exact wording
yeah, i said it was off-the-top of my head.
@505 i can honestly see the "let GR take a lunch to town-clear Yogs" as a far more believable scenario than the other way around. no offense meant, of course.

Okay I think Lift is saying the counter claim to dogmaus wouldn't have happened so fast if he'd been scum.

I know, i shouldn't go counter-suspicioning any who sus me. but i was exhausted at the time and it just rubbed me wrong.

I honestly cannot see any world in which I can see being willing for myself to run scum the rest of the game by my lonesome.

We have 5 players, iirc (Micro GR, Lift, Catte, pooka)
if we fail to hit scum tonight, we are at MYLO Tomorrow.

As such I *really* don't like that Catte has been quiet all day.

ROFL, thanks for the laugh, I needed it. Yeah, I misspelled :D

I only got the word "conditional".
In full Other than my absence, you stated here that you were "reluctant to town-clear [micro]" why?
What exactly have I said that you find scummy?
you then suggest to consider me towny for toDay. Yet you vote me. Explain?

@507 why don't you aske me directly instead of asking Lift about my intentions?
I already answered. After having been so beautifully pocketed by Pooka in that game where I was the IC (leading to a town loss), I am suspect of anyone who seems to follow my own thought patterns too closely.
Bookwyrm was stating what i wanted to state, but was doing so so succinctly, so pithily, that I was wary of anyone mounting a series of posts in my defense. I wanted to make sure he wasn't scum trying to hide after I found 1 scum.

@Lift, if you are still trying to pretend to be voting me because of the whole "I didn't role claim when i voted, then I used 3 modifiers you'd already discussed" lol what?
I mean, the flip proved me right, I came out of the gate swinging in my very first post of D2 trying to nail Yog's hide to the fence. my 2nd post when i saw no one would believe me without a result i tipped my hand and went full-bore. I reasoned, I rationalized, i tried to find holes in my conclusions after Yog's beautiful AtE defense. This resulted in my publically doubling down and swinging yet again for Yogs.

Do you honestly think any scum person would have gone "I'm gonna vote for my [scum team mate] and nobody but nobody can get me to change my vote today," thus creating a wagon and promising to stick to it until the bitter End?

@GR why not someone else? because at the time I was more concerned about being pocketed than about the rest of you all, about whom i had very few ideas. If i am the lunch, I direct your attention to ... idk who. Why do you say i'm likely town, but vote me and refuse to consider lift or pooka as scum?

Also... Just because Player A was scum in game A doesn't mean they are in game B... you should know this, yet that is essentially what Joe did. We don't know how the dice rolled, and other than the fact that Yogs was scum, and one of the scum at least was a psychoanalyst, we know nothing about them. Lift's being scum in game 74.0 has zero bearing on the case.

My eyes are welling with tears at the beauty, the simplicity, the sense of this post. I would hate to be solo. I'd be talking Joe's ear off (ask ZFR!) and he'd grow to dislike me, I'm sure. :( Even though this post could be read as being insulting to my playstyle, I Wholeheartedly Endorse it.

@511 I have used that strategy before as town. Multiple times, in fact. the fact that you don't recall it is very Strange Indeed.
Fine, don't take Yog's words/hint for it. I woyuldn't want you to. instead, consider facts and realize it would be stupid for me to try and do this by myself. In every way that counts I'd be nutso to try.

Right now, not having seen anything from Catte, really, since D3 began, I'd say that Lift is the remaining scum. Ofc, GR could be sitting happy knowing Lift is painting me as scum, but that seems odd.
So maybe (given my track record), i should vote Catte instead.
If Lift was scum, why did he go for Book instead of me?
He figured he'd get the analysis guy and pin D3 on an easy target (me or GR) Success so far!

As scum, Lift knows that sometimes (often) you go for the person who has been very analytical (see Bookwyrm's post #423 )&442?))
OR
you go for the towniest person
OR
you go for the NK that will give little info.
Bookwyrm fit #1 and #3 he also suspected Pooka, which would fit a scum!pooka theory.

