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trentonlf: I believe ZFR is town, I have no interest in brigging a town player
Interesting. And you're so sure of your read that you are not even willing to make use of a mechanic that can, in this case, only be bad for scum. In other words, a mechanic that only scum would have an interest in preventing in this case (if ZFR is scum)

If ZFR is town, this is just too much insistence on your non-voting principle on your part. But if he should be revealed to be scum (by investigation or whatever), then I think you just slipped.
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trentonlf: I believe ZFR is town, I have no interest in brigging a town player
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Lifthrasil: Interesting. And you're so sure of your read that you are not even willing to make use of a mechanic that can, in this case, only be bad for scum. In other words, a mechanic that only scum would have an interest in preventing in this case (if ZFR is scum)

If ZFR is town, this is just too much insistence on your non-voting principle on your part. But if he should be revealed to be scum (by investigation or whatever), then I think you just slipped.
I’ve already stated if I believe someone is town I will not vote them, why would I all of a sudden change that view? I have also stated I think the brig is a bad idea and we shouldn’t use it, why would my view all of a sudden change on that?
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trentonlf: I’ve already stated if I believe someone is town I will not vote them, why would I all of a sudden change that view? I have also stated I think the brig is a bad idea and we shouldn’t use it, why would my view all of a sudden change on that?
Because a really good case has been made as to how it isn't detrimental to town, but possibly detrimental to scum. I've not seen you refute that particular case.
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trentonlf: I’ve already stated if I believe someone is town I will not vote them, why would I all of a sudden change that view?

I have also stated I think the brig is a bad idea and we shouldn’t use it, why would my view all of a sudden change on that?
1. because brigging is something different than regular voting.

2. because it has been explained at length that in this specific case brigging ZFR can't be bad for town. Only for scum. So it's only a 'bad idea' for scum! And any town player should try to make scum's life more difficult if there is a chance to do so.

As I said, if you are town, you are sticking too much to your principle, which doesn't even apply to this case. But if you are scum, you may just have revealed yourself.
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trentonlf: I’ve already stated if I believe someone is town I will not vote them, why would I all of a sudden change that view? I have also stated I think the brig is a bad idea and we shouldn’t use it, why would my view all of a sudden change on that?
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SirPrimalform: Because a really good case has been made as to how it isn't detrimental to town, but possibly detrimental to scum. I've not seen you refute that particular case.
If I had ZFR as possible town or leaning town I might be convinced to brig him (and that would still take a lot of convincing), but I have him as town so not happening.
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trentonlf: If I had ZFR as possible town or leaning town I might be convinced to brig him (and that would still take a lot of convincing), but I have him as town so not happening.
You can't read people in absolutes like that. Unless of course you know something we don't know.
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trentonlf: If I had ZFR as possible town or leaning town I might be convinced to brig him (and that would still take a lot of convincing), but I have him as town so not happening.
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SirPrimalform: You can't read people in absolutes like that. Unless of course you know something we don't know.
The only absolute I know is that I’m town, but I feel strongly enough that ZFR is also that I have no interest in his lynch or brigging. The fact that most everyone else seems to have an issue with me over my thoughts on the matter doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

Look for votes to brig ZFR elsewhere
super quick scan pre-work

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adaliabooks: Funny, why did you completely ignore it then? Patented bler dodge again?
Well, the question wasn't asked of me specifically, so how is responding at all a dodge, exactly?

Besides, I made the same argument that Lift did (with a hint of damnation's response), Lift just seemingly answered it more thoroughly as I bounced off to other topics. Assuming 10 alive D3, and I happen to be one of them, I would know quite a bit more than I currently do.



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adaliabooks: That's not pretty formidable, that's the pretty standard scum team combo. Why does that justify having a second cop?
A deputy just doesn't really make sense in this set up, and is the kind of claim I would pull out if I were scum.
Add the miller - you talked about the upside of a cop, but godfather/miller creates 2 possibilities in 12 cop comes out defending a wrong read, and a) gets killed (strongman/mis-lynch) and b) potentially leads town down the wrong path.

As Mark Twain never said " It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble, but things you know for sure that just ain't so."

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Lifthrasil: But kidding aside, if I'm right and cristi flips scum, you'll move out of that comfy 'probably town' area for me. My leading theory is still HSL+cristi+ZFR ... but the latter only because he wasn't lynched at the end of D1. Perhaps it's HSL+crsti+bler after all? Even though your scum-hunting seems genuine, I really don't agree with your conclusions. Somehow we seem to think in opposite ways.
That's fine.

But seriously, have we ever agreed in a mafia game?

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Damnation: First off; welcome back, Trent! It's good to have you here, that means my reads on you are not nullified :)
Anyhow; this. All of this! Cristi exclaims she needs time for her claim, and while not necessarily in the danger zone, her remarks bely her feeling a lot of stress and pressure. This doesn't make her buckle. She claimed now, with what she thought was 24-hours to go, and 3 votes from lynching. Why?
Couple this with the fact that her role is BACKUP Cop. Not Cop, not Insane Cop, but BACKUP. That means she has no power as she slightly implied during EoD1, but more importantly; it makes her vanilla as of right now. Sure, vanilla with upside in case of the (potentially unexisting) Cop dies. Until then, she is vanilla. If she dies before said Cop, she remains vanilla. She bemoaned us for not lynching a vanilla, so I really wonder why she thought she was more worthy of staying here than ZFR?
No matter which way I turn this, I only come up with Cristi having claimed vanilla, and one-upping ZFR's vanilla claim, and nothing more. Her death doesn't remove power from the town anymore than ZFR's death would, but it might pack more information - given what we would do with the fact that a backup Cop existed, should she flip Town Deputy as she claims.
Now that's a compelling argument.

