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General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 11, 2014
Hey, GOGgers,

We're not perfect, we're exploring new frontiers, and we make mistakes. We thought DRM-Free was so important that you'd prefer we bring you more DRM-Free games and Fair Price was less critical and that it could be sacrificed in some cases. The last two week's worth of comments in our forums (nearly 10k!), show that's not the case. We didn’t listen and we let you down. We shouldn't sacrifice one of our core values in an attempt to advance another. We feel bad about that, and we're sorry. Us being sorry is not of much use to you, so let’s talk about how we will fix it.

One: DRM-free forever. Abandoning fixed regional pricing means it will probably take longer to get some games, but you've made it clear that sacrificing fair pricing for more DRM-free games isn't acceptable.

Two: We will adamantly continue to fight for games with flat worldwide pricing. If that fails and we are required to have regional prices, we will make up the difference for you out of our own pockets. For now it will be with $5.99 and $9.99 game codes. In a couple of months, once we have such functionality implemented, we will give you store credit instead, which then you will be able to use towards any purchase and cover the price of it in full or partially. Effectively gamers from all around the world will be able to benefit from the US prices.

This will apply to every single game where we do not have flat pricing, such as Age of Wonders 3 (full details here), Divinity: Original Sin, and The Witcher 3. If you remember the Fair Price Package for The Witcher 2, this will be exactly the same.

Three: We still intend to introduce the pricing in local currencies. Let us explain why we want to do it and how we want to make it fair for everyone. From the very beginning our intention was to make things easier for users whose credit cards/payment systems are not natively in USD. The advantages are simple because the price is more understandable and easier to relate to. There would be no exchange rates involved, no transaction fees, and no other hidden charges. However after reading your comments, we realized we have taken an important element away: the choice. In order to fix this, we'll offer the option of paying in the local currency or the equivalent in USD. This way, how you pay is always your choice.

Four: You are what matters, and we will be sure to involve you all more in what we're doing and why we're doing it. Let's start by meeting you at GDC - we’d like to invite you to meet us face-to-face Monday the 17th at GDC. Obviously, not all of you can come to San Francisco, so we want to invite all of you to an online event with us early in April to ask us whatever you would like. More details soon.

The bottom line is simple: there may be companies that won't work with us (although we will work hard to convince the most stubborn ones ;). Yes, it means we might miss out on some games, but at the same time GOG.com will remain true to its values and will keep on offering you the best of DRM-free gaming with Fair Prices.

Once again thank you for caring so much about GOG.com. We will work hard not to disappoint you again.

--Marcin "iWi" Iwinski & Guillaume "TheFrenchMonk" Rambourg
Posted March 15, 2014
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blotunga: Wow, Romania is in the top ten of slowest earned big mac :(. A big thanks to the EU making everything more expensive.
I thought Romania's economy jumped over Poland's...
Must've been 'innovation in business' index or something like that.
Post edited March 15, 2014 by Novotnus
Posted March 15, 2014
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blotunga: Wow, Romania is in the top ten of slowest earned big mac :(. A big thanks to the EU making everything more expensive.
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Novotnus: I thought Romania's economy jumped over Poland's...
Must've been 'innovation in business' index or something like that.
We had massive growth up to 2008, but it was quite a bubble. When the crisis hit, it went downhill fast, governments got desperate for loans and accepted all sorts of "reform packages" in exchange (if admittedly not like Greece's, but the macro situation was actually quite good so still disproportionate to what'd have been in any way needed with good governance), and just been playing the blame game (even more than usual, I mean) since.
Posted March 15, 2014
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MIK0: *snip*
I'll probably be your customer again starting with AOWIII.

