I am back and reading to get caught up again. I was gone all yesterday and then fell asleep early, thought I'd get to this last night but apparently I'm sleeping better a bit and that is good so I wasn't going to sweat it, it's not like I'm pulling a hijack or flubb and providing zero content for D1.

What can I say, I try to be thorough! ;-)

Other than that, good reply. And actually you pointed me to someone who sailed by mostly unnoticed. OK, so now I am piggybacking on your post, but Hunter really feels very absent. Hunter, what's up? Don't you want to play with us? Why so few and so short posts?

But here's something else I noticed when going back. As announced, I was trying to compare drealmer and gamma to find out who feels scummier. What stood out was gamma's own suspicions and the lack of reason for them. His top pick is RWarehall, but the reasons for that are meagre:
Reason 1 is given in : basically just feels and 'what drealmer said' ... but if one goes back to what drealmer actually said ([url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_46_henchmen_hijinks/post77]#77), it refers to pre-game considerations (why not to pick drealmer) - which CAN'T be scummy, because roles weren't distributed yet. So here Gamma agrees with faulty reasoning about pre-game behaviour to justify his 'feeling' that RWarehall is scum.
Reason 2 is given in and is pure mis-representation. "people who didn't repeat are scummier than repeaters". You trying to say scum are faking non-repeats, RW?" ... No, not at all what RW said in [url=https://www.gog.com/forum/general/forum_mafia_46_henchmen_hijinks/post90]#90. There he just asks to also watch the players who didn't have any dupes. And I think that reasonable, not to give anyone a carte blanche.
Reason 3 in #155: no reason at all. Just 'feel he is scumposting' without any elaboration to why.

So: false reasoning, (intentional?) mis-representation and top-pick scum accusation without substance, even after being asked about it. Gamma's posts have all the components I'd expect from scum.

@Gamma: maybe all this is really a misunderstanding due to different playstyle. If so, please indulge me and elaborate, this time thoroughly, why RWarehall is your top pick? Is it just because he suspected you? Or is there more substance to it, which you have been hiding so far?

I just feel misrepped and misunderstood. Just because I make a few posts explaining why I think someone could be scum doesn't mean they are my only consideration as scum. It doesn't mean that I'm pushing them as OMG THEY ARE SCUM OMG!!! Notice my vote is not placed?? I feel like everything gets blown out of proportion and it is infuriating.

I don't go into HSL's posts trying to misread them, I am explaining that, consistently when I read him, it seems like he is being that way, EACH INDIVIDUAL TIME.

allllll I do is talk about why ppl could be scum and what things ping me as indications of them potentially being scum, over and over and over

HSL is like my #4 scumread!!!! I can't help that he does a dozen little things that I feel could be scum-dicative and so I talk about him more than the 2 or 3 things I see adalia do that I think make him MORE likely scum than HSL.

I'm not tunneling anyone!!! if it seems like I am, GET OVER IT I, I'M NOT!!!

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as far as gamma goes, I think he could be scum, sure, but, I also think it is likely he is a bit overwhelmed and a bit rusty and a bit out of his element because he's unfamiliar with everyone but me. I don't think anything he's done is damning as scum and the wagon on him looks highly suspect

I can understand a bit of his frustrations and lean more to giving him the benefit of the doubt for now, less "avoiding of questions" and more "uncertain to go about addressing it all becaus he's not sure how to read how they're coming in?

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adalia is my top SR. He has made multiple posts "I just feel like drealmer's really scum this time" - seems like he's really trying to force his conviction across so other's believe it more than actually believes it himself

combined with lamenting about their scum game and how it they are as scum, seems a bit desperate to not be seen as scum and pings pretty good

yes, I keep seeing non-commital posts like this from adalia and keep seeing them trying to instill doubt in other's reads more than scum-hunt

(I pretty much love all of HSL's 163 post and it gives me a a handful of good towny game-solving pings)

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2nd SR is RW, seems like he's trying to keep his options open (rather than simply be uncertain because it is early) so that he can legitimize a scumread on anyone, and specifically "setting up" his basis for scumreading gamme and myself and staying away from all the other stuff, like, staying away from sooo many other posts/not commenting on the majority of players posts

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trent at this point seems pretty towny, and that is because he is seeming actual towny not because he is seeming scummy and so I reverse my read to town - what this means for trent, I don't know, I'm not going to sweat it this early in the game though, he keeps the townread as a genuine townread for now unless I feel the need to second guess it

