Alright. I think everyone checked in. If I omitted you then sorry. Quote my post and be like "yo, you bum, you forgot about moi!"

Working on a team comp right now. Trying to see where a common consensus or less conflict is. Most people think I should include myself, and I guess I now see the logic behind it. It makes sense gameplay wise, though it greatly messes around with the potential of the game. Alas, so far it's: me, myself, and I.

I will mull over who other might be good for the mission a while before I submit the team in an official format.

First - I humbly ask your head to hurt no more.

Now, my proposal is unconventional. It can only be applied for Mission 2, where for the moment there's the smallest team needed. It could be applied for Mission 3 as well, but only and only if Mission 2 is success.

I wanted to go a bit more in depth of my proposal, because I strongly believe it would be nay'd anyway, but I will leave this better explanation for after Mission 2 has passed. For the sake of not feeding spies information beforehand.

Actually, scratch that (#212).

@ Cristigale; about my proposal

Two things:
- If Mission 2 (M2) is success with whatever team, we should pick same team to ensure victory
- I think my proposed team would be nay'd by majority anyway

Now, what I had in mind prior to proposing "team of possible spies":
- My goal would be to either clarify that those/some of those suspected individuals are indeed spies. Otherwise - to clear them, so we could pick them again and win the game.
- I presume that any spy on M2's team would fail the mission. Main reason: if M2 is success, spies step one leg in their own grave.
- I presume that if multiple spies are picked on the team, not a single one of them would risk other mates to pass the mission. Meaning, they would all fail it. With luck, we could even get 3 fails in one go.

Now that I explained my would-have-been-plan, it is garbage. We should aim for a successful team, because picking it now is the key to winning the game.

Thanks. I forgot to mention early, congrats on the new job. Hope you are enjoying it.

In your scenario, if we managed to pick at least 2 scum, I could see that being quite useful. If we got none, a win as well. If we only selected a single scum, that could do us more harm than good.

Sorry to hear Cristi. Hope you manage to stick around. This should be providing you a very different feel to regular Mafia at least :)

He'll have to up his game then. I can imagine how hard that is for him to admit - even/especially to himself :P
Hej, maybe that's why he broke my heart? If so I still have a chance! Maybe he'll realize true Resistance buddies challenge and grow each other. Ass kisser I am not, even if his tush is shapely.

Agreed - mostly.
It's not like I'm sure Hijack is spy. And I see his play as a scum slip, not superstar at all. Hence why I'm provocating him almost every chance I get. Going as low as sexual innuendo even...
But the votes are what matter, and I confess I really want to whack him over the head for slowing us down this much. You won't get unforced errors unless you up the tempo/pressure. If he is Resistance he is playing badly - in the grand scheme of things his captaincy counts for nothing and the guesses people are giving him are mostly worthless (mine too!). But if he is spy, stalling while he and his buddies process the implications and feel the ground ahead makes a lot of sense. This might be my confirmation bias...

And I read this as a scum tell in Hijack's case, whereas I don't (as much) for Drealmer who was making similar suggestions. But you know him better than me. So noted.

1 there is no actual upside that I see, since no one should have trusted whatever Lift proposed, and even if Lift was basing such choice on a correct read that most of us (well, of you...) would be trusting, the coordination issues are nearly suicidal
2 is the one I'm going with as working theory, but again, it's only a theory, and I want to see more votes, heck, after Hijack's "proposal proposal" (like anytime now hopefully?) there are still two more before the team has to go to the mission.

PS: I don't like the rule change Leonard made versus tabletop of making the fifth team default approve. Getting the mission result is less information than getting votes from all players on a specific team composition. But it's an interesting change to what I'm used, so I'm adapting... or rather I would be, if we were anywhere near the point I need to look at that. In fact, if Hijack and your team choice get shot down (which I hope, regardless of who you pick - because that's my playstyle) I'll be the one having to consider that twist and that if my team does not get accepted Dess gets carte blanche to do whatever the heck he feels like. A bridge I'll cross when / if we get to it as there would be at least 18 more data points to consider.

There. The new Volume in Brasas Proust's masterwork "Waiting for BB Hijack, or La Reserche des Votes Perdues"


[Hits refresh]

Thanks Hijack. Faster please! :)

Ok, so I've been thinking about this quite a bit harder than usual. Like, I had to pause my activity and think about this. This rarely happens in Mafia where mechanics sometimes blow our minds when lore told by yogy doesn't. Kinda miss him. How is he doing in that championship? I'm not really following it.