Lift was concerned that Book was defending a scumbuddy (supposedly me) when i was attacking Yogs.

"town arsonist yogs?" Seriously? i mean DUDE That role isn't even in the game!!!!!


GR has been made to lean-town for me by EoD1 convos and claim
Catte for very similar reasoning (soft-claim etc)
Pooka is NAI
Lift is scummy yet logical
I'm town.
Dogmaus said Lift was scummy. Just because she was wrong about ZFR's alignment doesn't = she's wrong about all reads.

Yogs refused to say "yay" or "Nay" on Lift.

I think Catte's soft-claim means he isn't totally cleared--not as much as GR, that is.

Lift seems to be very engaged in the game, which I like, but his reasoning is so far from the truth that i have to wonder and doubt.

I'm debating a prod-vote for catte or a serious Lift-vote

serious wins for now

vote lift
because of the chain of logic deliberately set out to make me look scum when i know i'm town (I asked the mod), but based on the false premise that town wouldn't verify someone they read as town, and other reasons.

But why not end the "day" early, as per this game's tradition....I mean don't ya like quickly ended "days" with lynches on every day? Isn't that what ya wanted? ;D

Jokes aside, I agree....we can/should wait awhile and see what Micro has to say/etc.

I sorta was as well(check the end of Post 461).....then Yogs decided to not delay the inevitable.

Still, you stayed on my wagon for quite some time, and iirc you didn't explain the reasoning behind that vote/wagon*.
(* feel free to correct me if i'm wrong/misremember)

Exactly.....and I didn't fare so well, now did I? Yet for some reason you seem to be suggesting/thinking I am doing similar again(being scum with Yogs trying to win the game alone after their self hammer).

Well there's also the fact that I don't think Lift would likely be re-rolled as scum by Joe, and Catte I have leaned more town than scum due to his counter claim against Dogmaus on D1 and etc. I know i'm not scum, so who is left besides Micro? ;)

Seems odd....seeing as others got the same wording I did.
Of course, I could also be overthinking mod PM text. Hmm....

I hear ya...I tried it once(the shining game, as Pooka said) and it didn't turn out so good o.0

Speaking of: I hope I don't get stuck in the F3....I don't think I could take that kind of pressure(helping pick to decide the end fate of the game like that)......but if it happens then it happens, I guess. ;D

Things like:
1. You being the only one to somehow get a result, and it just happened to be one of the scum team
2. You analyzing a player you felt to be town last "night"(book) instead of someone you suspected.....and that the same person you analyzed also coincidentally was the NK target.
3. General gut feeling
4. etc

I am leaning you town for some reasons and scum for others.

Anyhoo, atm(as I said above to Pooka, Post 527) I have two main suspects left, you and Pooka....had to pick one, so I went with the above reasons and picked you to be the one who got my vote(for now....unless something changes my mind, that is).

So you did suspect him somewhat? Hmm....(also thanks for answering)

As I said in this same post, I DO consider Pooka as possible scum......every other player is on my suspects list, actually(as no one is verified town to me but me), with you and Pooka at the top of the list atm.

As I also said to Pooka above(post 527), I don't think Joe would've rolled Lift as scum in the reboot.....just a hunch/etc. So while it could be possible, I find it highly unlikely.

All the above said, if your wagon doesn't go anywhere i'd also be willing to vote Pooka for D3.

A quick head's up: I will likely be gone for the next 12-14 hours(sleep and important errands to help the family IRL), so if anyone replies to the above or has any questions, I will tend to such at that time.

Also i'd like to note: Micro has been at L-1 for 8 hours or so....interesting...what do y'all think of that fact?

That is interesting. In Game 1, when I got my read on Pooka, I also got an explanation what the condition is.

I did. Read Post #521

Nope. That's not my point. Read Post #521

Yes. If the goal is to intentionally bus one scum team member to buy hard Town credit for the other. Only then said scum person would afterwards stress that no scum ever would act this way ... oh, wait. That's exactly what you are doing!

