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Lifthrasil: OK. That part actually is strange. Both his statement of uncertainty (I think by this point we have established that Scum have networked and some modifier that makes them threatening) and the fact, that he bolds a vote while at the same time stating that uncertainty. This feels a bit like covering all bases.

But I'll wait for his reply before deciding. And perhaps for a reply from Joppo or Joe, even though I don't believe that they will answer my question.

As for Micro's survival, I don't find that as strange Today as it was Yesterday. GR was basically confirmed Town, so he was more dangerous for a 3-player endgame than a Micro in who's towniness I had already expressed my doubt. So I can totally see you, if you are the last scum, choosing to kill GR over Micro. ... And if Micro is the last scum, of course he survived the Night and again it makes sense to choose GR over the two of us.
No, no, no...

The progression of my post showed the progression of my thoughts:

1) I got the results that you were conditional and how (weird that i didn't get the condition for yogs, but did for you?? But then Pooka in his fake claim doesn't give conditions either, so??)
2) Then I immediately (knee-jerk) voted Pooka,
3) then doubted so i wrote on the same line so that it wouldn't count
4) then had a brainstorm (no thunder or lightning)
5) realized how what i was thinking made absolute 100% sense
6) then voted Pooka

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PookaMustard: And that's why I mentioned that he should've at least held back with the vote, if he's got that bit of "uncertainty" about me.

I can see him going for that standoff this Day, actually. If I recall, you once mentioned that if I were scum, I'd be playing a strong "buddy up to Townies" game, to which he replied by agreeing with you. By going for the standoff, I believe he's banking on you voting me based on just that, you two agree on this theory so it's easier to convince you.

I don't understand why he hasn't gone all guns blazing on you, though. Sounds like he'd have had less chances to escape the lynch if he had me choose between two people I believed to be Town - which to be honest, I wouldn't be so sure if I would listen to Micro who has somehow survived to this Day or Lift who has a farfetched yet simultaneously convincing theory. And that's about it for my two cents on why he chose me for the standoff. Better odds, basically.
By the end of the post I had no uncertainty at all. None, Nada, zilch, zip, etc.
See above for my chain of thoughts.
Well, your own scum history with me, i had a certain pocket that you so successfully crawled into and I convinced Bookwyrm to off... idr who.
nice try, honestly.
Logic flaws tho, I know I'm town :P I would have offed Lift, and then tried to convince GR.

I wouldn't accuse the one person (Pooka) who (yesterday) took my side against seemingly overwhelming odds.
Why would I? Would I not have a far better chance to continue to attack Lift and convince Pooka, who yesterday couldn't believe I was anything but town, that I was right and Lift was wrong?

That's how I would have played it as scum, anyway.
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Microfish_1: Pooka, my hat is off to you. I didn't suspect you, really, until you were backing me up so hard in face of such extreme logic from Lift. I was being swayed by Lift's logic.
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Microfish_1: Well, your own scum history with me, i had a certain pocket that you so successfully crawled into and I convinced Bookwyrm to off... idr who.
But see, that's the thing with my defense yesterday. I wasn't pocketing you or anything suspicious of the sort, as you like to claim (and would love Lift to believe, perhaps?). I was convincing Lift that scumreading you perhaps isn't the best idea and we're better off scumhunting someone else, to increase our chances of lynching the remaining mafioso. That was the intention behind why I backed you yesterday. Honestly, subconsciously, I rejected the idea that you'd be scum even in the face of Lift's theory.

But hey, turns out I'm wrong, and you really went for that ballsy play. Honestly, I still can't believe it even now, but I have to.

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Microfish_1: nice try, honestly.
Logic flaws tho, I know I'm town :P I would have offed Lift, and then tried to convince GR.
But GR was offed, and I know I didn't bizzaro stab him or whatever you do. And I can see why honestly, GR was practically Town-read by everybody but also unreliable for scum. He's not the kind of person you can easily convince.

