really interested in who gets the code as long as its redeemed and not misused for trading or re-gifting, on the other hand some gifters set certain specific conditions or requirements for anyone wanting to get the game. Both categories of gifters are free to choose how to go about giving away their games.

- Open this Thread which is not as old as the ninja thread but the concept is similar to the first method of giving away games and is essentially created and maintained by a single extremely generous individual xckx. Others now and then also leave some code in this thread as well similar to the ninja thread and are not really concerned with who gets the game as long as the recipients are happy and genuinely grateful.

In both these cases the regulars giving away games are not naive, gullible or blind and are aware of the number of games each member is taking but only when they get a response by the ones getting games expressing their gratitude and appreciation, thus the gifters do not find it inherently immoral or a huge sin. On the contrary though for a long while on the "ninja thread" and the new "open this thread" many codes were dropped openly and in majority of the cases were picked by lurkers or silent ninjas using scripts or whatever means to grab every key as soon as it became available in these threads which still continues to some degree.

These are the real leechers that are only here for the sole purpose of getting free games and are really successful because of their anonymity. This kind of attitude is what needs to be eradicated as there is no accountability for someone that hides in the shadows and ofcourse they are not actively participating in the community either. Yet they manage to get away scott free while the person who actually responds to the gifter with a "thank you" at times even when not receiving anything gets accused of being a greedy hoarder by someone else just lurking there for the sole purpose of passing judgement with a minus button without ever giving them a benefit of the doubt.

The members of this community that actually respond after receiving a game could just as easily lurk and hide as well but the fact that they don't despite getting stalked constantly by self-righteous down reppers implies that they aspire to be a part of the GOG community, well atleast in most cases as there will always be some that would just pretend and only hang around on the random gifting threads. Here I would like to mention Momo1991's Make A Human Answer YOu (MAHAYO) initiative which I think is a step in the right direction and a positive way to deal with the problems caused by lurkers and trolls.

MAHAYO: www.gog.com/forum/general/mahayo/post51

<TO BE CONTINUED IN NEXT POST>

<CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS POST>

So in summation the only real threats that I have found to be to this community based on what I have observed as disturbing are "scammers' and "lurkers/trolls". The other perceived threat of greedy hoarders is just a matter of opinion and entirely subjective because it is not simply black or white as there are many other factors that have be considered with some of them even being unknown. The whole reason why I have brought this up is because I have seen you mention a few times how unfortunate it is that other generous members do not consider this to be a big issue because they are gullible and blind sided by compliments, which I don't agree with at all as based on my interactions with some of the many well known generous and wonderful folks in this community I know they are intelligent and observant enough to assess the situation and come to their own conclusions. They do not need a self appointed prefect to dictate to them what is right or wrong and how everyone should conduct themselves on this forum according to their questionable moral guide lines, just to be clear I am not referring to you Tarnicus as the the ones doing it know who they are.

A clear example is xckx on his "Open this giveaway" thread who has clearly stated that he gives out games because it makes him happy and just the joy of giving is enough for him so therefore isn't bothered even when keys are snatched by lurkers. In contrast a lot of people express their gratitude and show their appreciation for his amazing generosity even when sometimes they do not take a game code. More recently xckx has taken the advise of some other nice community members and decided to employ a "first reply" method for giving away games to filter out lurkers/trolls. After which there have been instances where same one or two people get more then a single game from xckx which he most definitely is capable enough to notice. So my question is simply that if it does not bother the one who is giving away the games then why is someone else who is not involved really hell bent on monitoring the activity on the thread just to express their dispproval of the proceeding with down repping of anyone that in their opinion is deemed greedy.

All of this extremely long pretext is also a precursor to how grunthos64 was recently subjected to undeserved treatment based on suspicion alone here: www.gog.com/forum/general/ninja_giveaway/post73823. The conversation via the PMs that you provided was also not in good taste as no matter the contents of the private correspondence it should not be shared unless both parties give consent to it being made public, so it is good that you have since removed them. But, from what I saw in the PM screenshot you first asked grunthos for proof of his generosity which anyone would be offended by being asked to do unexpectedly even if that was not the intention. To which grunthos responded by mentioning clearly by spelling out the the names of the giveaway thread and another one where his generosity was acknowledged even if unable to link to it. Yet you still pressed him to provide you the actual links which I found odd as you've proven yourself to be quite adept at finding out incriminating evidence in some other legitimate cases. But when looking for evidence that would prove that grunthos was infact telling the truth you were unable or unwilling to find the giveaway threads yourself even when the names were explicitly provided and could easily be located using the forum search filter:

Mystery Game Giveaway 2014: www.gog.com/forum/general/mystery_game_giveaway_2014/post56

+1 for Random Kindness!: www.gog.com/forum/general/1_for_random_kindness/post1

It appears to me that you were so obsessed with looking for the negative and the worst in people that you were unable to pay close enough attention to look into the positive aspects and giving grunthos the benefit of the doubt. I would just like to humbly request that you take a step back for a while to recognize what kind of people are actually causing real harm to this community as well as be a little more thoughtful and less aggressive in your approach when trying to expose them.

