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high rated
My fear is that this, or any form of moderation is too little too late. Before my long break, this forum was a completely different place and we have lost some funny, engaging, super generous people because of the state the forum is now in. At one time, I had a weekly giveaway, however I wouldn't dream of doing it now, I will gift in private. I have even stopped doing GOG giveaways after some1 send me a pm telling me I was feeding the trolls. This forum is "hard work" to even give a game away.

All that being said, I am still here :) Why ? - i enjoy seeing long time friends, and making the odd new friend who have proved they are more concerned with others, rather than what they can get for themselves.

I really hope GOG will finally take their thumb out of their *** and do something about alt accounts, but the majority of items suggested already in this thread, have been suggested many times before, with no action. I live in hope, but will not hold my breathe.

I do not have a solution and I sincerely wish the new CM well - let us see you take some action please, then we know you are not just a figure head.
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phaolo: For me there should be:
- simple warnings (always preferred for normal users).
- short bans for a few cases (e.g: 2 days) that increase only with intentionally repeated infractions.
- perma bans only in extreme cases (proved scammers, recurring harassing people)
I kind of agree with this. We need a progressive system where user can learn from their bad behavior.
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fables22: Again, good point, and I'm glad you guys understand this. It would be foolish of me to say that we are now making the forum our priority, because everyone knows that's not and never will be the case. But I think making resources available to at least have someone (sorry you're stuck with me! :)) try and re-ignite the discussion between GOG and the community is a good step forward by GOG. To put this bluntly, if they really did not care, I wouldn't be here either. So all we can do now is try and make the most of it.

So, selling games is always the priority. The community doesn't constitute a necessary part of the selling aspect, but it does sit well with what the ethics behind GOG is.
Can't alt accounts be merged forcefully or asked to provide identification if not alt? There needs to be some sort of way of filtering them out.
Post edited November 16, 2016 by blotunga
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Goodaltgamer: It seems that GOG is willing to let us choose our own rules instead of GOG making up their own list.
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nipsen: ..ok. From experience as mod on a forum where I eventually did not make a single moderator action for a year:

1. No Americans, sanctimonious jerks, virtual sheriffs or stupid people on the mod team. The reason for this is that when you start a campaign for a war on trolls, or set out to remove all problems, etc., you essentially attract them and create troll seeds where none existed before. Perfectly normal people lose their bloody mind when they get faced with something like this: "Hi!!! I'm a moderator!!!! Let's make the board a better place for everyone, yaayyyy!!!". Which is perfectly fucking understandable.

2. Talk to people like they are real people. Set the standard as a mod, and posters know what to expect. Technical rules in that sense are often worse than no rules, because you imply that as long as you can avoid the technicalities everything's fine, and all is forgiven. Conversely, when someone does get the brunt of the lawbook, or leaflet, or whatever, they don't feel punished either.

3. Have your "moderating action" discussions in public. The only reason you would want to make moderator discussions private is because you want to hide the fact that you're a stupid little shit with too much power and no ability to wield it. Like your average president of a certain country for the last 25 years at least. Just saying.

4. Discuss with "problem-people" in public. Don't pressure people into a corner, to make them prove at a critical junction that they can contribute to the overall forum, etc. Just talk to people like they're normal people, and that your demand of them are sensible. Sustain that by defending your demand, if any, and certainly your view - in public. And then admit you are wrong if your argument is not sufficient to defend your point of view. No one loses face that way, unless you're a sanctmonious dipshit. The problem is, of course, that you can't be a childish little moron who can't argue with anyone without screaming your head off. Which is the one problem you run into when recruiting mods - only idiots want to be mods.

5. Don't enable popularity contests. Remember: Even if it doesn't seem that way, or people look and act like they are 60 years old, and have actually retired and are literally sitting in a peaceful home by a lake somewhere counting swans - when they log on to the internet they are going to be an envious and frustrated 6 year-old again. Given encouragement, anyone will turn into a stupid sheep when they log on online. So as a mod, the last - the very last - thing you should do is say things like this: "let's have a poll on it to decide this". There is no subject of any kind that can be settled in a discussion forum with a poll outside: "how many people are here".

6. Look at an online forum in this way: it can potentially reach so many people that the ones who sign up may very well be the most brilliant people on the planet, with such a wide variety of skills and expertises, that there is no reason why not every single member here shouldn't be a genius. As opposed to "my gawd, this forum is free for everyone, I bet all the poor people will squat here".

7. Employ your mods to do something else than just moderating. In the military, you put people to dig trenches, or just holes in the ground, to stop them from doing any damage when they randomly trump around everywhere else. There's no point to it, but it keeps the soldiers busy and happy. Rather than sad and trigger-happy. This is exactly the same principle you need with moderators on a forum: have them work on digests or newsbits, small creative projects or discussion topics. Not only will it keep them out of trouble, it is also a way to let the community get to know the mods from a different angle than "obey me now, or face my wratthh!!".

Follow these simple rules, and I guarantee you that you will see the number of moderating actions drop, and the need for interference from moderators practically disappear. Which then of course also is tied to the mood on the board in the sense that people accept more outlandish opinion than they normally would. As well as state their opinions and views in a less provoking matter as before. The height of the roof becomes higher, to put it like that. Which should be easy to accept, since we don't even see people in real life.