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Microfish_1: I wouldn't accuse the one person (Pooka) who (yesterday) took my side against seemingly overwhelming odds.
Why would I? Would I not have a far better chance to continue to attack Lift and convince Pooka, who yesterday couldn't believe I was anything but town, that I was right and Lift was wrong?

That's how I would have played it as scum, anyway.
But here's the thing. The previous Day is in the past. It's this Day now, and you're still alive on the second day after offing yogsloth. Even without a standoff, my reads would have changed to something like "Either Lift or Micro is scum" and leave it at that. There was no way you'd get to live to D4 and keep the "Townie Badge, Satisfaction Guaranteed™️" badge I gave you.

It makes more sense to conflict with me, drum up the "Pooka pockets everyone and everything" theory and sprinkle it with some little WIFOM for Lift. With Lift or GR you'd probably just run entirely on the WIFOM and nothing else.

----

Either way, it's a lot of pressure just going all throughout the game solo, and after launching the wagon on your scumbuddy no less. Lift may have briefly seen through the veil, but I bought everything, hook, line and sinker, so I have to tip my hat off too to you. I don't know how you're feeling at this stage of the game right now, but all I know is it's far from easy. Even if you get lynched today, congrats for making it this far as lone wolf and throwing Town into a nice little loop.
So, how do we proceed from here? Should we wait for a clarification from the mod, that will probably never come? Or do I risk it and decide the game on gut feeling? Because really, both of you could be scum. There is no hard evidence. ... You both of course have a better position for judging. One, because he's scum and one, because he's town and the other one has to be scum.
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Lifthrasil: So, how do we proceed from here? Should we wait for a clarification from the mod, that will probably never come? Or do I risk it and decide the game on gut feeling? Because really, both of you could be scum. There is no hard evidence. ... You both of course have a better position for judging. One, because he's scum and one, because he's town and the other one has to be scum.
Well, it's been 14 hours after you asked, and neither joppo nor JoeSapphire answered. With two mods on the clock, you might as well go for it if you want.
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PookaMustard: But see, that's the thing with my defense yesterday. I wasn't pocketing you or anything suspicious of the sort, as you like to claim (and would love Lift to believe, perhaps?). I was convincing Lift that scumreading you perhaps isn't the best idea and we're better off scumhunting someone else, to increase our chances of lynching the remaining mafioso. That was the intention behind why I backed you yesterday. Honestly, subconsciously, I rejected the idea that you'd be scum even in the face of Lift's theory.

But hey, turns out I'm wrong, and you really went for that ballsy play. Honestly, I still can't believe it even now, but I have to.
LOLOLOLOLOL
1) not making a play on my part, just honest scum hunting
That's not how i read your yesterday
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PookaMustard: I don't believe "bus your partner in a two-team scumteam on D2, unprompted" is a very clever scum tactic. Or a scum tactic in the first place. So I'm effectively Town-clearing Micro. In fact I already done that once yogsloth did the self-hammer thing
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PookaMustard: And if you take into account that there's literally no reason for a scum Microfish to turn on his scumbuddy and begin the Day by literally bussing him, it becomes clear that he more or less said "oh and BTW Micro is Town." That's how I read it.

Another thing about the bus the scumbuddy theory: if a [NETWORKED BRUTAL] Microfish was bussing, then that's very probably going to be based on a mutual agreement between him and yogsloth, that Microfish can carry the game by himself to the finish line. Or in other words, they have to trust Microfish's abilities. I don't believe for a second that yogsloth would ever accept this idea. It's too "high insanity, uncertain reward" to win the game with. Not even Microfish would swallow this idea wholesale, knowing his playstyle.
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PookaMustard: And at that point IIRC neither Micro nor yogsloth were sufficiently scumread enough to warrant pulling off such a kamikaze move.

