I think that FroburnPhoenix being the N1 NK target here was more or less expected. Which sucks doubly so as they should have been every townie's towncore member after the way EoD1 went.

Sorry to see LordCephy go, hope things are manageable, and that they return for a future game. Their departure, however, introduces two problem for me - it'd have been interesting to see how they'd react and carry themself after FrostburnPhoenix's flip, and Dessimu can't be questioned/directly hold accountable for anything LordCephy has said, plus it's going to be a sort of D1 with Dessimu stepping in. Anyway - welcome Dessimu, happy to see you, also ready to see you dead if you're a baddie.

So, first thing I want us to do is go back to D1 and EoD1 in relation to bucktoothgamer. In his final moments, he did the smart thing and avoided talking about people he hadn't brought up in some way before he was taken to lunch. Note, however, that this was the first time he rolled scum in a mafia game, so I thought we could glean something from his activity, and looked into his ISO for spew:
-- Post #12: RVS vote on Catte based on the change of character name.
-- Post #142: draws attention to babark's absence.
-- Post #197: wants to RVS vote Catte (again!); shades both FrostburnPhoeniz and Ambit0nZ, the latter with quite some fear-mongering based on last game's mislynches; unvotes Catte.
-- Post #218: another attack on FrostburnPhoenix.
-- Post #312: kind of defends me.
-- Post #336: townread on me and ZFR, accepts ZFR's town-lean/read of Ambiti0nZ; votes RWarehall with an incomprehensible reason.
-- Post #366: more shading of FrostburnPhoenix and Ambiti0nZ.
-- Post #407: last minute reluctant shade on me.

That's it, rest of his posts he was in anti-spew mode.

Observations (going to leave out FrostburnPhoenix for obvious reasons):
- Catte could be a scum-buddy from posts #12 and #197 (classic RVS joke-voting).
- I think Ambiti0nZ is cleared from posts #197 and #366?
- Not sure about babark from post #142 - clearing or distancing?
- I'd clear RWarehall on the fact that bucktoothgamer voted him with that meh reason and was sitting on him pretty till the end, except that we didn't really have the votes during the last few hours of EoD1 to lunch RWarehall as Ambiti0nZ never returned after placing his vote on bucktoothgamer, and Catte, LordCephy (now Dessimu) and detective_razza never voted although they all showed up at one point.
- ZFR should be clear from previous posts anyway, but it's typical for scum to side with one townie in a t/t conflict.
- As for me, I should be cleared for the rest of town since, on top of the shade in #407, I not only made the case against him but rallied for his lunch till the very end when I'd have no reason to do so as his scum-buddy on D1 with a good number of other players being up for lunch.

If this holds, do we think there's a busser on his wagon?
- If yes, it should be one of JoeSapphire, dedoporno and RWarehall.
- If not, then there're two among babark, Catte, LordCephy (now Dessimu) and detective_razza.
Order of players for both cases is based on the post #2 roster.


Additionally, I did a little check, and if everything goes absolutely wrong for town, we'll be at LyLo on D5 if we sleep (NL) on D4, assuming two more mafia in play. In this scenario, we can afford only two mislynches, ergo the PoE (Process of Elimination) can be only as large as four players. So, we need every single townie to do their absolute best to be obvious villagers (alternative term for townies) to get themselves out of the PoE, work with each other so that we can box the scum in (the PoE), and deny them the mislynches they need to win. Again, this is like the worst case scenario, I think, however, that it's better to work with it in mind, and everything else will be a bonus.

Thoughts/counterarguments on any of it all?

I'm off to prepare and have dinner, but will hopefully be back later.

Oh shit. Sorry to see you go Cephy, I hope you're up for a game in the future. Hey again Dessimu!

Now, to react to some posts from yesterDay.

I'm sorry, I screwed up. I thought I'd get a chance to post at work but I was busier than expected (this is normally a quiet time of year but I was asked to cover for someone who was off sick). I got home and immediately went online and found the day was already over, it was around 17:45 UTC+1. I know, I should have voted before going to bed. I thought I'd be able to post from work and I wanted to go to bed.

At no point between my last D1 post and the EoD1 did I use the forum in any way. I have a feeling why you might think this but I'd rather hear your reasons first.