I was initially going to post this on the ninja thread where all the drama unfolded but since that thread got locked due to the debacle I decided to post my thoughts on the matter here as I really wanted to get this off my chest which in hindsight might be better as this will be seen by the GOG staff as it is pertaining to the forum experience and they will recognize that the rep system is broken like Momo1991 also highlighted in the MAHAYO post I linked above. I can see a few people would be scoffing and shaking their heads in disapproval reading all of this coming from someone with an extremely low negative rep number, these would be the same who have publicly singled me out in the past or subtly hinted at me being insincere and deserving of this arbitrary number under my name. Just to make it clear once and for all the -/+ button rep system is a real issue because its not intended to be abused to judge others, I am quoting an excerpt from an email I received from GOG support when I highlighted the rep issue as being the cause of many good folks deciding to stop participating actively in the forum. I did not write to support regarding my low rep which they initially presumed, but to highlight the situation of other well regarded really nice members that were for no logical reason being down repped as well:

"We made really intense investigating checking everything we could think of and unfortunately it seems that your very low rep level was reached without any unnatural sources - we haven't found any bots, or other forbidden activities. It simply seems that other users vote negative for the posts."

So if the sole criteria for being a valuable member of this community is giving away games then I have only managed a drop in the ocean so far which is honestly just the beginning and that too not really publicly because I genuinely did not do it to gain rep which I frankly do not care about, no matter whether anyone believes me or not I try to be an active member of this community in other ways because in the end the negativity of a few is far out weighed by the good will and valuable friendship of the many wonderful people which I have come to gain in this community.

www.gog.com/forum/general/spring_insomnia_promo_tracker/post15806

If anyone has managed to read these posts in their entirety then I sincerely apologize to everyone and especially to you Tarnicus as it is truly not my intention to continue to prolong this discussion as the matter is really between you and grunthos but all of this is something that I felt I needed to say. I also implore everyone else not to continue this argument by replying to this and just move on from this whole unsavory episode to get back to the main topic that is improving the user experience of this forum where the spirit of talking about enjoying video games with others takes real precedence. Once again, thank you all of those who suffered through reading my HUGE rambling rant. :)

Report post only covers spam? The code of conduct says:

Be polite and treat others just like you want them to treat you. Everyone should feel comfortable and therefore any language or content that is harassing, intimidating, threatening, discriminating, obscene, pornographic, sexually explicit or offensive in any other way will not be tolerated. This also includes links to such content;

Yet there is no obvious way to report offensive posts, in practice there is a remarkably high tolerance of discriminatory and insulting posts.

So much to reply to with your verbosity but in the spirit not derailing the thread , I will reply succinctly.

Thank you for writing that. To put it simply, I was wrong with the manner in which I conducted myself on these forums with some of what I have written. I have learned from this experience and endeavoured to rectify my mistake regarding the exchange with grunthos64 and will not be conducting myself in such a manner again.

Well said STG83 and well said Tarnicus. I'm really humbled by this community that this really is the nastiest I've ever seen it when concerning intra-member affairs, and yet, one very tasteless comment aside (those that were there in ninja know the one I'm talking about and it was from neither of these people) it was fairly civil. Extraordinary civil by public internet forums standards. I want to shake both your hands, and let's go have some ice cream.

Conversely, to see this place get REALLY nasty, talk about introducing things like regional pricing, pre-order dlc skin-packs, partnership announcements, paid beta (now called 'early access, wtf does that really mean?), etc and we go apeshit devolving into our basest. THAT'S where the real entertainment happens. If GOG's PR team wants to make us all forget about the couple of days of past, they should put one of those 'positive' announcements on the front page again. My pitchfork is still next to my computer waiting to be lit in such circumstances. Those types of events really bring the community together, no matter what your rep. Actually, if I recall correctly, I think having an opinion on the opposing side of popularity got people down-repped too. I concur that rep is dead as long as it can be exploited thusly. The purpose of it was so that we would police ourselves, but without being able to use enhanced interrogation methods patented by the CIA, policing just isn't very fun, and as Tarnicus has found out, can backfire.

Now, so that I haven't gone along the lines of furthering derailment, do we all agree that these forums would be facking HORRIBLE if we allow signatures? Oh, and please don't change the color scheme.