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elebutterfly: bler, SPF, ZFR, what would it take to get you back on the cristi wagon? You all say you would be okay with lunching with cristi, though you're all voting for adaliawyrms at the minute, I think. We are EOD-24 hours, more or less. Not to rush you or anything, but what do you hope to achieve here?
I'm pretty sure I said last night I'd come over to cristi, of the two I'd just reeeeally rather lynch adalia. Both because I find him toastier, and b/c if he is toaster, I think the wyrm swapperoo is going to make him nigh invincible for D3.

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PoppyAppletree: Also, as a replacement for HSL has not been forthcoming, I will unfortunately have to modkill him if a subtitute has not taken his spot before the final 24 hours begin.
I'll be on tonight and cristi is L-2 (L-1 if we brig ZFR). If a modkill is imminent, I don't see any rush to vote cristi. We may as well see that flip today and discuss whether/how that changes the table.

If anything I'd probably hold off on brigging ZFR (though I intend to do that too).

Late for work! Have fun.
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trentonlf: The only absolute I know is that I’m town, but I feel strongly enough that ZFR is also that I have no interest in his lynch or brigging. The fact that most everyone else seems to have an issue with me over my thoughts on the matter doesn’t bother me in the slightest.

Look for votes to brig ZFR elsewhere
Not looking for votes, trying to understand your logic. Which I now accept I may never do. :S
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bler144: Add the miller - you talked about the upside of a cop, but godfather/miller creates 2 possibilities in 12 cop comes out defending a wrong read, and a) gets killed (strongman/mis-lynch) and b) potentially leads town down the wrong path.

As Mark Twain never said " It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble, but things you know for sure that just ain't so."

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Lifthrasil: But kidding aside, if I'm right and cristi flips scum, you'll move out of that comfy 'probably town' area for me. My leading theory is still HSL+cristi+ZFR ... but the latter only because he wasn't lynched at the end of D1. Perhaps it's HSL+crsti+bler after all? Even though your scum-hunting seems genuine, I really don't agree with your conclusions. Somehow we seem to think in opposite ways.
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bler144: That's fine.

But seriously, have we ever agreed in a mafia game?
Not as far as I remember.
For example I don't see how a backup cop would offset the false reads of a cop due to Miller and Godfather. A backup cop would get exactly the same false reads as the original cop, after all.
Hi everybody!

Sorry, my evacuation-from-london device failed, so I ended up AFK (away from keyhole) even longer than I was expecting!

I've only skimmed so far... sorry again.

Cristi claimed!
I'm inclined to believe the claim based on "Crew Lieutenant" - it fits the role more than the character, as does Gaius Baltar Crew Betrayer, which lends it believabilty. The most compelling thought for me is the thought that Lieutenant would be a risky title to falsify: Whatwith there being characters on the show with the title, (I'm fairly sure it's not Felix' rank in the show, has that been mentioned?) That maybe seems contrary, but the very fact that it's a controversial title makes more more convinced it's not false.

Trent! Glad you're back!
Your first few posts gave me a really creepy feeling and I was almost convinced someone had got into your account and was mocking us all, but then you wrote "I think Zephyr is town and I refuse to brig someone I believe to be town [interpolated]" And I'm fully reassured. I guess it was just separation anxiety or something.

ZFR - I've also dreamed about this game - I've had I think three dreams now where I've double-posted and it's merged and I've gone "ARGH why did I do that?"


I'll brig ZFR if I'm needed for the wagon to pass, but as I'm inclined to believe his claim, I'd rather stick where I am and try. Actually no. I voted to brig flubbucket because I thought if SirP is going to keep blocking him then he may as well be in the brig. But why should I assume SPF will?

unbrig Flubbucket

and yeah, I can't see any huge risk (other than feeling like a dick) to voting

brig ZFR


SO: I RECKON that if cristi's falsifying her title it's an interesting choice: I was going to say it's well done, but it's not all that well done if I'm the only one that's convinced by it.
There's a possibility that her role is "Cylon Lieutenant" but that would imply such a different thing, and wouldn't necessarily ensure there wasn't also a 'Crew Lieutenant"
It's also possible that the mafia have been offered believable falseclaims "Everybody knows you as Crew Lieutenant, but you are in fact Cylon Bumbaclaat" or whatever.

WITH that in mind I'm not totally against lunching Cristi.

Or Flubbucket! Once again we have action without explaination. AW man I don't know. I'd vote Crist now but I'm not sure how many she's got already.

I think I'm happy lunching Lifthrasil. Yeah I'm fine with that. Once again, I'm happy to lynch any of you, except ZFR has switched from most-favourite to avoid-if-at-all-possible.

PROBABLY I should stop being so wishy-washy and try and get some definite convictions. Maybe tomorrow...
Update: yogsloth has agreed to replace HSL.
What up people.

Hard-claim Neutral Bulletproof Berzerker.

Cliffs please.
The "extra fresh" votecount.

Lynch:

cristigale - 5 (Lifthrasil, adaliaBookwyrms, elebutterfly, trentonlf, Damnation)
adaliaBookwyrms - 4 (cristigale, ZFR, SirPimalform, bler144)
SirPrimalform - 1 (flubbucket)

Brig:

ZFR - 5 (Lifthrasil, adaliaBookwyrms, ZFR. SirPrimalform, JoeSapphire)
flubbucket - 1 (elebutterfly)

With 12 active players, it takes 7 votes to reach a consensus.

The deadline for the end of Day 2 is Saturday 21st of July at 23:00 UTC.
Man, so weird to check back into the land of weeks-long Days and closed setups.

I read the OP, so I get the brig mechanic. Interesting.

Can somebody summarize the role-claims, if any?