seconded

1) Both of you are telling me that I'm wrong about who is town and who is scum.

2) Both of you are constantly picking at me, insisting that I'm the scummiest person in the game.

3) Both of you have presented no alternative to myself.

4) I voted for myself, pushing myself up to L-2 and both walk away from the opportunity I presented.
* Buck removes his vote but gives no reason and no alternate suspect.
* Yog could have pushed me to L-1 but keeps his vote on Trent, which is a throw away move.

5) So we have the guy who only suspects me voting nobody, and the guy who suspects me the most doing a throw away vote on someone else.

6) They keep insisting that I'm the scummiest person in the game, but neither actually wants me lynched. They both walked away.

Why is that?

Is it because you are both scum and know for a fact that I am 100% town-aligned.
Why is it so bad if everyone gets confirmation of my alignment?
Are you two scum buddies?
Who is your third friend?

Is this what I should have said in my prior post?
Scum = Buck, Yog, ???
Confirmed Town = Micro, Farky

unvote


It's 7pm. I'm turning in early for extra rest.

Huh. While I'm aware I need to continue catching up and there are other replies I want to write to questions asked of me in the last 24 hours I need to prioritize this situation with CatV.

Wait, what? Where did I do that?

The only thing that barely comes close is in post #358 when I said I thought of asking for a sub. I think it was clear I intended that to mean "I get what it is like to have to fight against your own body just to push out the next post." As a sort of sign I admired that you kept going so far with a high level of participation.

Speaking of which, in post #358 I clearly stated you are one of the most active players in the part I said your post appeared LAMIST. So I really don't get where you got the idea that "joppo commented on my lack of activity and overall commitment".

Under normal circumstances I'd probably be suspicious that this is a sneaky lie, but... I can't see even scum!CatV making that push. I can only suppose the tough situation outside your window led you to some sort of confusion. I just want to clear the misunderstanding here because that is what it must be, whether you're town or scum.

One other thing I feel I must state here is that I'm 100% with Trent's feeling of being sorry that you're so sick and I think I speak for everyone that we all want to see you well.


I have NEVER seen any player in the Gog Mafia community go for such an underhanded tactic. The only case I remember reading about was more than a decade ago. And don't just believe me, I am certain that those that played for much longer than me (like Pooka, Trent or Lift) can tell you the same.

Whether any player in this game you're interacting with is town or scum reamins to be seen, but I have played with everyone before* and I am 100% certain that not one of them would ever resort to that crap just to win a game. Heck, if I was scum I'd feel terrible getting a victory at the cost of anyone's health.

* (except mchack, but from what I got from him in this game and the fact that he played years ago with old-timers that don't seem to have a grudge against him have me convinced he is just as opposed to this sort of low punch as any of the rest)


Now if you'll excuse me, I will get back to writing replies to the rest of what I need to reply to. (It's possible my next post goes out in the morning, since tomorrow is saturday)

100% agree with these reads. For yogs to make a move against trent now, this is him telling us he's scum.

Well if cat's reads above are true (which is what I believe at the moment) then mafia are not elect voting for a townie right now. But what gives you the Idea that only because scum wouldn't elect a townie the entire mechanic is void? If it's a mechanic that separates town from mafia, it's a very useful mechanic for town, indeed. You claim there's an information void in this game, but refuse to gain any information from the election mechanic?

the whole big group of townies that spontaneously all decided to elect trent as pope ... is three. One too many if you think it's a concerted scum effort. And I know for a fact that the one that first elected trent is not scum. So, nope. Not a slam dunk at all.
You've been hard to read, so thank you for confirming your alignment that easily.

vote yogsloth

Well, I'm not gonna do like mchack and insta-vote you for picking Trent out of the blue. But you see, I'm not exactly well-versed with whatever shenanigans happen over on MU (and on a re-read you don't even mention this "experiment" was on MU), so I'd like you to, like, clarify more. Bestow us some of your long experience and insight, or just convince me.

You can re-create that experiment if need be, but please, give us more to work with, man.

@Lift:
I don’t quite grasp how the mechanics work. I’m not sure, if you can/want to answer this question, but I’ll ask anyway: When will the game end? When we reach 3/3? Because then we would need 4 votes to investigate and scum isn’t gonna investigate one of theirs. So: Is it 3/3?