Anyway, back to the matter at hand. So, I came to the obvious realization that you guys have very polarizing views so far. There is very little consensus in what the team should be. The most obvious thing, that I later realized it is in fact the most efficient too, is to add myself to the roster. This, however, begs the questions why Lift received some mild flak on the first mission proposal, and how did agent end up so distrusted. Kind of counter productive. Alas, that's one pick for the team.

So far I haven't really figured out what everyone's problem with cristi on my team roster is. I find her the most genuine resistance so far. No real arguments have been made against her and no voting patterns seem to indicate she is a spy. She stays on the original proposed roster.

JMich... funny story. It was a coin toss between him and Lift. Had pretty good reads about both, slightly better in JMich's favor, and the first mission succeeded, so I thought it was a no brainer. Alas, that sparked some controversy. I wonder how everything would have turned out had I listed Lift. He tends to be more aggressive in his defenses, so that would have been interesting to watch. Alas, since JMich apparently is mistrusted by quite a few, I decided to replace him with Lift. Lift, like JMich, has been resistance looking so far, and the first mission succeeded with him on it. Of course, many of you will argue what if he is resistance and did that to gain cred? Well, bad luck then. You don't like JMich, but I don't trust most of you. Heck, most of you don't trust most of you, so I will go with whom the odds of succeeding a mission look best. Lift is on the roster.

Last spot. Well, this is funny. I needed some hard apple cider and German beer. The amount of mistrust really gave me headaches. What is a good pick? Who do I think acts resistance? Who do people think acts resistance? Went over the entire list. Removed drealmer at his request because many showed mistrust towards him. I don't really get why, but whatever. I'm not going to include Brasas because I don't trust him. His arguments and messing around have caused me to think maybe he is a spy. And shit, maybe he is. I did the math. Looked at the original team and at my initial proposal. 6 players in total, with one of them repeating. Could I have managed to choose in such a fashion that the 3 people left out on both missions were the spies? Did I manage to pull that shit off? That would be Brasas, agent, and Dessimu. Agent seems mistrusting of Brasas, but that could be WIFOM. He does seem to acclaim Brasas quite a bit when he makes arguments. Dessimu, however, had different kind of interactions with them. WIFOM, again. Who knows? An interesting fact to keep in mind. Having that one repeating player from the original team might have been all that the spies needed for an argument. Bottom line: Brasas is off the table.

Now, this is not to say that I do not have good reads on at least one of those remaining players that were never chosen. Agent is iffy. His interactions with Brasas are interesting so far, but nothing inherently malicious towards missions so far. Will keep an eye on him. This and the common consensus is that he is not trustworthy. Fairly solid reasons to keep him off the list.

Dessimu on the other hand has good rep. He has been engaging in discussion and willing to share ideas. Reads on him have been genuine so far. I have him lower than Lift, heck, probably lower than drealmer, but higher than agent. A worthy candidate to keep in mind.

Ixam. Man, that's iffy. I originally had him quite a bit up, but some conflicting posts and votes have given me pause. I don't see him as a spy, or maybe not yet, but I am weary of placing trust in him on a mission. He has given good feedback so far though, in spite of being a bit sparse. Still no argument of why cristi is not that great of a pick, but that may be just his gut feeling. I don't know. I am keeping him in mind for the mission.

This should be it. This is everyone. Given my reads, my choice is between Ixam and Dessimu. A few people have expressed distrust of Ixam, quite a few have expressed trust of Dessimu. I have ok reads on both, but more in favor of Dessimu. I have concluded that Dessimu should be the last pick for the team. If anything, I am also interested to check that theory of the last 3 players that weren't picked. Maybe I did stumble upon gold and I had no idea. Who knows? Just a foot note worth keeping in mind.

Without further ado, let's make it official.

Mission 2, Team Proposal 2
Team Captain: HijacK
Members: HijacK, cristigale, Lifthrasil, Dessimu

I have some more thoughts to share, but I thought it would be better to see votes before sharing them.

Edit:

"many of you will argue what if he is resistance and did that to gain cred?"