Did you really not get that reference? After the 'Town Arsonist' has been a running gag for years in this Mafia community? Or do you just pretend that you didn't get it? My point is: if there is one person who does ballsy plays, it's Yogs. Hell, he even claimed Town Arsonist in this game - as a joke, of course - but already this, a jokey false-claim, shows that Yogs is quite ballsy. And if you add his past performance in previous games it shows, that Yogs does attempt outrageous ploys and succeeds with them. I can totally see him construct such a 'proving the Towniness of one player by hard-bussing the other' strategy and pulling you along.

Why? I had the impression that Book was less analytical than in previous games and also his flip doesn't give especially little information. If scum would have aimed for 'little information' they probably would have gone for Catte. And still, on the other side there is you, a claimed, successful investigator. A much more juicy target than the 'analytical' Bookwyrm who could have been used as distraction, because some saw him as scummy. That doesn't add up.

Did you ask him in scum chat? ;-)

Yea. I expected this. I mean, what else can you do. As scum you have to fight back. And if you really are Town, which I doubt, my observations will look like a well constructed attack. Which still wouldn't change their validity. Maybe the reasons you give for selecting Bookwyrm as target are true. But in that case they show that your priorities are vastly different from mine, when I investigate players. So maybe it is a personal difference between us. But to me it looks more like an alignment difference. As I said, your choice looks more fitting to scum than to town.


Well, yes. Pooka would be a fallback solution. Just by exclusion of all others.
However, my problem here is that Pooka seems to be quite serious in his defense of Micro. He honestly seems to buy the 'Micro would never do that as scum' argument. And I very much assume that we only have one scum left. So Pooka's defense of Micro can't be to protect a scumbuddy. In other words it looks more like Pooka is trying to defend someone that he sees as useful scum PR. Of course this could be scum Pooka buddying up to Micro, whom he left alive for this very reason. But to me it feels more like Town-Pooka honestly defending someone he sees as town. Like he defended Dogmaus on D1.

About Catte: yes, his absence looks bad. And his reaction to Dogmaus Claim was similar to GR's one. So he got some town points there. However, he didn't actually claim. He phrased his reason for suspecting Dogmaus more noncommittal. Something along the line of "I know now that you are scum. Guess why!" and not, like GR: "Aha! Got you! I am the Psychoanalyst! Your claim is false!"

So, I see a slightly higher chance of Catte being scum than GR being scum. My rating is therefore thus:

Myself (I know I'm Town).
GR (quite sure Town.)
Catte (leaning Town by behaviour. weakened by his absence.) and Pooka (leaning Town by behaviour - but might be Scum with a pronounced preference for buddying up to select town players)
Micro (leaning scum)

Didn't read the post above yet, will do so when I get back online. Until then, to make sure the "day" doesn't end too early this time:

Unvote Micro

(will most likely put my vote back on Micro later when I get back to my pc)

It's spelled TOWN ARSONIST with every possible way of emphasizing it.

I apologize to the players and the mod for the intrusion. Please, proceed.

Hey guys, I'm aware I've not tended to the game for a couple of days. I haven't forgotten and I'll make time for it this evening. Don't do anything stupid without me!

I said as much in 502
@529 either Catte or Pooka is scum and didn't notice I was at L1, OR you or Lift are scum and can't nudge me over the edge...and are trying to build town-rep by voting on a wagon you know can't go anywhere.

Face it, we have the town on the ropes. If we find one more we win (I'm not considering that Joe gave us 3 scum). (I'd be interested to know if Yogs can still talk in scum-chat.)

@Yogs, I hope you had a good weekend!



1) Huh, weird and interesting. i wonder if that was granted only to scum to help balance, or if it was due to a role/modifier...or if my not getting the conditions is due to my modifier
2. I admit tht my choice of Bookwyrm looks really bad. But it was done in innocence, a "make sure you can trust you ally" tactic.
In a twisted way, 521 does make sense, only it is totally off the mark in this instance.
3. Yeah, even then i wouldn't do it on D2...that's just silly. I'd wait until D3 at best. (However, if I remember in a future game, I might give it a try.) What possible benefit could there hypothetically be to doing it on D2 instead of D3 if I was hypothetically scum ?

