I have a feeling we've been played today. Lift and I are suspected of this thing called "soft-claiming" when in fact I fail to see how we soft-claimed. It is actually pretty clear from the way I posted (and how I see Lift's posts on the matter) that we chose...wait for it...simply not to claim. Is claiming vanilla an alien concept? Or does claiming only work with power roles? So far, proponents of this "Pooka and Lift softclaimed" idea seem to involve blotunga but most definitely includes RFG who backpedaled on the idea when told there was no such softclaim. If not blotunga, then RFG should be under scrutiny.

Thanks to Lift, I actually know why Agent's opinion of myself worried me. I'm interested in his flip because of it, but I want to give him some slack given his activity. So, agentcarr16, why shouldn't I vote you?

Claiming is anything related to sharing information that only you would know barring external factors.

For the record, in my opinion refusing to claim and soft-claiming in the face of a lynch is pretty much the same thing. Both might dissuade people of going through as they may fear a worse outcome. "What if he really is a Cop, like he claims?" vs "He doesn't say what he is to not give information away to the scum, what if he is a Cop or something else very important for us?".

We have been claiming pre-lynch pretty much always. Pooka has now set a precedent, for this game at least. Why should anyone claim if we allow one person not to? What would it mean if someone was to claim for the one claiming and the one who refused to claim before them? I'm not really a fan of that but maybe I'm who's being wrong here. As I said, I think I'm in the minority here anyway so yeah.


To be honest, I absolutely missed where Lift supposedly soft-claimed so I have no idea if that is a thing and what it means but I don't have anything to do with it unless necessary.


@RFG, you posted but didn't answer my question. Did you omit doing that by accident or on purpose?

Post 179, last paragraph.

Now to be fair about the whole precedent thing, if given a scenario where I am once again facing a lynch, and that time I'm sure I'll have to go, then I have no problems with claiming. I just want the scum to keep asking themselves "what the hell is Pooka hiding?" and the same goes for Lift. Also in my opinion, softclaiming is a different thing to no-claiming: you mention they both dissuade people from lynching, but they're also the difference between having the honor of the nightkill or staying alive tomorrow.

You know perfectly well that unless the PR is an immediate threat it doesn't necessarily draw the night kill, especially when it's with someone who is has been one step away from getting lynched already. Confusion of keeping that person alive can be so much more valuable in various cases. It depends on so many factors - who the scum are, in what situation they are currently, what the PR is and on whom, what's the situation for that person and so much more. My point is that a claim doesn't automatically mean you're getting NKed.

Also asking this question. PRE-POST EDIT: I see it has been answered

Not necessarily true, since I wasn't around at end of D1. Long story short, reread Pooka before posting on D2 and changed my mind about his alignment.

Going to have to ask you to rephrase that question. No idea what you're driving at.

Elaborate?

Look, if you're Town, you should be voting me. That's the point of being Town. But I'm Town as well. You're going after the wrong person.

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GameRager wagon had at least one scum on it when he was lynched. Reasonable assumption?

ZFR is Town, by flip. It follows that one of RWarehall, dedo, Pooka, Joe, and RFG is Scum.

I'm most sure of dedo being Town, so he's off the list. Joe vs Lift strikes me as Town v Town, so he's off the list for the moment.

RW, Pooka, and RFG are left. RW is almost as quiet as I am, so maybe he's a good lynch before he gets out of hand (pot calling kettle black, I know, I know). But I haven't picked up any scummy vibes, so let's leave him out.

That leaves Pooka or RFG as the scum on the wagon. I chose RFG as he has been less active, but I am also happy to vote Pooka, though I think he's a bit more likely to be Town.

Aaaeeeehhhmmmm...

How can you be so sure?

By the way, you have become a lot more active Today (which is nice). How come?

@agent: so you changed your mind about Pooka. That is not a very clear answer. What I would like to know is WHY you changed your mind. What made you read Pooka as town, in spite of his 'very bad ' post? And what was so very bad about that post? You haven't explained either.

Also, dedo already asked that, how can you be so sure of dedo's alignment? Why single him out as the one 'most likely to be town'?

I have been one vote away from being lynched before, and just then I had claimed my actual role (cop). Scum had me lying on the ground dead the next day, even with the potential of using me as a lightning rod remaining very viable, in fact I said several times during that game that if I live the next day it'd be fishy as heck, and either way I was a goner. I say most PRs are at least hurdles to scum (doctors, bodyguards) if not threats (cop, trackers/watcher), while the not so threatening ones (commuter, fruit vendor) aren't all that common and if you have one such role, smart scum would ignore you the same way they would a vanilla and move to another target.

Well, Lift did the elaboration better than I would have done; see above post. But basically, you just said out of the blue that I appear Town even with the very wrong things I have said. You said you have reread and found me Town; why? And what are my very wrong things?