Apart from the fact this is a policy lynch, it's also an obvious fake claim. Anyone notice the difference between this claim and their own role PM?

There are two types of mods. Those who use the catte buffer zone, and those who'll learn to use the catte buffer zone.

At least dedo's post was amusingly ironic.

I get to use my Sun headline again.

This has got to be the first time we got a scum on D1 without a major blunder on their side.

bucktooth, gg.

----

I got to go at the moment. Will catch up later.

And that, gentlemen, is why you do not skip lunch.

Great work HypersomniacLive for catching Bucktooth. The pelt can only be yours I think.


I think I get what you're getting at with this but I think also it might be a dangerous discussion to enter so we probs shouldn't get into it.

I agree, which is why I alluded to it rather than stating outright.

Well you also asked, which may encourage people to answer, which I want to discourage people from doing.

Don't answer catte's question y'all.

Hey, guys! Happy to join in. A little about my situation and what to expect... Pretty much every day I am working at work, at home, or both. Mostly on the phone, so often I may post with @ instead of direct replies. I actually need to run through all D1 to draw better opinions of my own about everyone. Aaaand, yeah. Little by little, one step at a time. In general, I thought D1 was bonkers. But in the end, when Buck flipped mafia, I actually cheered :D Great catch! Copier is a very cool role :-O It would have been interesting to see it in action, mafia got lucky. All I can draw from the flip, is that we have a bunch of other roles. Duuh.

@all: are there any super serious things I should be aware of from D1?

Right now, I am curious if RWarehall is town of mafia, because Bucktooth (mafia) voted him. Given the amount of players, wagons and non-voters, and it being D1, I am more inclined to search for remaining mafia outside of Bucktooth's wagon.

Oh, and feel free to judge LordCephy for what he said and how he acted. Note, that I can not fully explain his line of thinking, only from perspective of character that I am now. Other than that, judge me more than him.

And I saw D1 some players are new this game. Well, I think from D2 no more protections. Everyone can be voted equally.

Guess, based on these players being outside Buck's wagon and nothing else: remaining scum are Detective_Razza and Babark.

I asked if anyone noticed the difference, not if someone could say what the difference is. But you're right that someone might be over-eager.

By all means answer the question I asked y'all, just please don't answer the question I didn't ask.

Welcome to the Catte Buffer Zone.

I still think this is a dangerous discussion to enter.



I just lost the post I was writing in re. HypersomniacLive but my points were:

Ambiti0nZ does look good based on bucktooth's treatment.

I'd been thinking RW's vote on bucktooth didn't necessarily look good but hadn't thought about bucktooth's vote on RW, which maybe does look good for RW considering the timing.

It's possible there's no bussers on the wagon, because seeing as scum doesn't know when the day is going to end and whether there's any townies around they might be tempted to just pretend to be busy and hope the wagon doesn't finish, and that people lose interest in bucktooth toMorrow. I agree that me and dedo's votes look the worst, although I quite like dedo's "I don't know what's going on, what are we doing" vibe at the end of the day there.

There is no discussion, just a prompt to get townies to think. The only real answers to the question are yes and no and the question itself was more or less rhetorical.

You think what happened at EoD1 was due to luck?

BTW, since almost half your D1 posts revolve around your suspicion of me, including your very last post, I still need you to provide what I asked for in my post #346.



Are you saying you didn't catch up with the thread during the Night?! Shame on you!!


Yes, your slot was hunting down FrostburnPhoenix all of D1, and wanted them dead, dead, dead!! Well, they're dead, are you happy now?!



Look, I was agonising over getting that wagon to go over. I had 3 tabs open from the moment I came on at EoD1 - one was on the latest page as the thread progressed to stay on top of things, one was on Lifthrasil's last post at the time (#380) to know when he'd come on (also allowed me to check if Ambiti0nZ would come on), and one was on page 8 where the first three posts are detective_razza, you and JoeSapphire, and a bit further down there's one from LordCephy; everyone else was on. I kept refreshing all three tabs crazy frequently, and I saw your light go on. And when I saw it go off again without you having said anything, I made the comment you quoted.