I believe, we had a similar discussion before. I’m sure you picked up a few things. The thing in this setup is, that Catventurer is right: You (and Micro) are confirmed town. You don’t have a vote anymore, but your input could be very valuable, if you would put your mind to it. No pressure though. You’re not supposed to know stuff for certain. Town never does.


Back then somebody already tried to rile me up by pushing my supposed buttons. Did Pooka tell you about that in scumchat? You seem to be getting the two of us mixed up though. You’re the one seemingly having issues with being offline. Or is that just to push the thought, that we can’t be scum together, because according to you, scum converse all the time to coorrdinate. Is that it?

You also keep refusing to state where I supposedly said/implied those things about you.

So after Pookas attemt to get my attention back to him, when he stated in post348, that his vote on me is serious, you now try to turn my vote into OMGUS? I voted you in post336, your first OMGUS-attempt was in post340. In between to now we have the „you target me specifically, because you think I’m weak and you want to break me“. The line you’re still continuing. All of it more than just a little weird, considering you started it off by claiming I’m taking things personally in post345.



I wonder how this game will be referred to later
Conclave, the self-voters
or
Conclave, the Big OMGUS

Well, yogsloth, considering your stand is „scum don’t try to elect town pope ever“ your vote makes sense. But wouldn’t it have been equally sufficient to vote for Cat or mchack, who were pushing for trents election? As a plus, they already had votes.

So, trentonlf, is it a little late in the game for OMGUS-shenanigans? Maybe. But your outrage seems genuine.

I’m inclined to believe, this is actually town on town.



Who else do we have?
Bucktoothgamer: Still no independent thought/opion whatsoever. Still potential scum to me.

mchack: Still clinging to the optimistic stance, the „election mechanic“ will actually glean useful information somehow. It seems genuine, but the longer this goes on, the more I’m questioning it.

Pooka: Still doing nothing. Still scum to me.

1. I dont recall disputing any of your town picks from that list

2. I just dont want this game to end with you being a well played scum when my gut has been against you from the beginning. I took my vote off you because were you right about your scum list we didnt need yogs and joppo jumping on your wagon to take you out.

3. I have voted yogs already in the past even before they fell out of love with you, but maybe thats not convenient for you to mention.

Vote yogsloth

I wasnt going to do it with my last post because at the time no one had a vote on yogs and I didnt feel like spreading votes even wider with us getting closer to deadline.

I so sorry that you feel offended by something that I said about Flocke....

BUT......

Let's look at your post objectively.

The last time you posted before this was Post #358, so you skip over Confirmed Town Farky (Post #359), mchack (#360), Flocke (#361), Pooka (#362), and you get the point. You skip over all of those posts to home in on my posts.

Your post is just a huge wall of text that is 100% you being offended. Nothing else. You contribute absolutely nothing to the game. It's just you being offended about something I said about someone else.

This is an example of what I mean when I said that Joppo never says anything that hasn't already been said by anyone else.


No, I think I was right when I said this is how everyone's alignment is:
Scum = Flocke, Joppo, Yog
Town = Trent, Pooka, Mchack, Bucktooth
Confirmed Town = Micro, Farky


I previously thought that the Prankser was someone town-aligned that wanted me to back off a bit in hopes that the scum would reveal themselves. I now think that the Prankers is scum. They were hoping to humiliate me so that I would leave the game in shame because most of the town players really are just playing follow the Catventurer and waiting for me to solve the game for them.

When it didn't, Flocke decided to just ride my ass to oblivion with the goal of driving me out of the game through sheer exhaustion.

Now Joppo is acting like I should be ashamed of myself to the extent that I should just go away. However that behavior really only makes sense if he's scum.... because well, he is.

Why do they have it out for me so much? Probably because they notice that most of town teammates have not been putting much effort in. They see that I also put a lot of stock into Farky's opinion. They see Trent as someone they can just boogyman enough that people will vote him out out of sheer fear.



I was only commenting about you being offline to make a point. For someone who has be insistent that I'm not online and participating enough, you seem to be offline a lot. Your demands specifically have lead to me feeling pressured to try to be online more and was having a direct contribution towards making me sicker.