The question of "Why do it?" is really important here. If both of them are scum, then I find very, very, very little reason for them to do and coordinate what happened in tandem. So this has got to be Town on Mafia violence, but I wasn't sure who was the Town and who was the Mafia...up until yogsloth did the most classic scum move, the self-hammer, then it was clear that he's the Mafioso and Micro is with very little doubt the Townie.
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PookaMustard: Couldn't yogsloth use precisely this kind of thing knowing you'd all happily go "oh wait micro is still sus"? The same person who'd use WIFOM to throw you all in a loop about him by claiming he's scum to get away with being actually really Mafia (Slytherin anybody?) could also use it knowing full well you'd be like "Oh by this move he'd effectively Town-clear Micro since nobody would be ballsy enough to do this play" and therefore trick you into lunching a Town Micro.

Yes it is convenient that the Bookwyrm NK lines up with some of what Micro has said about him, but it doesn't have to be because Micro really sucked at hiding his Scum motivations, it could just be a very crafty yogsloth going out with one bang of a WIFOM
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PookaMustard: Micro I'm sure is Town. No way the standoff was a ballsy scum-scum encounter. A
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PookaMustard: There is a modifier that obscures and hides results on death. Brutal.
Convenient, isn't it? You knowing it and all... :O

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PookaMustard: I realize that yogsloth and microfish are the real attraction of the day, yes I'm very much aware of this. My speculation directly touches upon their conflict.

Doesn't mean I shouldn't suspect GR and use my vote to apply pressure. Besides, it's too early to worry about wagons forming, what's with seven or six days left until deadline. I actually don't intend to have a wagon on GR, I just want him to convince me that this Classic Scum Move(TM) was a honest mistake.
It directly touched because you were trying to saveyour teammate by making a wagon on GR, lol. You very much intended to have a wagon on GR. If I'm wrong I'd like to know post-game.

But yeah, nothing "subconscious" of your rejection of Lift's theory. it was plain as Day to all and sundry.
"isn't perhaps the best Idea" doesn't equal "Micro I'm sure is town"

You can't believe I'd pull that play because I don't think I would and you know I didn't.

Why, for a second, supposing I was scum, would I not claim to you "yep, i investigated Lift and he's scum". You believed me oh, so wholeheartedly yesterday.

You forget, I didn't just *launch* the wagon on your scumbuddy Yogs, I also hitched the oxen, cracked the whip, pounded the nails, and did everything in my power to sink that wagon to where Yogs self-hammered so you didn't have to vote.
You were the only one voting who was not voting for Yogs, oddly enough.

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JoeSapphire: 4 - yogsloth - Microfish_1, Bookwyrm627, GamezRanker, yogsloth,
1 - GamezRanker - PookaMustard,

Not Voting - ettac orrazib si eman ym, Lifthrasil,
Substituting alignment


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JoeSapphire: 4 - SCUM - Town!micro, TOWN, TOWN, SCUM (Yogs)
1 - TOWN - SCUM (Pooka),

Not Voting - NWOT, TOWN!Lift,
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JoeSapphire: 5 - Dogmaus - ZFR, Lifthrasil, Bookwyrm627, Microfish_1, GamezRanker,

1 - Bookwyrm627 - yogsloth,
1 - ZFR - Dogmaus,
1 - Microfish_1 - ettac orrazib si eman ym,
Not Voting - PookaMustard,
or
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JoeSapphire: 5 - Dogmaus - TOWN, TOWN!Lift, TOWN, TOWN!Micro, TOWN,

1 - Bookwyrm627 - SCUM (Yogs),
1 - ZFR - TOWN,
1 - Microfish_1 - NWOT,

Not Voting - Scum!PookaMustard,
We've avoided having more than 2 ending wagons, but you managed to be off both of them.

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PookaMustard: Either way, it's a lot of pressure just going all throughout the game solo, and after launching the wagon on your scumbuddy no less. Lift may have briefly seen through the veil, but I bought everything, hook, line and sinker, so I have to tip my hat off too to you. I don't know how you're feeling at this stage of the game right now, but all I know is it's far from easy. Even if you get lynched today, congrats for making it this far as lone wolf and throwing Town into a nice little loop.
Aw, thanks. it would mean a lot if you were town, and I scum, but I'm not and you know it too. Still, I appreciate the bits that still hold true.
Ofc, your grandstanding is all about convincing Lift to vote me, because you know full well I'll not switch. Are you dissapointed that I reached Lift, or just glad i didn't investigate himself YesterDay instead of Book?