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nah I've just been a slacker a little and then didn't get to the game last night like I thought I would - I feel like my participation is getting blown a little out of proportion, it's not even a full week into D1 and I'd say the game is having lots of content and moving at a good pace

also, I never don't know what to write as scum!!! HSL has a good view/reply to this sentiment in the follow-up post

if anything I think it's been good for the game that I stepped out for a few days and allowed other things to generate around other things

also, for the record, no need to tiptoe around me!!!! I try to keep RL out of the game as much as I can, really my participation frequency should be a non-issue seen as totally NAI, but when it is questioned I can't help but address it - again, the state of the game is pretty good for 6days in and it's not like I've done nothing!!! but if you want to say I'm scum because of whatever, feel free, it won't bother me!!! NEVER tiptoe around me, tear me apart, it's cool

dude, seriously you're being really dramatic about this I think, it's not a week into D1, I've done a fair amount of content posting (again, not like I've just slacked the entire game for 2 Days or something even CLOSE to that.) If you think I'm scum for how I'm participating at this point in the game say so and vote me and push my lynch or say I'm scum for it, if not, then don't and FOCUS ON THE GAME - ask me questions if you have them about the game, or comment about other stuff in the game, my "offense' of lacking participation is a minimal issue I think and so your persistence on it gives me a bit of pings

sure at this point I am later posting content than I'd like to be but, it's not OMG OFFENSIVE NON-PARTICIPATION at this point, is it?!

what the hell is this talk?!?!?!?!? utterly ridiculous, IMO, scummy really to suggest the underlined part would be a thing

I'm BARELY inactive, it's not "RL problems" or anything at all, you qualifying it as such seems really scummy, geeeeebus

this is a hugely distraction non-post

I'M STILL FREAKING HERE HOLY CRAP!!! how can I even be considered to have "fallen off the face of the earth" !! NOT EVEN A WEEK INTO D1 WTF?! no one usually questions when someone is in/out for a couple days here or there, and again, I happened to be gone all day yesterday and fell asleep rather than got to post, it's just a circumstance of non-impact really, nothing "RL problems interfering" or anything, simply was gone all day and didn't get to post/catch up as soon as I'd have liked

yes, so much this, and lifthrasil knows me better than this, all I can do is not take it personal and think it could likely be scum-motivations or a misunderstanding of the situation

meh, just some games I am throwing out a bunch of reads and why because I have a bunch of reads and why and some games I don't. some games I'm caught up and able to be active "with" the game, and some games not, it's all not indicative of anything

and I never meant to "use RL as an excuse" as to why I wasn't participating, I simply got asked about it and told why I decided to step away rather than get into it, on ONE occasion - since then my lack of posting has been because I've been busy and a bit behind is all

I think if I made a post like this I'd get painted as scum for it, but it is the sort of comment I agree with/would make and don't think is scummy, just an observation of a potential truth/scum-dication

it was RW

the player they replaced was a4plz

ugh...that game...

There's nothing to buy as I"m not selling anything. Whether or not you believe me I can't change, but it's the reason I did reveal when I did.




DIsappearing for 3 days is more than being gone all day yesterday and falling asleep last night. This is why I say you don't seem invested in the game, you are being nonchalant about your absence for 3 days like it's no big deal and it is a big deal. The easiest way for scum to hide is to post with no actual content or to just not post because we love to give people a pass for doing just that, especially on Day 1. If you are scum and want to try and win by as little participation as possible then you are playing a bad game, and I'm not going to let anyone do that anymore in a game I'm in. If it was not RL keeping you away for 3 days then you are not invested in playing this game, and that screams scum to me.

I didn't post for 3 days, I wasn't absent for 3 days

I was gone all yesterday and slept and the days before that I was busy and could only read and do partial catchuping and simply didn't post becuase I thought I'd be all caught up yesterday and last night, but yesterday went differently

seriously want to just drop it unless ppl really think it is scummy though otherwise let me and/or the mod handle whether I should be replaced or not and get on with scumhunting

Calm down. I didn't accuse you of anything. It was just an evil thought that crossed my mind. And unlike some, I like to talk about what crosses my mind unless I have a good reason not to. As I said, I was sure that no one here would stoop so low. So I didn't suggest this would be 'a thing', like you put it. And I was mildly surprised that it has been a 'thing' in the past - which you seem to know. So don't pretend that it is SO unthinkable.

And about me suggesting RL problems as an explanation for you absence, that wasn't a distraction or anything. I was just trying to cut you some slack, because I know that RL can suck. Sorry for mentioning alternate, comparatively harmless explanations for your absence and sorry for trying not to see everything through the 'drealmer is scum' glasses. I just was trying to consciously counteract my own tendency to tunnel, which I have just like you do.

But since you now assure us, that there are no RL problems after all, that explanation is out of the equation. That leaves only one explanation for an absence long enough to earn a prod: you weren't interested enough in participating in the game for the last few days. For whatever reason. And speaking from experience being scum is one of the main reasons that can reduce the interest in participating in the game regularly.

again you put another negative spin on it

it has nothing to do with "not being interested enough to participate"

not at all, this is a good game and I'm very interested and very invested

Okay I'm laughing my ass off at the fact you think it's OMGUS logic I'm using. RWarehall seems to be saying things strangely and it's giving me a strange vibe. Actually, question, is RWarehall a native English speaker? Because it's partly his wording that's set my radar off. Even then, I'm concerned because maybe it's a sign of him being town because I know town has less of a filter. I just suspect him the most because I'm thinking "maybe there's malice there, it kinda feels that way", while most others haven't really hit my radar as hard.

I'm gonna see how this current conversation goes down. Things are getting spicy.