Now if you will excuse me please, I really am running a fever again and have a cough on top of it.
I really need to go rest.

Really? So no more reason not to elect trent then? now that you seem to think him town after all...

Looks like I'm gonna die soon. Oh well,l gave it my best. If I'm right that just moves Town to LYLO, so still a chance.

Hey, Town, don't lose this, ok:


DAY ONE FINAL VOTECOUNT
Micro West 6 - Cat 27, joppo 92, yogs 102, Fark 106, mchack 133, bucktooth 134
Pooka 1 - scene 44
Scene 1 - pooka 50
Fark 1 - Trent 105
Cat 1 - micro 67


DAY TWO FINAL VOTECOUNT
Fark 5 - Trent 192, mchack 211, bucktooth 262, cat 264, pooka 265
Bucktooth 1 - Fark 241
Mchack 1 - yogs 224

I can still treestump and I'll add Day 3 once I flip.

I really think it's likely trent/mchack/ and the 3rd... I still lean against cat despite everything. Bucktooth, maybe.

Hey, maybe killing me will be a good thing because then you all will listen to me lol

lol c'mon man, this is the wolfiest post that ever lived

Look how hard he's campaigning for trent to be pope

Think about this Town, how 100% rock solid convinced are you that *anyone* else is Town?

You're not as sure as mchack is about trent, are ya?

You are accusing me of being scum because people were pushing for my election, how exactly is that making me scum again? What exactly have I done to perpetuate this, supported this, or even talked about this for anyone that makes me scum in your eyes? You said:

"There is zero possibility a whole big group of townies just spontaneously all decided to elect trent as pope. This one is a slam dunk

I actually did play a game like this years ago where mafia had to maneuver one of their own to be the Day vote, and it was an impossible disaster. "Reverse mafia" was the name of the experiment. This is what it looked like. Just a whole bunch of people voting for no real reason, and it was like... yep, here are the scums lol.

So yeah.

Trent is a baddie, 100%."

Explain to me please exactly how this jives, I still can't figure this one out even after sleeping on it last night. Also, who in this wild scenario are my scum buddies that have been pushing to get me elected, because you never even elaborated on that either.

Here's the problem Yog. I was leaning towards Trent being town to begin with.

The whole "but trent is super scary and badass when he's scum" is not good enough for me. That's just a boogyman vote and isn't a valid reason to remove someone from the game. It's not much different than when I told Micro on Day 1 that you being a death robot from the future wasn't a good enough reason to suspect you.

I am currently over 90% confident that trent is town. This is high enough confidence for me to cast an elect for him. As for why I am that confident, I think that I'm going to pause a bit here only because I've been putting my cards down on the table a lot so far. I am going to not throw absolutely every reason I have out there until at minimum one scum is investigated.

I am likewise confident now that you are scum. /disappointed

vote yog

Yogs seems to be the possible investigation. Would've liked seeing it be another lurker or maybe sceneflocke but we're almost being out of time. Also could we perhaps keeping talk of who is or isn't offended by other people's postings out of the game or to the minimum? I see enough of that kind of culture war junk on social medias.

Yeah, no. I wrote a post that was essentially made of three premises:

a) I'm sad you're not feeling well
b) You were mistaken when you thought I said your participation was low, I said the exact opposite (, anyone is welcome to check).
c) I'm certain that not one player in this game (whether town or scum) would ever want to harm other player's health to win, and you probably should look into those attacks you thought were meant to drive you away with a different set of eyes.

How you got that to mean I MUST be scum and that my intent was to shame you, I can't even imagine.

Oh BTW I skipped over the rest of the posts because I understand a player's wellbeing is more important than the game. Those other people can wait a bit more. But apparently I shouldn't have done that, because making a priority of attempting to help you... is scummy. Somehow.

Ah well, no one can fully control how others perceive the intent behind their actions. You probably will see this post as another proof that I'm not only scum, I'm evil enough to figuratively throw you (the person, rather than just the character on a game) off a cliff. Man will it be awkward when you look at this after the game.

Whatever. Moving on.

You haven't written it, no; but it is the lynchpin of your plan. It is absolutely useless unless Farky is at most 3 votes away from becoming pope.