I should have held off the night Book was Yeeted, in case someone else worked, but I didn't.

Also, i don't know about you, but if I was in your shoes, i'd be very unsettled and nail-chewing, pulling myhair, etc (not saying that you do, just what I'd be tempted to do if I was in your shoes.) Instead I'm enjoying this very much.
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Microfish_1: Convenient, isn't it? You knowing it and all... :O
Or, or, you voted yogsloth first thing in the Day, before anybody even realized that there was Cadaver's cadaver on the ground. And you mounted a fierce attack on him, AND yogsloth self-hammered at the end. By this point it was fairly obvious to me that you were undoubtedly Town, at the time anyway. Cause who in their right scum mind would ditch their scumbuddy on D2, completely unprompted? It's not logical isn't it?

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Microfish_1: It directly touched because you were trying to saveyour teammate by making a wagon on GR, lol. You very much intended to have a wagon on GR. If I'm wrong I'd like to know post-game.
No teammate saving was intended. I meant the stuff I said in that post and still do. I have said all that I wanted to say about that conflict, and instead of wasting the rest of the day on it, I meant to do some more scumhunting and then come back to the main show of the day. This way I'd maximize my mileage out of D2, if yogs didn't self-hammer.

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Microfish_1: Why, for a second, supposing I was scum, would I not claim to you "yep, i investigated Lift and he's scum". You believed me oh, so wholeheartedly yesterday.
Because, I don't know, you'd still be alive on D4? You honestly think if I believed you wholeheartedly the previous Day, I'd keep believing you to kingdom come? If you really were Town, you are the most dangerous threat to scum right now, but you aren't. Matter of fact, a Micro-Lift conflict would have me pause in my tracks...similar to how our conflict right now has Lift afraid of rushing to a conclusion, despite him having that theory. But there's better odds with convincing Lift, right?

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Microfish_1: We've avoided having more than 2 ending wagons, but you managed to be off both of them.
But it was obvious why I was not on the dogmaus or yogsloth wagons, is it not?
- I believed fiercely that dogmaus is Town. Sure she played terribly, but why the heck would I happily sign myself up for something I believed to be a mislynch?
- yogsloth self-hammered early, way way way before I planned to get from GR what I wanted. You can go back and find that post where I wholeheartedly agree with someone on extending the day, and obviously I wouldn't agree to an extension if I had nothing more to do, right?

Basically me being off both wagons comes down to 1. beliefs, 2. circumstances. Not foul play. In fact, you ended up voting for dogmaus (who was a mislynch), you set the first vote on yogsloth of all people (I actually find it convenient that you went for him on N1 when common odds are you just found another Townie), and both of us are guilty when it comes to mislynching catte. Basically I don't think my voting record is the silver bullet you think it is.

But hey, I think you did get the memo about conveniently hitting scum in your investigation. It's why you said Lift is Conditional as opposed to Pooka is Networked Brutal.
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Lifthrasil: So, how do we proceed from here? Should we wait for a clarification from the mod, that will probably never come? Or do I risk it and decide the game on gut feeling? Because really, both of you could be scum. There is no hard evidence. ... You both of course have a better position for judging. One, because he's scum and one, because he's town and the other one has to be scum.
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PookaMustard: Well, it's been 14 hours after you asked, and neither joppo nor JoeSapphire answered. With two mods on the clock, you might as well go for it if you want.
Honestly your side deserves to win but I'm not gonna give up and just let scum win.
Sorry ole buddy ole pal but not this time.
OK. Let's do this. If I'm wrong, the other player(s) have deserved the win.

Thoughts:
Scum-Pooka might have kept GR and Micro around and NKd me. GR was suspicious of Micro all Day Yesterday. So it would have been a promising attempt to kill me (the main opponent of Micro), which would have made Micro look bad, and try to win over GR who was anyhow already suspicious of Micro.

Scum-Micro, however, had reason not to kill his main opponent (WIFOM, I know). But had every reason to remove the basically confirmed GR.