That's precisely why I am asking you. I'm not interested in going after the wrong person, and unlike with GR, we have the luxury of free time Today to discern if you're really our man or not. Try convincing us you're not our man by answering Lift's questions, same for the one about dedo.

@RWarehall: in the two days since you last posted, what do you think of what's going on right now? That's around 20 posts (give or take) of content, certainly not too much if you're busy.

Sorry for the long downtime, so here we are, about the same way as before, with 2 less town.
- Lift - seems engaged, but could be playing a very good scum game (ie like HSL was a few games ago). Not out of the woods, but let's give him the benefit of doubt today.
- RFG - undecided
- Pooka - I wonder why in @376 puts me in the RFG bucket, I never mentioned anything about your presumed soft claiming. I did take Lift's as a vague hint, but ofc it could all be wifom
- Joe - no more joe/lift dynamic, I wonder why? Are you scumbuddies?
- RW - way to little to go around, was first on GRs wagon, but I almost did the same, but decided that there was little to gain from a GR lynch
- dedo - so far no AI reads, seems his normal game
- blotunga - LAMIST!!! (ofc)
- Carr - now an interesting twist with us all focusing on carr now, while ignoring most of d1... Ok, the Pooka contradiction is a bit worrisome, but people do change their minds sometimes. And town most likely more often than others. So unsure.

That's what, the how do we make him claim part? Well, you can't ever make someone claim against their will. They could simply refuse to claim no matter what, even if it got them lynched. But last game Blotunga was "forced" to out himself by the repeated insistence of SirPrimalForm, along with a few others. I guess I missed giving you an answer when I was responding to Lift.
So, if you think I am scum, there has to be something I've done that you find scummy. Just give me something to dispute. I can't really look at process of elimination and say "Nope, that person is actually scum. Therefore I am town." It also gives town something to analyze later on.

@Pooka, I don't get how backpedaling after your response is suspicious. If I were scum and wanted to put pressure on you, I could have easily done so.

Damn. That's a looong afternoon! Dedo and even agent have already pointed this out, but I'll add my two cents: you've fallen awfully quiet. Why? I would be quite interested in those things that piqued your interest! Please do share! You "want to do your part" after all.

And while you're at it: who is your top scum pick and why? What do you think of agent?

@Joe: same questions to you! You've fallen awfully quiet too!

Wow. Now you even accuse yourself of LAMIST! If even you notice that, then you must be scum indeed! ;-)

Well, let's see who's going to elaborate that for us.

Ah, wonderful, thank you blotunga.

So you see, I was talking about the softclaiming stuff that were directed towards Lift and I. You didn't focus on me and that is true, but you did say that Lift gave the hint of a power role and even went as far as to say that if you were scum, he would've been dead instead of ZFR. I'm just getting wary of that whole softclaim thing as I think it's a deliberate kind of misunderstanding.



I'm curious how you would have pressured me. That being said, your backpedaling does raise suspicion as you used the narrative of "Pooka soft claimed to avoid lynch" to make me look scummy (you even said softclaiming to avoid lynch is scummy). Come my response to all of this and suddenly it's all OK and just a misunderstanding. Call me paranoid, but something is odd about the turnaround there.

ah hello!

My top scum pick is mayyyyyybe RWarehall... Why? I keep coming back to the question 'who would nightkill ZFR?' and I think maybe RW is my top candidate for that position.

I'm intrigued by your Carr/Red proposition and it's worth prodding.

But first:

FAO Lifthrasil, Redfire, Blotunga, Carr, Pooka : Did you remember that ZFR was killed night one in the last game? Hypothetically, would you avoid killing ZFR (without reason) if you did remember that, or would it not bother you? If you DID think ZFR was hinting at a power role would it give you pause even then? Hypothetically, of course.

Honest answers only!

I do have a sense of irony.

@joe - can't quote, on the phone...
Which previous game? In your game when I was scum with scene and HSL we deliberately targeted him (twice unsuccessfully) as we felt he was one of the strongest players.

As scum!Pook, I wouldn't have killed ZFR either way because it would weaken my position. In last game as well, GR's defense of trent who flipped scum had almost succeeded in getting GR - the mason - lynched...wait why am I explaining this to you? You were the game's host! Unless you want to tell me a clone was hosting it. You get the point, and point is the scum flip weakened GR's position. Likewise here. If I did the nightkill on ZFR, my position is weakened.

Heck, even if he wasn't one of the prominent figures on my wagon, I haven't seen enough ZFR Post-Day 1 in a long time to be afraid of ZFR Post-Day 1 that I want to nightkill him early, and I haven't seen anything telling me his kill would give scum an advantage.