You can tell me whatever you want, but I know what my eyes saw; I was wearing my reading glasses.



Nope, you're not allowed out of the PoE.


Talk to me about this.


[emphasis added]

I can see the first part, but I don't buy the part I highlighted. Do you have anyone(s) in particular in mind among the absent people?


I've got thoughts on this. Will have to wait till tomorrow, along with a few questions/comments on posts from D1 as I'm too tired to get into all it right now.

Night all.

I kinda do, honestly. I've been through d1 stuff, and I don't see anything bucktooth did that was particularly suspicious (any more than anyone else). Glad it happened, so thanks, yeah, but still.

Also, just to clarify to everyone, I think I live on the opposite side of the world to most of you (and it happens to be late late late at night right now, and I should be asleep, I have work in a few hours). So every day I wake up and when I finally get a chance to check the forums, there are multiple pages full of text to comb through. I can casually go through new posts on my phone during my work day, but I don't usually get a chance to deep dive into anything until I get home from work for the night (and my family obligations permit it).

You almost certainly did see that. But as I've said in previous games (in fact I have a feeling it was you who brought it up before) the online light is virtually meaningless. I keep a GOG forum tab permanently open in every browser I use - that includes my computer at work and my phone. If the browser happens to refresh that tab then I will show as online for a while. I've never tested how long it lasts but I imagine it's on a timer and shows a person as being online for X minutes after a page load.

I'm guessing from your writing you were expecting me to deny you saw the online light. What you saw was me open a browser, something I do for admin at work all the time.

I kept refreshing and then I didn't... Sorry about that!


@Cephy, I hope things get better soon and you had enough fun to join again next time.


What's your logic on that?


Why would people lose suddenly interest if a wagon fails before deadline?

Thanks!


As for what I think - in my opinion if there are 2 scum left 1 or 0 were on buck's wagon. If it's just 1 then they probably voted buck.

I'd say there is at least 1 scum among Babark, Catte, Joe, razza, Dessimu, RW.

I thought HSL was Town earlier and I'm pretty much convinced at this point. Town-core.
My thoughts on ZFR haven't really changed, I still think he's Town.
Same for AZ and for him things look even better based on buck's posts about him.
Out of the list above the trickiest one I think is RW. I think he only makes sense as scum if he has some special role and has decided he's just more valuable than the goon who got accused with solid arguments and people started jumping from him [RW] to his goon buddy. Otherwise it seems a bit cutthroat-y. RW did post some pretty good things near the end of the Day which felt like they came from a Townie mindset so I'm more included to leave him out of the immediate scummy shortlist.


By the way I noticed something funny while going back to check bucktooth's interactions:

Seems like he basically hinted at his role here.

Oh c'mon now Joe...you can do better than that...

I was the first person to support the idea of bucktoothgamer after HSL suggested it. Although I did not change my vote at the time. In fact, I was the only player to comment on it AT ALL! No one else bothered although Ambiti0nZ did switch his vote without explanation.

And tell me exactly how my vote "doesn't look good"? Before ZFR and I crossposted, that wagon was moving. Maybe you can contrive a theory that I was trying to avoid my lynch, but then why shift it to a scum buddy? If you are caught, a good scum eats it so as not to expose two players.

Let's compare it to your actions...lynch anybody regardless of reason...kill kill kill...at least some of us were trying to find a reasonable choice that looked scummy.

In fact, if anyone was scum on that wagon and trapped, it's likely you, forced to vote because of your stated "kill anyone" philosophy. Possibly Ambiti0nZ who wasn't around to remove his vote, yet that doesn't explain why he would place that vote so late. It would be a great risk to place a vote on a scum buddy possibly getting a wagon rolling just to provide future cover for oneself.

Besides, as I pointed out as we were looking like a no-lynch, the only way we could possibly get the 7 votes we need to actually lynch a true scum takes 7 of the likely 9 Townies to be available and agree. Well we had 8 people online/voting/available and one was Buck. So my base assumption is that the other 2 scum are in the not-voting/off-voting contingent.

While I think your push is curious, there are 4 better candidates for lynch than you Joe...off chance for Ambiti0nZ, but he has fallen to just the 6th prettiest princess which is solid Town territory 9 players.