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Cavalary: And I would agree with you, but in this case it IS version parity, as far as Redshift is concerned. Their game and their expansion is on GOG, what another dev does is outside the scope of the agreement between them and GOG. And I'd ask those who want all 3rd party content made by devs with a firm stance against the only thing GOG still stands for more than they want to, well, still stand for that one thing, why do they care to obtain said content here?
I wasn't talking about this game in particular but in general, as this is still a big issue. Strictly talking about this game, it falls more on a grey area, but regarding your last question, it's simply due to people genuinely want to buy the game and be done with it. While I do understand your reasoning, think of it more as "you can still appreciate any piece of art despite not sharing the sentiment with its creator" sort of thing.


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phaolo: Yeah, 1000+ votes by now and this still happens :\
No more outdated or abandoned games.
Unfortunately I doubt this will stop from happening :/ I'm still baffled about nuclear throne still being sold here, despite not receiving ONE SINGLE UPDATE since its release, while the steam version got a bunch of updates and new content back in the day...
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Kyousuke.: Unfortunately I doubt this will stop from happening :/ I'm still baffled about nuclear throne still being sold here, despite not receiving ONE SINGLE UPDATE since its release, while the steam version got a bunch of updates and new content back in the day...
Oh, it was updated in the meantime. Only took EGS asking for a non-Steam build. ;)
Only still mising some advertised features, the soundtrack, and a Linux version.
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phaolo: Yeah, 1000+ votes by now and this still happens :\
No more outdated or abandoned games.
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timppu: The wishlist item is about as naive and simplistic as
"No more wars, ever, anywhere! Only peace! I mean, how hard can it be? Just don't do war, mmmmkay?"
Everything seems so simple...
Dude.. they provided a tool for feedback and we're using it.
Should we just stay silent because feature wishlists are "naive"?
And you can't expect users to suggest practical details to a business..
Post edited March 02, 2020 by phaolo
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phaolo: Dude.. they provided a tool for feedback and we're using it.
Should we just stay silent because feature wishlists are "naive"?
And you can't expect users to suggest practical details to a business..
The intention is ok (just like world peace is I guess), but people have hard time even agreeing what they should be agreeing about.

Some e.g. say that GOG should not sell any games that are missing any feature from a Steam version, be it some DLC, update (even a non-critical one), multiplayer, achievements, a separate soundtrack... but e.g. I am firmly against that. It goes case by case, usually I don't e.g. care at all if the GOG version is missing achievements or multiplayer or some non-critical update. Or if some update appears a week or month later to the GOG version, at least if it is not a game-breaking bug.

Having said that, I certainly am not against it that GOG tries to keep the GOG versions up-to-date, and is open about what the GOG version has and doesn't have so that the buyers know what they are buying. Somehow, I think GOG already knows that, and they also want GOG versions not to be "inferior versions", blocking people from buying them. It is common sense, just like world peace (unless Hitler 2.0 or Stalin 3.0 tries to conquer the world of course, in which case I retract my words and want everyone to attack now with nuclear weapons and whatnot, just to stop them).

In the most severe cases, GOG does and has removed a game from the store if the developer seems to have lost interest trying to update and support the GOG version at all.
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timppu: The intention is ok (just like world peace is I guess), but people have hard time even agreeing what they should be agreeing about. [..]
Somehow, I think GOG already knows that, and they also want GOG versions not to be "inferior versions", blocking people from buying them. It is common sense, just like world peace [..]
Many things still happen despite common sense.
It's correct to remind those who decide that something is wrong.

And it's normal for many people to have different opinions, not sure what's your point there..

If Gog management knows\cares about the missing updates problem, then they should do more to avoid it.
IMO they're too scared to lose titles and so allow various unacceptable situations.
And this only harms Gog, because it causes users to mistrust the store and to avoid\abandon it altogether.
Post edited March 02, 2020 by phaolo
Everything where steamworks is a must have like stellaris , pain to get the mod for the latest patch.
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timppu: The intention is ok (just like world peace is I guess), but people have hard time even agreeing what they should be agreeing about. [..]
Somehow, I think GOG already knows that, and they also want GOG versions not to be "inferior versions", blocking people from buying them. It is common sense, just like world peace [..]
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phaolo: Many things still happen despite common sense.
It's correct to remind those who decide that something is wrong.

And it's normal for many people to have different opinions, not sure what's your point there..

If Gog management knows\cares about the missing updates problem, then they should do more to avoid it.
IMO they're too scared to lose titles and so allow various unacceptable situations.
And this only harms Gog, because it causes users to mistrust the store and to avoid\abandon it altogether.
Agree, I will think twice before buying gog version of a game which needs constant updates and mods. DRM free is nice but not if it costs uptodateness.
Post edited March 02, 2020 by Orkhepaj
high rated
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: Most PC gamers don't care about DRM, and they especially don't care about Steam DRM, which in turn leads to most devs not caring one iota about GOG.
True. But if they don't care about GOG they should SIMPLY STOP SELLING on GOG AT ALL. Yes, I mean it. If they don't plan to support their damn game they also should not ask to get money from GOG customers for their game as well. But those hypocrates are saying "It is good to get additional money from GOG - no need to update my game and have additional costs. Just let them rant and they will give up eventually and I have my money". And if I had to say something in it publishers/devs should get legally punished in such cases ... but that will probably never happen.
Post edited March 02, 2020 by MarkoH01
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: Most PC gamers don't care about DRM, and they especially don't care about Steam DRM, which in turn leads to most devs not caring one iota about GOG.
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MarkoH01: True. But if they don't care about GOG they should SIMPLY STOP SELLING on GOG AT LL. Yes, I mean it. If they don't plan to support their damn game they also should not ask to get money from GOG customers for their game as well. But those hypocrates are saying "It is good to get additional money from GOG - no need to update my game and have additional costs. Just let them rant and they will give up eventually and I have my money". And if I had to say something in it publishers/devs should get legally punished in such cases ... but that will probably never happen.
Yup, especially as those additional costs are negligible , how often do they have to make a new build and upload it to gog server? It should take minimal time and effort.
The best way to force them is to uphold their money until they update. Nope, it is not illegal as some think as the contract can have this in it easily.
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Kyousuke.: I'm honestly speachless, especially because when you are a dev, you HAVE a clear idea of what piracy is, how it works, and how to counter it with a better customer service than snake oil tactics.