EDIT: Personal opinion here, but I do not find it appropriate that Tarnicus' last post was down-repped. Is it the opinion of those down-reppers that he not learn anything from the experience? What is it that you are trying to express by pressing that little red minus? Use words, please, people.

That type of conversation does belong in a thread discussing forum experiences. That is exactly what this is. Rep is a big part of the forum experience for many people. STG may say that he doesn't really care about the number, but I'm sure he'd tell you that he'd much rather it be a positive, which more accurately matches his idea of his contributions as a person to this community.

I really have my doubts to that. There have been many occasions where whole pages with every single post getting downrepped within seconds. Bots etc probably will have multiple accounts thus are treated as "other users".
If someone says something out of line sure several users will probably downrep that user for it, but whole certain threads, pages long, and every single post in which they all somehow agree?
There is simply just alot of non human behavior, if one can't find something doesn't mean it can't exist.
And i know from others that i am not the only one thinking that.

Oh well atleast 1 of the threads you mentioned closed, let's just hope it will improve on certain things in the forum.

There is no doubt that a script is being used. If GOG haven't found any evidence, it is because they are unaware of the method being used. I was in the thread lugum mentioned last night, and before it was humanly possible, almost the entire conversation was downrepped instantly and then instantly uprepped to counter it, suggestive of someone else using something similar.

Anyway I'm off from the general forums soon once I've sorted a few things as I'm not fond of the overall decline of what was once a joyful place for me to be. I realise that much of this I have brought upon myself, and I did so by looking into how things had changed even further for the worse since I used to regularly frequent here. Best of luck guys in getting this place in order, and it is quite obvious to me that things need to be rectified by the GOG team if they don't want this to hurt their hip pocket. Gifting increases sales. Without a means to more easily determine who is exploiting this generosity, people such as myself(and many others who have already left or taken a break) won't be spending craploads of money on trying to bring a little joy into people's lives. I spent $150 or so purely to try and brighten up the lives of others, but I cannot gift(as I have done in the past) to those who are here merely to take advantage of others generosity. Currently there is no means that is not time intensive to have a fair idea of that.

So yeah, I'm joining the list of those who have given a ton to people on this community and have realised that it has changed too much for the worse due to the structure of the forums making it so easy for people to continue this trend.

http://www.gog.com/forum/general/so_long_and_thanks_for_all_the_fish/post1

The problem is there is no moderators that police the forums.
On the old blizzard forum they used to appoint members from the comunity to be mods wich kept it pretty decent.
The blizard forums nowadays though is a difrent matter, its not like it once was.

What can work, is that Gog appoint some members
to be mods.
The mods dont get any special powers but can warn people when a member is crossing the line.
if you break the same rule 3 times, you are reported to the admins wich is gog staff and they will then decide if thers gonna be any punnishment for the rulebreak.

Oh, and since im already talking.
Please orginize the forum a bit more GoG
Sometimes its driving me nuts to find something in there since its all placed under general discussion.

Overall, I find the forum to be a cool place. Especially when I have a technical question. I am not the best with software and I do not keep up with the latest games, so I sometimes post a question and more informed members of the community have always been very helpful.

I had a bump in the road where a couple of rude people attacked me for my opinions, but no matter where you go you will always find unpleasant, stupid, and rude people. That is just how life is, and I roll with it.

For some reason my rep never seems to go up. I guess that would be my only complaint, but even that is relatively minor since I do not post all the time.

Great games, low prices, no DRM's, and a fun forum. What more can a gamer want?

There really has not been any evidence of bots, and any good sys-admin should be able to detect that type of activity. I believe them if they say there are no down-repping bots. What is not pleasant to think about is that multiple people are acting independently and anonymously down-repping.
rep goes up +1 each day that you post on the forums, or if others up-rep a post of yours, however that is not a 1:1 ratio. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that it takes 3 people to click the green plus on a post to cause your rep to go up by 1.

2 people. ;)

Worst idea ever. Whoever would want to be appointed should not be appointed as they're always the wrong type of person. Even if they're not, the position will corrupt them somehow.

I know someone who thinks mods would be a great idea in here! :D

How will it corrupt them hen they have no special poewers and they need to answer to gog staff and follow the guidelines?
If something has to be done against a member because of rulebreaks i imagine it will be discussed amongst the staff first so you dont get the problem with abuse of power or dictaorship.

Mods can burn out in the long run if thats what you meant though.
Extremly unthankfull job, usally no benifits or rewards
and a pretty big responsobilty.

Well, even in smaller scale forums and more importantly, communities - any amount of power will eventually go to ones head, but in an active place such as this where the community bond is pretty strong, the pressures fromall around will only intensify both that and the whole burning out.
Either way it would be some git who opts to become a mod in the first place most likely. If you check back in older threads, you might see a good number of those calling for moderation are among the worst people for the job.