About Micro's reads: it still is strange that he didn't get anything on Bookwyrm. NK should resolve last. Otherwise protective roles (not that we seem to have any in this game) would be useless. Of course it is possible that in a Bizarro setup the usual night action resolution sequence is reversed and NKs resolve fist. In that case the effect of 'brutal' would come before the investigation. However, that would be mean of Joe, as that would further reduce the efficiency of all investgative roles (i.e. of all Town roles) who are already handicapped almost to the point of uselessness.

About Pooka's read: I like that he only got brutal and not cited getting murderous too, which was previous the hallmark of a scum read and which might have used by careless scum to fake a read. But reading the modifiers list, brutal includes murderous. ... But of course Pooka read that list too.

So, in conclusion I decide that Micro is more likely to be scum. Partially, I admit, because I want him to be. I want this glorious, daring scum play to have been reality and not only a fantasy in my head. If I am right, I get to rejoice to have seen through one of the most daring plots in GOG mafia history. But if I am wrong, Pooka gets the MOP award. (Master of Pocketing) If he is scum, he plays a very convincing game with a lot of attention to detail.

But really, the way he played throughout the game gave off more Town vibes than Scum vibes. Also, would scum-Pooka have stated his opinion of Micro's Towniness so strongly, without leaving a backdoor? That felt more like Town being wrong (and having to correct his stance Today) than Scum buddying up to Town.

Long speech short:

vote Microfish


Now we wait for the Mod.
@fellow Townies: I really do hope that I'm right. In any case this was a very exciting end game!
Don't you guys look at me. This is Joe's show and it is only proper that I don't steal the ending from him.
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joppo: Don't you guys look at me. This is Joe's show and it is only proper that I don't steal the ending from him.
https://c.tenor.com/-Z5Z4R3bbJEAAAAC/heres-looking-at-you-kid-cheers.gif
The wheel stops spinning suddenly and everybody is thrown into the bizarro air.

"Okay," says Joe. "This might be a problem..." He thinks for some moments as the group hurtles through bizarro plumes of bizarro space dust."We can probably save ourselves if we use somebody as a launchpad to get us to the next stage bagsynotme!" he says putting his finger on his nose.
Quick on the uptake, Joppo's extended digit depresses his own conk.
Microfish launches at Pooka grabbing his hand as it steers towards his face, Pooka cries in alarm and grabs Micro's other arm to prevent pointer-to-hooter contact.
The two are locked in tense strain.
Lift prods his own snoot and looks back and forth between the two wrestlers. The bizarro orchestra begins a tense refrain. The bizarro camera's move in for a close up on Lift's face, bizarro sweat trickling over his brows from an unknown source.


3 - Microfish_1 - Lifthrasil, PookaMustard

1 - PookaMustard - Microfish_1,

0 - Lifthrasil -
0 - No-Lunch -

Not Voting -

Microfish_1 is eliminated, he was [SHY] PSYCHOANALYST.


With a warcry Lift charges and flying kicks Pooka's hand directly into Pooka's own face. Everybody shouts 'You're it you're it shoulda stayed in bed a bit!" then jumps off Micro's back to reach The Final Stage.


It is now the fourth Action Phase.
deadline for night actions in 8 months
The bizarro day dawns on The Final Stage

Joe squints in the light. A figure is silhouetted in the distance, but he can't quite make out who it is...

"I'm the only one left, Joe"

Joe blinks. "Joppo??"

"No, actually he's around here somewhere. I meant I'm the only player left. So you know what that means.
"Do I?" asks Joe suspiciously...
"Yeah! You told me n yogsloth that if we got rid of all the competition then we could be in charge of the whole bizarro dimension!
"Did I?" queries Joe, uncertainly. "I'm not sure I remember, are you sure it was me?"