About this I want to point out that while I think it's right that you give back the difference with your wallet (you wanted a game with regional price, not us), I think this is not fair or good for you because developer who sell games with regional prices doesn't take damage in the process. For them it's still the same while instead they should starve (sold unit wise) for providing a product sold in an unfair way. Otherwise what could change their mind? You pay for their greed, so they are not discouraged in keeping the situation the same and doing that in the future. The best option would have been to not add the game to your catalogue, using your relevance on the market as a way to show how much they would loose in the process and maybe wrote something viral on the web to expose the behavior and do them (or generally the ones that use the same kind of regional pricing) a bad publicity.
*snip*
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Cavalary: Yes, that would have been the best way. However, the 2nd best way now is for customers to send that message instead, not buying those games and telling the publishers exactly why (otherwise a non-sale doesn't in itself send a message), so your decision to become their customer again starting with AoW3 just about shoots that in the foot, precisely for the reason you listed. Could buy anything but that...
You made a good point and I admit I started thinking about that while writing the previous post. I was a bit torn about the matter. I clearly wish to play the game, otherwise the problem would be even there. However that's not the main reason. I want to show GOG is a viable mean of selling these games and encourage the fact that people like flat prices. It they don't sell here, it would be like it would've been if GOG didn't change their policy in the first place. No flat price no game sold. However there's a little change. For the end user it's like he has a flat price now because he actually pay the game the same amount of money all other people pay and for the difference he is forced to buy other GOG games (that it's the correct way to translate the fact that you have to pay more and get something back for "free", except you paid for it) . It's a change we should support, otherwise that change means nothing. If publisher could have been discouraged, I hope that GOG would have done that with the previous policy. Now GOG doesn't have the power to push that anymore because they choose a compromise. If they sell, well it's not because of drm-free, it's because it's cheaper (I mean from publisher point of view). If they don't sell, it would be hard to make it a regional pricing things while it would be only GOG related. The only way to give a signal would've been to not let the game in GOG catalogue, taking away the possibility of selling it to a vast community and marking a will. Even better if this decision would've happened after consulting the community adding their number to that decision. That a publisher would understand. That way GOG could've used it to talk about the regional pricing problem on the web and make it viral. Adding the game to the calogue, actually make that impossible or at least of a much lesser impact. The only way to do that again with the same impact would be for gog to really go back to their roots, changing their mind about adding the game in the catalogue, so removing it, refund preorders and then publicly state that this is what they and the community wants. That would really piss the publisher and make the issue really known to the web, but I suspect GOG cannot do that. That would be funny tho.
Posted March 15, 2014
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blotunga: Wow, Romania is in the top ten of slowest earned big mac :(. A big thanks to the EU making everything more expensive.
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Cavalary: Luxembourg: 11
Nicosia: 12
Dublin: 14
Vienna: 14
Frankfurt: 15
Munich: 15
Amsterdam: 16
Berlin: 16
Copenhagen: 16
Helsinki: 16
London: 16
Paris: 16
Lyon: 17
Stockholm: 17
Madrid: 18
Milan: 18
Barcelona: 19
Brussels: 20
Lisbon: 22
Rome: 23
Ljubljana: 25
Tallinn: 28
Athens: 30
Bratislava: 32
Riga: 33
Vilnius: 33
Prague: 34
Sofia: 36
Warsaw: 36
Budapest: 49
Bucharest: 57
(According to the quoted file, 2012 data.)

I'd lay more blame on our own, both the rulers and everyone else who puts them and allows them to stay there without fighting for something better, than on the EU...
This is another comparison in prices the so called Ipad Index that shows the price for an Ipad over the world. Basic price is in us dollars. All the prices are converted in to dollars for comparison.
Country Price (US Dollars)[11][12][13][14]
Argentina $1,094.11
Australia $506.66
Austria $674.96
Belgium $618.34
Brazil $791.40
Brunei $525.52
Canada (Montréal) $557.18
Canada (no tax) $484.61
Chile $602.13
China $602.52
Czech Republic $676.69
Denmark $725.32
Finland $695.25
France $688.49
Germany $618.34
Greece $715.54
Hong Kong $501.52
Hungary $679.64
India $512.61
Ireland $630.73
Italy $674.96
Japan $501.56
Luxembourg $641.50
Malaysia $473.77
Mexico $591.62
Netherlands $683.08
New Zealand $610.45
Norway $655.92
Philippines $556.42
Poland $704.51
Portugal $688.49
Russia $596.08
Singapore $525.98
Slovakia $674.96
Slovenia $674.96
South Africa $559.38
South Korea $576.20
Spain $674.96
Sweden $706.87
Switzerland $617.58
Taiwan $538.34
Thailand $530.72
Turkey $656.96
UAE $544.32
United Kingdom $638.81
US (California) $546.91
US (no tax) $499.00
Viêtnam $554.08
Posted March 15, 2014
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BKGaming: Quoting this for the truth. I would loved to know where those people that were boycotting were going to go? Steam? How is that different? DRM and no bonuses? That's better?

This whole thing is ridiculous... people spoke without thinking & GOG listened and now we will all see the outcome.
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OldFatGuy: I'm just curious, but would you continue to support GoG if they went ahead and got all these new games, and instituted the higher prices in the countries the publishers demanded them too, but to keep things fair they also raised prices an equal amount in all of the other countries too?
Yes I would... would I want that to happen or do I think regional prices is a good thing - no. However as I said before I care more about the games we get DRM free rather than the price they cost. At-least with that we all still get a choice as to if that price is worth it or not... I would decide that for me and I expect others would do the same.