I also think it is totally fine to list your scumspects or say who you think is town

maybe not over-do it, a lot of ppl on MS overdo it like crazy, or it is the only thing they do sometimes!!! it drives me nuts

I like saying who I think could be scum more than anything and usually keep TRs to myself, but not always or by policy or anything

so yeah, again, top 4 most likely scum for me at this point:

adalia
RW
lift
HSL

Yeah, cool. btw my reads have changed a bit since that list. The null line has certainly shifted.

Meant to get to this earlier - can you elaborate on what exactly you misunderstood, and how you misunderstood it?



I was going to ask you about the "don' deserve answering" part, but I see that Lifthrasil already did, and that you replied to him. So:

A pointless question? Doesn't really benefit the game? Really? What counts as a town or scum ping for one, may not necessarily counts as such for another, true. But getting your reasoning on record does, plus it gets people to go back and take another look at players. Both can, and usually do, spark discussion. Do you really not see the value in this?


To you, yes, to drealmer7, no. At least not for me. The way you reacted told me that you were waiting for something to happen, something big enough to change the way you'd vote before D1 was out. Too bad RWarehall spoke before you, as it'd have been interesting to see how you'd have handle it while trying to not give away anything.


I don't follow why suspecting trentonlf as scum, and him pushing drealmer7 could/would lead you to re-evaluate your view on drealmer7; you've stated a number of standalone reasons you find drealmer7 scummy. Elaborate, please.


[emphasis added]

I didn't recall him making such an argument, but went back and re-read his posts to see if I missed something - there are only two posts he talked about it before he revealed his picks, and the second one is in response to me as I wanted clarification on his view on the matter. He later also responded to gogtrial34987 and GammaEmerald on the matter.
I still don't see anything that reads as "revealing picks is bad".
Could you point out what he said that you read this way?




Not sure how to read this. Elaborate, please.


Does his mean that Lifthrasil dropped to the leaning scum pool?


And I see drealmer7 decided to grace us with his presence... don't know where to start.

I'm a bit pressed for time at the moment, so will get to that, and anything else that transpires in the mean time, later (my) tonight.

I really don't know if I can, it's just what I felt I was trying to do. I was trying to be like "yo back off or things will get ugly." I think the best analogue to a past game is when I decided to try to use a power I thought I had as a bargaining chip. Yes. However, I wrote down the pairings and noted that my current 3 scumspects (RWare, Lift, and a null Hunter) cannot be scum together in any combination. So I know someone is scum in my townreads.

Kinda subjective tbh, I felt like I participated more as a result of being recruited in last game than I would've if I stayed a townie.

@drealmer care to explain your scum picks?


@hyper Thought trent was asking why gamma thought you were scum where he was asking about timing thing, then remembered something gamma said to drealmer about Rwarehall making him look bad and kinda misremembered to be you *face palm* and finally the part where you said something to adalia about him turning out a great scum performance but drealmer took it as something else. In short that's a completely useless post. Probably the stupidest post out of all mafia games here.

I can't be bothered to answer this point by point as Gog's software isn't really the best for that and I'll just do it in one go:

I notice you don't disagree that you're own question was pointless? :P

Perhaps pointless is a bit harsh, but I don't think it benefits the game. I can say that I think being absent from the game is a townie thing to do. You can have that on record that that is why I think player X is townie. If I'm scum it means nothing, I'm probably lying. If I'm town it means nothing, I'm probably wrong in my read.
It might spark someone to look again at that player, but it's just as likely to make them misread them (because of bias towards me or because my reason sways them) as it is to get a better read on them.
All in all I don't think it benefits the game to have answered that question.

I wasn't waiting for something to happen, I was confused by something that had happened. drealmer wasn't my top pick. I didn't want to actually share my top pick (trent) because I wanted to observe how he behaved more before approaching that. But trent picking drealmer as his top pick made me wonder if my theory was accurate.

Because if trent is scum (and I think it's fairly likely he is) then it's unlikely drealmer is. There's no reason to attempt any kind of bussing / distancing like that this early in the game.

trent didn't. And technically I suppose drealmer didn't either, though it's definitely the vibe I get from it (don't share!! WIFOM!! blah blah blah!!!) but trent said he agreed with what drealmer said and didn't approve of sharing picks.
Ok, it's not very strong. But there is literally no way sharing picks can be bad for town. If you'd like to point out any info to the contrary, please do. So being opposed to doing so at all seems either like they haven't really thought about the game or that they actively want to discourage a pro town activity. I don't know what you would call that, but to me that's scummy.


As for drealmer.. I'm sorry, but you got mod prodded. That is not normal absence from the game. To come back in and not even claim any RL reason and say you weren't even really absent seems really scummy.
To top it off you place a vote on me (with little to no reason), which is exactly what I said I though town you would be doing earlier in the game... So either you are town being your normal nuts self, or your placing that vote hoping it to be misconstrued as your normal misguided hubris and hoping it throws people off the scent.

So I'm thoroughly confused as to whether trent and drealmer are both scum, one of them is, or neither.

Of the two I'm not sure which I would consider my higher pick for scum, I'd be equally happy with either lynch.