test... test... I've been trying for hours to post a longish post. Let's see whether the length is the problem.

It's probably unclosed tags... assuming your not swearing caps ;)

I'll try to split it up in several posts.

True. I was under the impression that RWare did some more pushing without actual switching. But actually he did quite the same as I did. First staying on Gamma, then switching under time pressure. ... So maybe he is a towny after all, who was just as wrong as I (and most others, since my main target Gamma was town too). Or he is scum who held back until he could hammer.


And you're reading a tad too much into that comment and are a tad too defensive. I didn't say I believe you are scum. I just pointed out, for completeness sake, that it is possible that such a comment could come from scum. You know, scum could try to post some 'insights' to appear helpful and make someone else (adalia) look bad in the process. Yes, you seem to be one of the most towny players around at the moment. But discarding the possibility that you could be scum completely, would be very bad play. At least until one of gogtrial, trent or drealmer flip scum. Then and only then would you be completely cleared (and probably be NKed for that very reason)

Second part:


Oh, I think RWare will have to be back with more. The Day is still young and he can't disappear completely without being replaced. So what makes you think he WON'T be back? We have plenty of time, so what's the hurry?

And what are the advantages of lynching RWarehall over adalia? I see one: adalia is more active and therefore currently more fun to play with and it's possible to actually discuss with him. So if these two are really a team the gameplay as such looses less if we lynch the mostly silent RWarehall. But I don't think that is what you meant. It's too meta. So what advantages do you see in lynching RWarehall?

What is that something? I must have missed or misread it.

True.

OK. If that really was your reasoning, it is actually understandable.

But one more question: if lynching RWarehall isn't optimum play for you, then who is your preferred target? I take it you think drealmer more likely to be scum? Do you base that entirely on the matrix? Or is there something else that makes RWare less scummy in your eyes? Also you're right and we do need to watch trent. He's a dangerous player and if he's scum, we're in trouble. But the point is: if we get it wrong, we're at LyLo tomorrow and I just see more reasons to suspect RWare, drealmer ... and you. So trent wouldn't be my preferred target. Better than no-lynch, of course, but it's far too early in the day to base votes on preventing no-lynch.


@HSL: concerning drealmer: there's a difference between suspecting anyone (that is what every town-player should do until someone is solidly cleared) and being willing to lynch anyone until we hit scum by chance. We can't afford that and the attitude "I'm happy to kill anyone" would fit a neutral role more. Only that we don't have a neutral role in this game. But showing this attitude doesn't make drealmer town. It just makes him drealmer - and could very well be scum, who doesn't even try to appear towny, because he knows he will be seen as 'just drealmer'.

drealmer is my preferred target for a number of reasons:
1) He is out and out the scummiest player.
2) If we kill drealmer there is a lot to learn. If he is scum, then we basically win, finding his partner shouldn't be too tough. Worst case scenario is that you or Hyper is scum and fooling us, but I find that quite unlikely. If RWarehall is scum then with drealmer down the only possible partner left for him is gogtrial. So we lynch gogtrial tomorrow (as the scum team is either him and trent or him and RWarehall) and we just need to figure out which one is his buddy and lynch them.
3) He's the least helpful player and the hardest to read (watch him vote me for saying that) and he's the smallest loss to town tomorrow if he is town as he isn't making any effort to engage with the rest of us in solving the game.

I find Hyper to be the 2nd scummiest player in the game primarily by the way he intentionally passes shade with his leading questions and seems to ask questions he should already know the answer to. Don't be confused by the fact he asks a lot of obvious questions. He very well could be scum, it's only the limited matrix which makes it seem less likely. But Hyper + Lift seems a very real possibility.

I still find Adalia to be towny. Of all people in the game, he has been the most revealing as opposed to Hyper's hints of thoughts he is holding back.

The scummiest is clearly Drealmer. He's the only player who day 1 claimed to know Gamma and Hunter were bad lynches. I mean seriously, who knows anything day 1? His logic also always has been off from conventional wisdom and may very well explain the peculiar Gamma lynch. I've seen JMich mislynched before (Cult game). His supposed skill at the game (especially without any PRs) doesn't weigh well against Gamma's failure to really answer any questions posed. It's not like he's head and shoulders better than everyone else or anything.

The only problem is Drealmer (or Hyper's) partner. I don't see anything that puts any of GogTrial, Trent, Lift, or Adalia below the town line, but since we know Drealmer and Hyper are not a pair, one of that group has to be scum. And if it's neither Drealmer or Hyper, then two of that group are deceiving us.

But if it takes my lynch to believe me, go ahead...even if it isn't today, I suspect I'll be lynched tomorrow because no one wants to risk me winning two in a row as scum. It's why I can care less if I'm lynched now rather than later.

how am I being scummy? really? because I'm not doing the things you (general you) want me to be doing?