Should in fact be:

many of you will argue what if he is a spy and did that to gain cred?

Perhaps I had a bit too much alcohol for tonight. Not a good combo with tiredness either.

Hey, hey, hey! I got a new job as well! Pretty good one actually. After a couple of phone interviews they called me in for a third in person. Went there guns blazing, doors blasting. Shocked them with my skillz and good looks. Got the job half way through the interview. They used the remaining time to get my info.

1 Congrast on the job :)

2 Vote sent

3 Now you're talking...

Unfortunately "Because I'm a noob" will be hard to disprove, hence I didn't even push on that.

Noted. Kindly provide some links / post numbers for where "everyone" did this?

Put yourself in my shoes. At the risk of helping the 3 spies improve their game, I felt giving some guidance to the other 5 was more important. Let's see what happens from now on... at least one mission is in the bag however much luck that was.

Also, it was not the repeating player, it was the missing repeating player, ergo yourself. Otherwise the situation now would be functionally identical to your original proposal that really got my goat. You are the lynchpin dude. :)

You mean if the first mission was 1 spy and 2 resistance, the spy would fail the mission? Or do you say that the single spy would vote no for the team proposed?
I don't recall saying anything about a single spy rejecting the proposal, but a failed first mission would bench all three players. So a spy could take that hit, if it meant benching two resistances, since that would leave 4 resistance and 2 spies as possible candidates for the next missions.
Then again, I've no idea how to play this game ;)

Vote sent btw.

And thank you! Job is good, I meet various people, coffee is delicious. Got my first paycheck a few weeks back, next one should be coming on Monday or the day after that.

Congratulations on not blasting interviewers themselves in that crazy entrance.

Sounds like a promise of something spectacular. Provoking pictures?

Oh, and "whatever the heck he feels like"

In short, I can only say this - I trust this team enough to approve it. I vote yes.

Why:
- I am resistance, so that leaves three wild cards from my personal perspective.
- Looking at the facts and none of the assumptions, should have the M1 failed, HijacK would be off the table, Lifthrasil would be off the table. Now they are as much resistance as they could be spies - there is simply no telling. Fact is - Mission 1 with these players succeeded.
- I trust cristigale and Lifthrasil more than other players (besides myself). I have also mentioned it #174.
- I look at HijacK with a pinch of a doubt mainly only because Brasas made a case against him. However, it doesn't mean Brasas is right, nor does it mean he is wrong. T'is an assumption that Brasas himself understands well - absolutely worth noting, but should not be followed blindly. Also, HijacK achieved what we did not have while picking previous two teams - cooperation between players by giving proposals. This should come in handy catching spies later on.

Glad you like it and get it. For those who don't it's Ohms law and I actually got it from a meme ripping off Spider man.
I could make a joke about thermodynamics, but the amount of enthusiasm in the forum would only be equal to the amount of enthusiasm I put into the forum.

I still can't get a solid read on cristi, so there's a risk. But the other three are players I would have chosen too. Both HijacK and Dessimu seem very resistancy to me. So with some luck we actually might have an all-resistance team here, which would take as one step closer to victory. Therefore, I am willing to risk it, in spite of cristi being kind of unreadable to me, and I vote yes.

@ JMich and Dess

This talk of benching players... of how had M1 failed Lift or Hijack would be off the table...

Let's run the numbers ok?

3 go out, one sabotages.
Most likely of the remaining 6, 4 are loyal and 2 are spies.
2:1 is the exact same suspicion ratio... for the ones that went and the ones that didn't...

So what's all this talk of benching and practically blacklisting folks based on?
You won't be sure, you can't be sure like that.


@ Dess and Lift
You're all so trusting :(

What kind of signal are you giving the spies by announcing a yes vote like this?

I predict Mr. TV dude won't get his materials.

Vote sent.

Pick three players at random. What is the chance you pick at least one spy? 1 in 3.
Pick three players that have failed a mission. What is the chance you pick at least one spy? 100%

Additional point. Pick 4 out of 9 players, with 3 being spies. What is the chance of the 4 having at least one spy? About 88%
Now pick 4 players out of 6, with 2 being spies. What is the chance of the 4 having at least on spy? About 95%

So even though the ratio of spy to resistance remains the same, there are benefits to benching players for both teams. Only question is if resistance can properly identify the spies before it's too late.