Let's assume I had done exactly what you said and gathered all those votes electing Farky. You know Who decides not to jump on this train? Flocke, Trent, Catventurer and you. I suppose that means this is the 4 membered scumteam... no, of course not. At least one townie is in this list.
And this is what you're not comprehending (or are lying about): As long as at least one townie has made clear they don't feel confident in electing one townie cardinal, scum won't mind however many votes that cardinal gets.


You do know what the word "unanimous" mean, don't you? "Many" doesn't come close enough for your plan to create the slightest pressure.
(You're right, I missed Yogs)

At the risk of you somehow thinking me more scummy, I have learned to keep my guard up when I'm in the same game as Trent. I won't outright accuse him of being scum, but I won't be surprised if he is and I'm certainly not electing him unless it's on the verge of losing the game for mislynching one time too many.
Flocke did raise an interesting scenario for which you had no answer, didn't you think maybe that means there's a flaw in your plan?

Well I was thinkng of saying all this stuff soon-ish, might as well place it here. Not gonna talk about just Pooka but everyone.

1. Microfish ................ as Cardinal West ............... investigated and found guilty of Lust
Nice guy, but always wash your hands after shaking his.

2. Pooka ..................... as Cardinal Fortitude
Pooka has been... bland. Usually Pooka talks more, but this game he has not given much stuff that I could use to evaluate him. (OTOH who am I to complain?)
The argument with Scene looked TvT at first, then Scene started acting scummy, and it all amounted to nothing when Scene disappeared. I am somewhat miffed that after you replaced Scene Pooka starts hard against you but eventually calms down somewhat. I don't like that.
His votes don't come out as weird: D1 after RVS was Scene (which made sense since they were at each other's throat) and at D2 the hammer was understandable but he admitted that his target of choice was still Scene.

e. bucktoothgamer ..... as Cardinal Prudence
At first I thought he was flying under the radar. From D1 I thought he was scum with Micro, turns out he wasn't and after that... I can't place him at any major argument. The thing is, his posts have been giving me a townier vibe from mid D2 forward (like in #246).
Seeing #382 out of context looks like he is contradicting himself, but, really I wouldn't vote cat for now no matter how much of an effort she is making to appear scum lately. So I understand him.
Voting-wise, I'm not a fan. Hammering Micro was not ideal but it was either that or a NL. D2 voting cat and yog only to land on Fark at EoD... well neither of those wagons could lift off but still he was on both mislynches. D3 starts the same as D2, let's hope it doesn't end the same way.
In sum, feels townie for me.

3. mchack ................... as Cardinal East
I don't like his arguments lately. I don't think I need to show you that, you have seen us arguing. Has me really concerned if that plan to elect Trent really doesn't have ulterior motives.

Pi. A Future Pilot . Replaced by trentonlf........ as Cardinal North
I can't point at any of his posts and say it's proof of scumminess, but that's usual for Trent in every game. Including those where he is scum. Leans neutral, always.

4. yogsloth .................. as Cardinal Up
This is kinda weird. I've seen scum!yogs a long time ago, and it wasn't much like this. But he apparently doesn't have the time to play any different, I think? The problem is that he never gives much justification to his votes or opinions. Leans...all over the place.

5. supplementscene replaced by Flockeschnee ... as Cardinal Down
Scene started appearing Town, but it didn't last. Misrepresenting what Pooka said appeared super scummy. After you took his spot Cardinal Down is back to "probably town"

6. Fark ........................ as Cardinal South ................ investigated and found guilty of Envy
Cool guy, just don't let him see your new toys.

7. joppo ...................... as Cardinal Temperance
Salt of the Earth. Should be next pope.

42. Catventurer .......... as Cardinal Justice
Oh man what to say here.
Catv spent most of the game giving off a town-ish vibe. Lately however I don't see it anymore. I won't say more but you can see what were my latest exchange of messages like and draw your own conclusions.
Still, as scummy as she made herself appear in this Day, I'm not interested in voting her off because I consider she has been suffeing due to her health and air quality and that certainly can't impact her in any positive way. In case she is scum I don't want town to achieve a victory like that.

I hope this is enough.