Seriously, I don't get it. All I do is lay out my reads and give my inputs and then ppl get all butthurt and I get frustrated and I'm viewed as being difficult or causing problem because all I'm trying to do is BE UNDERSTOOD, when, no, I'm just not seeing things how others are seeing them and I'm articulating how and different things I see and when I do that you (general) get pissy!

so I give a general (and true) "I am comfortable lynching all of you" (because I am now to varying degrees) because it's not like you listen to what I'm saying anyway (before I get aggro even) to go in to great detail on everything that makes me have that comfort - and why I am comfortable lynching a good number of you should be evident enough if you've been paying attention I think, and yet I'm uncooperative?

tell me what you want from me and I'll try to give it, really

I told you why we shouldn't lynch hunter and why he was more likely town AND why gamma was not likely scum, and no one listened to me, yet I'm the least helpful?

We should lynch RW because his attempts at logic are horribly illogicial (that's not hard to follow if you follow his logic, you should be able to understand what I'm saying) and just seem like he's trying to legitimize viewpoints that make no sense - I AM REPEATING MYSELF, there's more, but I've already said it, my views haven't changed how is it helpful if I repeated?

We should lynch adalia because SAME THING, illogical logics (talk about outright scummy!!!) that, to me, seem like he's just trying to push some stories - If you've been following along you should know what adalia has been saying and, to me, should be pretty evident with what I find scummy (they've been posting shittons of shit lately, but, it still mostly just seems like spewing stories to get ppl to follow rather than game-solving, now, I'm aware adalia is usually way-off on reads, so, I take it with a tempered view on his likelihood to be scum, just as I do with HSL's seeming way of playing that twists and misreps and be's difficult rather than attempt to understand.) There's just SO MUCH there, lynching seems important / good to do to clear the clutter at this point on top of all the scumminess contained within all that clutter he's been posting.

We should lynch trent because he's been too non-commital and to me feels like he very well could just be "sitting back waiting" to see how things go. He was at me on D1, but my wagon didn't build or grow or go, and he sense hunter being the next in line, and got on their in, what I saw to be, an opportunistic way, at a convenient time to make his position and getting on to be less suspicious if it went to lynch.

We should lynch lift because, to me, he's been antagonistic and unhelpful (way more than I am.) Like, seriously, I keep trying to focus on the game itself and content and it seems to me like he wants to be pulling it out of that and make it about personal shit, I had to disengage from him because it seemed to me like he didn't want to even play the game with me but wanted to bicker about non-game shit.

We should lynch gogtiral because in my experience with him he has been SUPER-helpful and game-solvy and seeming to have many pursuits and ideas that explored a lot of good things (a lot of them often times things that lined up with the little things I see in people too, reassuring to me.) He's REALLY reserved here, it's quite off-putting and at this point lynchworthy, especially combined with the end of day yesterday AND hesitance to place a vote.

We should lynch HSL because, as said, he's seeming to be more antagonistic and nit-picky and trying to find things to misunderstand (yes, I know, as is usual) rather than work together with ppl to find scum, and at this point it's egregious enough and we're at a point in the game where he could definitely be scum doing it and I'd be comfortable lynching him for sure with all the accumulative posts he's had that ping me.

Look at the last paragraph of your post #400 from where I stand. You admit that the reason that puts the others in the suspect pool applies to you too, but you we shouldn't hold it against you because you are town, thus we should take your word on that and not put you in the suspect pool. When in that same post you don't just accept adaliabooks claim of being town, and do put him in the suspect pool. So yes, from where I stand, it's not a strong and convincing argument that sets you apart from the rest.

But let's assume that you are town. What is your plan to improve your not so stellar game and help us nail scum?

What do you think of Lifthrasil, adaliabooks and RWarehall?



Same question for you - what do you think of Lifthrasil, adaliabooks and RWarehall?



I don't see what about the method for filling the first scum slot I presented could/would require inside info as scum, it seems like the logical way to do it using random.org. If cristigale went another way, then I don't understand how the picking scum part works in this setup. Which brings me to the part I quote here - I'm afraid I don't follow, could you rephrase it?


That's also what I find confusing/troubling about his play, and am not quite sure how to read it. I've toyed with the thought that it may simply be (and this is going to come out pretty harsh, sorry, not in the mood of sugar-coating it for him) attributed to a sense of superiority and arrogance - we're beneath his level and he can't be bothered to interact with us on our level. It's what keeps me from putting him into the scum pile without any question-marks.