Taken from steamworks toolkit page: "The Steam DRM wrapper by itself is not an anti-piracy solution. The Steam DRM wrapper protects against extremely casual piracy (i.e. copying all game files to another computer)", which NO SANE person would do, due to manifest and other files which may contain personal info about their steam account, if they don't know what to do with them.

To add insult to the injury, why should somebody bother to do so, when they can easily grab a torrent of x game... it's like these people know nothing about all of this, which I honestly still don't believe and I still think that all of this is just a big excuse because they can't be arsed to provide a GOG build.
Somebody obviously called him on that BS he quoted, as indicated by his latest posting. Except that it's just one phrase about him being aware of piracy out there blah blah, before quickly passing on to another subject. And if that wasn't bad enough, this really I think tops it all:

"Anybody who wants our expansions to work on GOG, can just buy them from Steam." Am sure that one's gonna go down well with 'anybody'.
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Grargar: Sounds like a plan. When in a corner, pick a random post of a random someone saying a random something and present it as a 100% irrefutable fact to double down on your position.
That plan of his I believe became a hole he dug for himself, especially since that as far as he's concerned, for of his base stuff for sale here, you want their expansions working for the GOG version? Get them from Steam!

If he wanted to antagonize Goggers, I don't think he could have done much better than this.
Post edited March 02, 2020 by Flyingfluffypiglet
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Flyingfluffypiglet: If he wanted to antagonize Goggers, I don't think he could have done much better than this.
Yep. He did great and congratulations. I am not even aware if there was any game from said dev I was interested in but I am sure as hell am sure that I will never buy any game from them now.
Zarista Games updated response
I don't feel comfortable collecting money on the internet. That's just me.

When you bought from us long ago, you bought from my partner Dr. Vlad who manages the Zarista Games website. He doesn't have time to do it anymore. He has a family and other time commitments. He handled payments for Zarista Games for a long time but now it's on my shoulders. I'm quite happy dealing with the Steam, iOS and Android payments because I don't have to collect them myself directly. I just have to handle the paperwork.

So that's where we are. I appreciate your support and love making the expansions but collecting money on the internet is not for me. My website is a very simple forum and not really set up to do that.

Anybody who wants our expansions to work on GOG, can just buy them from Steam. They're set up to collect money on the internet and they pay me routinely, for which I am very thankful because it helps me pay that humungous vet hospital bill down.
So it's no longer about DRM, but rather she's uncomfortable collecting money from GOG.
Post edited March 02, 2020 by zazak09
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zazak09: Zarista Games updated response

I don't feel comfortable collecting money on the internet. That's just me.

When you bought from us long ago, you bought from my partner Dr. Vlad who manages the Zarista Games website. He doesn't have time to do it anymore. He has a family and other time commitments. He handled payments for Zarista Games for a long time but now it's on my shoulders. I'm quite happy dealing with the Steam, iOS and Android payments because I don't have to collect them myself directly. I just have to handle the paperwork.

So that's where we are. I appreciate your support and love making the expansions but collecting money on the internet is not for me. My website is a very simple forum and not really set up to do that.

Anybody who wants our expansions to work on GOG, can just buy them from Steam. They're set up to collect money on the internet and they pay me routinely, for which I am very thankful because it helps me pay that humungous vet hospital bill down.
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zazak09: So it's no longer about DRM, but rather she's uncomfortable collecting money from GOG.
Like I said, I am probably not even a customer but those who are GOG customers are now probably also not interested anymore in SPENDING said money so maybe they shoudl ask for a refund instead? We don't want this poor guy to feel bad ;)

Also, telling customers about those vet bills he has to pay ...argh! Really? Poor dev.
Post edited March 02, 2020 by MarkoH01
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Flyingfluffypiglet: If he wanted to antagonize Goggers, I don't think he could have done much better than this.
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MarkoH01: Yep. He did great and congratulations. I am not even aware if there was any game from said dev I was interested in but I am sure as hell am sure that I will never buy any game from them now.
Likewise. Have a list of Devs/Publishers not to buy products from given some, shall we say crappy attitudes, when it comes to things like these.
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phaolo: If Gog management knows\cares about the missing updates problem, then they should do more to avoid it.
What that "more" is might be where we disagree. That was my point.
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phaolo: If Gog management knows\cares about the missing updates problem, then they should do more to avoid it.
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timppu: What that "more" is might be where we disagree. That was my point.
Well, in my feature request I suggested that version parity should be required by contract.
Did you expect that I drafted the contract too or something?
I'm not sure what kind of details you want from simple users..
We can only warn about problems (that Gog may or may not be aware of).
The attempt to suggest a solution is just an extra, but it's Gog's job in the end.
Post edited March 03, 2020 by phaolo