"Yes I'm sure!" The mystery speaker steps out of the glare.
Joe gasps.
"Pooka! What have you done to Lifthrasil?!"
"I killed him with psychoanalysis." Says Pooka, (Lift is dead he was [conditional] psychoanalyst the condition was and et cetera...) "Like... you told us to." he continues, a little uncertainly.[/i]

"Well look mate, if you want to be queen of the Bizarro universe, go ahead," Joe hands Pooka a crown so fancy it's impossible to imagine it. "But I do think this was all a bit much"

Joppo returns from doing some Joppo business.
"What's happening?" He asks, shrugging to indicate Lift's crumbly corpse.
"Pooka won so now he's queen of the bizarro universe."
"Victoreeeeeee!!!" cries Pooka, gleefully.

Pook was [NETWORKED CONDITIONALLY BRUTAL] PSYCHOANALYST
(The condition was boop boop bedoopa doop)

PookaMustard and yogsloth have WON!!


A large pincer-like piece of bizarro machinery comes smashing across the bizarro horizon, crushing everything it can reach into bizarro paste.

Joe is furious.

"Joppo! Why has that vice been allowed to go about totally unmoderated???" he shrieks icily. "What on earth are you playing at??"
Joppo says something but Joe doesn't hear - he's launched off into a dramatic tirade, pacing the bizarro floor.
"After everything I've done to bring us all here and give us a nice time, first you, pook of all people, go around doing mass murders, second nobody even bothers to ask if I've been enjoying myself and now, to top it all off, the one person who all I asked of them was to follow my every instruction to the letter now turns round and throws-"
Joe gestures dramatically.
"This in my face! Well. That's it. I'm not putting up with it any more. Everybody go home.

Joe presses a button and the bizarro dimension begins collapsing in the distance.

"What?" says Pooka, crestfallen, "but... all this work! You mean I won't get to rule anything??"
"You should have thought about that before." says Joe, glaring sternly at nobody in particular.


They wave goodbye to the shark and the penguin tyrannosaur and the giant wheel and a few of the other bits of the bizarro dimension, grab hold of the ribbon that has been tied round everybody's ankles the whole time, and teleport back to the real world, just in time to get CadaFR, Bookwyrm, GR and Lift to hospital.

THE END










Epilogue

Joe grabs Joppo's shoulders. "We left gogtrial in the bizarro dimension!!!!!"
Well done, Pooka. You totally pocketed me (and also I got stuck in my own beautiful logic concerning Micro).

Here's your reward!
*hands Pooka a golden mop*


@Micro and all other Townies: sorry for letting you down!
Congratulations Pooka and Yog. And my condolences on not getting to rule the Bizarro dimension after all, but I was curious about what that button would do...

@Joe: Whew. For an instant I thought it was someone I liked. :-p

Well done to several players. Gotta commend Micro's play, IMHO it was the best game from him ever. If Pooka hadn't also played an astounding match scum would lose super easily.

GR also gave me the impression that he's improved a lot in this game. And Bookwyrm in the dead chat was certain that the last scum was Pooka ages ago.
Speaking of the dead chat:

First Observer thread: https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/q2i3nT8aGdS . It was in use until QT fell into a coma.

Second Observer thread: https://whyquicktopicwhy.proboards.com/thread/2/quicktopic-mourning-thread

and the scumchat: https://thebizarronetwork.proboards.com/thread/2/pooka-yogsloth

List of roles and modifiers:

Cadaver747 - [HALF] PSYCHOANALYST
GamezRanker - [BACKUP HALF] PSYCHOANALYST
ettac orrazib si eman ym- [CONDITIONAL (action fails if another of your team acts)] PSYCHOANALYST
Microfish_1 - [SHY] PSYCHOANALYST
Pooka - [NETWORKED CONDITIONALLY BRUTAL] PSYCHOANALYST
Lifthrasil - [CONDITIONAL (action fails if another of your team acts)] PSYCHOANALYST
Dogmaus - [CONDITIONAL (action fails if another of your team acts)] PSYCHOANALYST
Bookwyrm627 - [HALF] PSYCHOANALYST
yogsloth - [NETWORKED CONDITIONALLY MURDEROUS] PSYCHOANALYST

Stay tuned, Joe will reveal all the night actions. (I think)
Post edited December 02, 2021 by joppo