4. I've seen reference to a town arsonist before, but if it is a running gag, i wasn't around for that game. Also, I admit to not having read any games that I wasn't part of.
I wasn't sure if this was reference to a joke, or if it was reference to something else.
Humph, well you have more experience (with mafia and with Yogs) than I, so I will bow to your wisdom here.

5. We'll agree to disagree there

6. NO :-)

7. Assuming for a second that you are telling the truth, I think it comes down to a personality difference.
Also, i did not expect to be in D3, and so my motives for investigation N2 were different than if I expected to live in D3. To wit, I investigated for my personal benefit so I would know in the observer thread if my reads were all wrong or not, instead of [thinking about and then] investigating for the maximum benefit of town.
I guess when I investigate for myself (as I did last game after joining the observer thread), it tends to be more to satisfy my raging curiosity, knowing that nothing I did or didn't do mattered to town at that point. Compare to when I investigate for my team in which case i try for maximum benefit. I still might have gone to book, or more likely i might have gone for someone I was really unsure of.
Please explain further why scum-me would claim I investigated Book if I was going to NK him?
What benefit does this give me?

8. Thanks re Pooka & Catte.

If you are scum, i tip my hat to a very good scum player. if town, you're wrong, but I can't really fault your thought process anymore than i have in this post. in fact, i can rather see how, given the difference-in-investigating-preferences, why you could/would think the way you do as town.
But what if you are wrong? You admit going in with WIFOM and choosing the more/most roundabout way to assume my guilt?

Anyway, I cannot face such logic squarely, and so I

vote Catte

Dedo! I'm glad to see others watching and hopefully enjoying this!

OK. I can buy the 'investigating for your own curiosity' aspect. I didn't expect you to be around Today either, so if you are Town, that expectation is understandable. Although I, in your place, would still have investigated one of your two main suspects. I mean, if you have two suspects in a game this small, the sensible thing is to investigate one of them. Either you hit scum, or you can clear one of them, and, on the chance that you survive, concentrate on the other afterwards. ... But well, yes, it is possible that you are Town and that you are telling the truth.

About the benefit of claiming to have investigated you NK target. There are two:
- you don't have to make a statement about anyone else. Any read on a player who still participates would either clear that player (which is dangerous for scum in such a small game) or create conflict, which is dangerous before LYLO, because if Town mislynches following one of your reads, you're the lynch target the next Day.
- on the off chance that we're not all Psychoanalysts, you would be safe against a Tracker or similar who saw you visiting Bookwyrm.

Although, for completeness sake, I in your place (assuming you're scum) would have made up a positive result instead of claiming to have had no success. ... However, that was made difficult by the {compiler error} that maybe also hid the modifiers that a Psychoanalyst would have seen to scum.


Hmm. Maybe my thoughts about you are wrong. But the problem is, that you're the only one I have a scum read on. For all others I have some reason to assume that they are Town. Only shaky reasons in the case of Pooka and Catte, but better than nothing. ... We'll see what Catte contributes. And then I'll have to re-read you entirely and make up my mind whether to switch to Catte or Pooka or not.

P.S. to explain the TOWN ARSONIST thing a bit more: in a game a long time ago, Yogs claimed to be a Town Arsonis. Now Arsonist is a quite decidedly anti-town role. No one would expect to see an Arsonist on Town side, but Arsonist is, if it's used at all, either scum or a SK type neutral. So everyone said: "This is such an unbelievable claim, that it HAS to be true!" and "No scum would ever claim such an anti-Town role. If this were a false claim, why would anyone claim such an anti-Town role instead of something useful?" And thus the totally outrageous and, at first glance stupid, false claim carried Yogs to victory. Because everyone was sure that it had to be genuine because no scum would ever to such a thing.

Lesson learned: rules, what scum would do and what not don't apply to Yogs. He has mastered the art of WIFOM, using it to create situations where most players assume that someone HAS to be Town because 'scum would not benefit from such an action'.