*refreshes thread*

See what I mean?

no, HSL, I really don't see what you mean, why don't you actually point out / explain how what I said does that

you really just misunderstand me, like, on a deep level, I think sometimes, if that is what it is

try and readjust yourself, k? something is off on how you perceive me and practically everything I say

Hadn't expected this, but reading the last couple of posts have cleared things up a lot for me. I think I'm ready to vote, with thanks to adalia.

Let's do some proper responses, and then get to the meat of things!

*hold music while I write my post, check up on references, take some moments for existential angst and doubt if I'm really making the right decision, and have dinner in between since I doubt I can finish the post before then*

Could be, but your reason to get us out of stalemate does not really clear you as town either.


I will have to come back to this, after people I've asked about you give their view/opinion (don't want to influence them).


I didn't say that he wouldn't be back, period. I said I didn't expect him to be back "any time soon", as the memory of him going silent after voting GammaEmerald on D1 is pretty fresh. That he has already, is only somewhat surprising after seeing what he posted.

It's not about being in a hurry, it's that I mistrust the sitting back; more than anything else, it looks like avoiding real-time interactions, for as much "real-time" they can be on this medium, as a way to distance his current play from previous ones, and coming into the game with calculated posts to steer things in the direction he wants in a manner that most would still town-read, as they did D1.


If you have them both as most likely to be scum, i.e. expect either one to flip scum, and since they can be scum together, lynching RWarehall first clears two other players while lynching adaliabooks only one.

I also wanted to see adaliabooks reaction. He said he'd happily lynch RWarehall Today, even though he doesn't think it's the best choice. So assuming that adaliabooks is scum, was that confidence he could pull it off as remaining scum, or is he scum with somebody else? After all, he can be scum with just about everyone except for trentonlf; figuring out who his scum-partner is would be a lot more difficult.

And then there's RWarehall town-reading adaliabooks - is that distancing, or scum town-reading a townie?

Again this is all assuming that we hit scum by lynching either one of them.


I thought I read some of my own thoughts in terms of strategy (like the bit about RWarehall's lynch over adaliabooks one) in his post , but after [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_46_henchmen_hijinks/post412]this post of his, and his latest ones, I'm inclined to think that I probably read too much into his post #391.



Took you long enough. I do like that in the same post you accuse me of passing shade, you are doing exactly the same thing.

Asking questions, obvious to you or with answers you already know, or hinting instead of straight revealing,, to see reactions and the arguments the other party will make is really unheard of town, eh? So, it must be scum passing shade, right?

I don't for a minute buy that town-you actually believes this. But who knows, you may be able to sell it to enough of the others.


Isn't this nice - "I'm so townie that everybody else may have managed to deceive me, and the rest of you, except for drealmer7 and Hyper who are obvi-scum. And do remember, since these two can't be scum together, and you all seem pretty townie to me, it may well be Hyper (obvi-scum) with Lift (says the matrix)".

And I don't mean this as a defence of Lifthrasil.


And yes @drealmer7, I'm sure you don't see what I mean, as you don't even entertain the thought that it may be you that needs to readjust himself when playing with the rest of us. If repeating yourself in the same way gets you nowhere, and we don't understand you, wouldn't you think that trying a different approach and phrasing/wording may work better? Telling us that "it should be evident" when you acknowledge that we don't think the same way as you do, is not going to make us see what you (want us to) see.

Anyway.

I'm not sure what your plan is in regard to your post #428. You do know that there are only two scum in the game. You also know that if we mislynch Today, it's LyLo Tomorrow. Let's say we mislynch Today. What do we do Tomorrow?

AGAIN, HSL, I'm not saying adjust how you play

I'm saying you are wrong about your assessment on me, and it DOES NEED adjusting

like, that you don't even GET THAT, is part of the frikken problem, geebus

RW, I still have him leaning more toward the town, his play is what I expect of him when he is town. He has fooled me several times in the past as scum so I am always less sure about him, but if it came down to voting him, adalia, or Lift then RW would be my last choice.

Lift and adaliabooks I have about the same, neutral to leaning scum. Both seem to be trying to find scum, but it almost feels like they are just trying to appear townie more than anything at times. The one thing I do agree with from both of them is drealmer. He doesn't care who we lynch, just wants someone to be lynched. Not a very townie attitude to have at this point, and his attitude sucks so if he's really town then he is not really helping us no matter how he wants to spin it.

Can you point out specific things about RWarehall that have him leaning town for you?

What about gogtrial34987?

Who would you vote if it were lynch time, and why?


No, @drealmer7, I get it just fine. You don't get that it's not personal for me - I only know you from the forum mafia games (IIRC, we have barely interacted outside the game), so my assessment on you is related to and within the context of the game. So again, if you are town, it'd be appreciated if you made an effort not to stand opposite the rest of town.

Now, could you answer my latest game related question (post #432)? What exactly is the plan in that post ##428 of yours?