GOG has instead made the decision for everyone even if we care about the games more than the price and even if that choice will mean we could get less games. Not saying they won't get good new games because there is still a regional pricing, however I don't think the games we get will be anything close to what we may have gotten if the cost difference wasn't coming out of GOG's pocket.
Post edited March 16, 2014 by BKGaming
Posted March 15, 2014
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OldFatGuy: I'm just curious, but would you continue to support GoG if they went ahead and got all these new games, and instituted the higher prices in the countries the publishers demanded them too, but to keep things fair they also raised prices an equal amount in all of the other countries too?
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BKGaming: Yes I would... would I want that to happen or do I think regional prices is a good thing - no. However as I said before I care more about the games we get DRM free rather than the price they cost. At-least with that we all still get a choice as to if that price is worth it or not... I would decide that for me and I aspect others would do the same.

GOG has instead made the decision for everyone even if we care about the games more than the price and even if that choice will mean we could get less games. Not saying they won't get good new games because there is still a regional pricing, however I don't think the games we get will be anything close to what we may have gotten if the cost difference wasn't coming out of GOG's pocket.
Thank you very much. I very very much respect your take on this. Best wishes.
Posted March 15, 2014
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OldFatGuy: I'm just curious, but would you continue to support GoG if they went ahead and got all these new games, and instituted the higher prices in the countries the publishers demanded them too, but to keep things fair they also raised prices an equal amount in all of the other countries too?
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BKGaming: Yes I would... would I want that to happen or do I think regional prices is a good thing - no. However as I said before I care more about the games we get DRM free rather than the price they cost. At-least with that we all still get a choice as to if that price is worth it or not... I would decide that for me and I aspect others would do the same.

GOG has instead made the decision for everyone even if we care about the games more than the price and even if that choice will mean we could get less games. Not saying they won't get good new games because there is still a regional pricing, however I don't think the games we get will be anything close to what we may have gotten if the cost difference wasn't coming out of GOG's pocket.
Your reasoning still would work if instead of changing prices they would have added drm games. Or maybe combining both. They could have added a lot of games. And I think it's not worth it, we have other stores for that.
GOG principles is what allowed them to be here today instead of disappearing years ago. And if a step back hasn't been made about recent decisions they probably would have disappear soon because of the distrust they generated. Gladly the did step back.

About people who buy these games on steam because they don't like regional price on GOG, I don't think it's totally hypocrite. As I said before do you trust more an enemy or a fake friend? An upfront criminal or a fake honest. That's the difference.
Post edited March 15, 2014 by MIK0
Posted March 15, 2014
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I think GoG isnt getting enough appreciation for this move, that showed us how much they care about what we think! That they ARE different and not a little. GoG is the best company I know. And you guys are giving them just 1200 posts?
Cmon, show them some love for this!!!

Thank You GoG!
Thank You GoG!
Thank You GoG!
Thank You GoG!
Thank You GoG!
Thank You GoG!
Posted March 15, 2014
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I'd like to summarize why I'm still very happy with GOG's decision to give up regional pricing, I whined at the news when the change was announced, now I feel compelled to cheer at the change being cancelled.

1) Ethics-based advertising. GOG used that, boasting that they had "one-world fair price" as one of their core values. If you go and change that like it's nothing, I'm going to feel like one of the ends of my gastrointestinal tract has been toyed with, and I think I can't be blamed for that. And I think that I can't be blamed if I suspect that someone who's willing to give up one of his core principles, will be willing to give up others in the future.

2) New games, old games. They said they were giving up flat pricing to get new, DRM-free games. I was okay with that, to a degree: you don't want the new game, you don't buy it, or at least you wait a couple of years for it to attain "classic" status and then buy it flat-priced. But they also planned to mess up the classics catalog with "fair regional pricing" ('re you kidding me?). That just made no sense. Now, after all the negative feedback, GOG is offering us customers something that is so neat I can't believe it. It was suggested by some user(s?), I think, but choosing to implement it is akin to a heroic deed. They say they are going to give us CHOICE. Want to pay in your home currency with clearer prices and no conversion rates? You are welcome! Want to pay in USD and handle the matter yourself? Suit yourself. Just CHOOSE! That is plain great, and if they can pull it off (I think it's not a trivial feature to implement, I've experienced popular online stores drowning in dung for trying to implement much simpler features) I'll be very, very happy.