This is also the reply to 'why would we do this on D2?' ... Because that helps with making it appear as if it couldn't be a scum ploy.

Yes, I am aware that all this is WIFOM and that is why I don't only look at the standoff and don't accept it as 'scum would never do this', but try to also look at everything else.

I was voicing thoughts I had during the night, like how you often do. :P

Well, if it's worth anything my results were:

N1 - Lift - NOTHING HAPPENED
N2 - Pooka - YOU DIDN'T GET A RESULT

Not sure if the differences give an insight into the reasons for failure or if Joe just likes to mix it up.

Well that's pretty simple.

I was
a) waiting for you to come back so I could better understand your reasoning about saying Yogs wasn't conditional and
b) not online when Yogs self-hammered.

Hmm...

;o;


Yeah, the WIFOM isn't helpful other than to demonstrate that can't really read anything about Micro's alignment from what Yogs did or said.

lolle

I know, you were asking Lift. The misquote makes it look pretty funny.

Knife of you to be concerned, hopefully you'll see this post spoon.

Hmm, interesting that your vote came only two posts after Lift's (and the post inbetween was also yours).

Well if Joe genuinely rerolled the roles it wouldn't affect the likelihood of Lift being scum at all. Lift had just as much chance of rolling scum this time around as anyone else and that probability isn't diminished at all by him having previously been scum. But we don't actually know what Joe did, so there's no point in guessing other than to say that there's no reason to assuming Lift isn't scum this time around. The first version of the game happened in another dimension and has no bearing on this one.

That IS interesting! Of course you could be scum right now and lying about the first game to discredit Micro, and so the WIFOM goes. Still, that discrepancy does make me think that one of the two of you might be scum. Interesting...

Uhhhh...

I see...

@Lift, thank you for the explanations and reasoning; I appreciate them. That is good to know about Yogs. Yeah, I was really kicking myself as soon as the Night ended.

@ettaC

Whups!! :( :( :( I'm sure scum got a laugh out of that >:( I meant scum ofc.

Also, I see. I wish I was as good at vocalizing my thoughts into funny strings the way you, GR, and Joe are.

Thanks for explaining your lack of vote.

That discrepancy with Lift is interesting. I know I'm town, I did not get any such modifier read. When I flip town...
Did Lift claim to know modifiers before or after I said what I did? If he said it before me, than we have another conflict, and if not... I blew a perfectly good trap.

Yeah, the vote on you is from a lack of better targets, as it were.
Lift's logic is good (could be very town-appearing-scum)
GR's attack of Dogmaus seems town
Pooka's defense and failure to lunch me makes him seem town unless...it is head gamez and he is scum hoping to clear his name for Tomorrow at MYLO.
@Catte, other than your soft-claim on D1 you've been nuetral

Hmm.....interasting....

That bit of Micro's post was to me, afaik.

Yeah, I also feel that if Pooka is scum then all that could be Pooka trying to appear town and such. Still, like you I suspect Micro somewhat more......Pooka is just there as a potential "backup plan" for D4 if Micro somehow turns out to be town.

Speaking of.....i'm somewhat surprised scum didn't remove me instead of Bookwyrm on N2...given I helped lynch a scum player and all.

What do you think is more likely for town!me: that scum left me alive as a distraction or to get rid of Book due to his better(in some ways) playing of the game?

*GR smiles a bit* I'll try, but I can make no promises :D

Fair point

Are those the exact words? If so, then it seems the results wording can differ.
Still, it seems to show that one can either fail or get no result....I wonder what it all means.....

One thing: there haven't been many posts from others this "day", as you can plainly see.
Anyhoo, was thinking about voting Micro before that, but: I kept second guessing(in my mind) who to vote for, and also felt sorry for Micro's earlier IRL and wanted to give him some more in-game time.

Fair enough....I still don't think Joe would likely make Lift scum again in the reboot, but I admit there might be a slight chance of such. Anyways, my main suspects continue to be Micro and Pooka, unless something else changes my mind.