Note: I'm a lazy sloth, so I didn't follow the whole thread carefully. However, I got the impression that many people from countries who wouldn't be harmed by regional pricing complained about the cancelling of the new pricing policy. I won't blame them, but I think that many of them (I think someone did) should have remarked that the new pricing scheme wasn't affecting them, for the sake of intellectual honesty. Otherwise, some of the complaints could sound like "Those euro loosers don't want to pat pay more than me and for that I'm going to loose the chance to buy multiple-A's titles on GOG at release date". I'm sure that wasn't what those posters meant, but someone could read them like that.

In the end, in the last few days I bought more GOG games than I could afford, or just play in the near future, just to show my gratitude.

Thank you, GOG.
Posted March 15, 2014
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N3xtGeN: I think GoG isnt getting enough appreciation for this move, that showed us how much they care about what we think! That they ARE different and not a little. GoG is the best company I know. And you guys are giving them just 1200 posts?
Cmon, show them some love for this!!!

Thank You GoG!
Thank You GoG!
...
You mean like this? ;)
Attachments:
gog-loves-you.jpg (152 Kb)
Posted March 15, 2014
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theMole4: I'd like to summarize why I'm still very happy with GOG's decision to give up regional pricing
GOG does not give up regional pricing, vendors will still charge regional prices. Even worse GOG now forces all of their customers to support vendors with regional prices. You have no choice, you (indirectly) have to pay for locally priced games now, even when you otherwise would have boycotted them completely. What's that for a win?
Posted March 15, 2014
Yay! To celebrate my approval of this decision:
(1) I've shared this post to a few hundred people on Facebook. Free advertising!
(2) My next game purchase is going to be from GOG.
(3) I'm making myself some lunch.

(The third one doesn't help GOG, but yay, lunch.)
Posted March 16, 2014
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theMole4: I'd like to summarize why I'm still very happy with GOG's decision to give up regional pricing
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eiii: GOG does not give up regional pricing, vendors will still charge regional prices. Even worse GOG now forces all of their customers to support vendors with regional prices. You have no choice, you (indirectly) have to pay for locally priced games now, even when you otherwise would have boycotted them completely. What's that for a win?
???

I'm sorry, but I'm not sure if I get it. First things first, about the "classics" catalog, they say I can choose between regional pricing and flat USD price, and that's what's important to me, that's what GOG was in the first place. About newer titles... why do you say that I have no choice, that I have to - indirectly - pay for locally priced games? You mean that I have to get games that don't meet GOG's widely advertised ethics elsewhere? That would be my choice. Publishers and developers would have to make their own choice as well: keep regional pricing, or take advantage of an influential retailer such as GOG, with a wide and loyal customer base.

The important thing is: GOG is still GOG. GOG itself told us what GOG was, and if it changed in such a thoughtless and careless manner as it was going to change, it would have been a dirty cheat for all of us customers. A case of false advertising.

At least, that's the way I see it.
Post edited March 16, 2014 by theMole4
Posted March 16, 2014
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MIK0: Your reasoning still would work if instead of changing prices they would have added drm games. Or maybe combining both. They could have added a lot of games. And I think it's not worth it, we have other stores for that.
GOG principles is what allowed them to be here today instead of disappearing years ago. And if a step back hasn't been made about recent decisions they probably would have disappear soon because of the distrust they generated. Gladly the did step back.

About people who buy these games on steam because they don't like regional price on GOG, I don't think it's totally hypocrite. As I said before do you trust more an enemy or a fake friend? An upfront criminal or a fake honest. That's the difference.
No it doesn't really... GOG major principle and the only one they can't change without major consumer backlash is DRM free. That is literally what defines them... not regional pricing.

You can argue that all you want... but at the end of the day, GOG isn't know for it's pricing model... there known for having no DRM.

And I know I have said this to death, but you still get choices with regional pricing... Game A may be $5 more in UK than US but game B may be $10 more in the UK than the US with regional pricing. You decide what is worth it and what is reasonable. With DRM there is very little choice, you take it or you leave it... which is a decision made for all of us and effects all of us the same.
Posted March 16, 2014
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BKGaming: No it doesn't really... GOG major principle and the only one they can't change without major consumer backlash is DRM free. That is literally what defines them... not regional pricing.

You can argue that all you want... but at the end of the day, GOG isn't know for it's pricing model... there known for having no DRM.
It's GOG who have been saying and underlining that they were:

1. DRM-free games
2. One-world flat pricing

They said it was important - fundamental. They couldn't hope to take back their own word without people feeling cheated.
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGetting back to our roots(1418 posts)(1418 posts)
(1418 posts)