The drawback with this process is that people who only enjoy trolling and ego-trip worship will have to go back to the comment fields on Kotaku again to get their fix. As the other community won't have any place for annoying dipshits like that.
Lol, why are you so hard on Americans?
I totally agree on the rest though especcially on the no-go for "hidden mod actions".
Post edited November 16, 2016 by Klumpen0815
No Americans? XD
Okay so I'm kind of at a loss for words on this one. XD

I can see that showing up on a GA down the road:

-Rep above 100
-Join date earlier than 2016
-No Americans
Post edited November 16, 2016 by tinyE
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nipsen: ..ok. From experience as mod on a forum where I eventually did not make a single moderator action for a year:
From experience as a mod on a major gaming forum where I had to ban a three digit number of members in a single year (2012, when the forum was flooded with minors interested in a game rated 18+), I would have to add to and/or refute the following things:

(1) I have nothing whatsoever against "American mods". There was one guy you probably would have called "virtual sheriff" in type, ex-military, with whom I went head-to-head on issues several times, but even we parted amicably. He didn't damage a thing because we mods acted as a team. All eleven of us.

(2) You can only set standards by enforcing them, i.e. moderator action. The GOG forum has rules, actually, it's just that hardly anyone knows them. Members learn here soon enough there's no need to respect them anyway. And that's a problem that has only one answer, sadly.

(3 + 4) Utter disagreement. If a mod bans someone after approaching the member on the forum publicly, all that happens are a whole lot of discussions by the other members whether the action was justified. And as they very seldom have the full picture*, they tend to come to the wrong conclusions; and regardless whether their conclusion is right or wrong, they either ostracize the moderator or the culprit. Neither is desirable. In the outrage culture of our present times, no, these discussions should absolutely not be public. The forum is not a courtroom, and if members had to agree with every mod decision, no mod decision would ever be made. Which basically explains why your "simple rules" let moderator actions drop: They prohibit moderation.

Besides, some member actions don't warrant discussion, they warrant an immediate ban. What is there to discuss with a member who proudly boasts having pirated the game that just came out? What exactly would moderators discuss with holocaust deniers? When the transgression is this clear cut, there's nothing sneaky about the quick goodbye.

(5) I have no idea what dire community issues a mod would ever want to decide with a public poll.

(6) It's not "the poor people" who "squat" here, but rather white supremacists actually. I'd welcome a few more poor people.

(7) The best way to 'waste the time' of voluntary moderators is to let them participate in community discussion, no?





* Appendix: Just some examples of proceedings that could warrant immediate moderator action even though the community knows and should know nothing about it or have a say in the matter:

Member found out to be a minor, member sent insulting/threatening emails/PMs to devs/mods or other community members, member doxed other members on the forum and the post was quickly deleted, member has been making alt accounts to terrorize forums, member has attempted to organize mass protest/harassment against single persons (post was of course deleted immediately), member has made threats to the developer in a way that police was sent to his house, member who spams the forums with 1000 alt accounts is an adult with extremely heavy OCD and the mod squad is in contact with his parents already, member used a glitch in the publisher's store to help himself to all the games for free with an alternate account, member posted links to piracy websites, member used alt accounts to spam the forum with injured animal sodomy, member used alt accounts to spam hentai pictures featuring a game's underage protagonist, etc.

All of those things I have personally witnessed. They constitute the overwhelming brunt of reasons why a ban was issued.
Post edited November 16, 2016 by Vainamoinen
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P1na: I'll bring my own minority credentials here, and say that as a Basque I'm used to my people being comically (and seriously) equated to terrorists and how nasty it can be when that jumps to real life and I get detained (at gunpoint, even!) by actual police just for my origin.
That sounded so fucking horrible - especially by goody-two-shoes EU standards - that I decided to google the word "basque" to find out more about the plight of your people.

This is what google search came up with... so thanks, I guess!
Attachments:
basque.jpg (378 Kb)
Post edited November 16, 2016 by fronzelneekburm
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Klumpen0815: Lol, why are you so hard on Americans?
I totally agree on the rest though especcially on the no-go for "hidden mod actions".
:p It's not a nationality I'm ragging on, it's a specific way of life and set of thinking. Many people who are not from the USA are that kind of Americans. Often even more than the vast majority of people from the US. Who, when you actually meet them, aren't like Americans at all, but just completely normal people like everyone else.
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nipsen: ..ok. From experience as mod on a forum where I eventually did not make a single moderator action for a year:
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Vainamoinen: (1) I have nothing whatsoever against "American mods".
Who cares about MODS, he just through a blanket over 300 million people! :P

nipsen, no one is more disgusted with this country right now than I am, and my recent behavior in here show that, but to make a generalization like that is beyond ignorant and you just went on my Shit List.
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Klumpen0815: Lol, why are you so hard on Americans?
I totally agree on the rest though especcially on the no-go for "hidden mod actions".
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nipsen: :p It's not a nationality I'm ragging on, it's a specific way of life and set of thinking.
So it's not them I'm ragging on, it's just everything about them. XD
AND WTF DOES THIS MEAN: "...just completely normal people like everyone else."

Okay, stop now. You're digging yourself into a hole you can't get out of. :P
Post edited November 16, 2016 by tinyE
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Goodaltgamer: dtgreene, isn't this already covered under sexual orientation?
[not dtgreene]
Nope.
Gender identity = what you say you are
Sexual orientation = who you would like to have sex with

To illustrate, small children don't have a sexual orientation but usually have a gender identity (can say whether they're a boy, a girl, or something else, or both).
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P1na: I'll bring my own minority credentials here, and say that as a Basque[..]
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fronzelneekburm: [..]I decided to google the word "basque" to find out more about the plight of your people.
This is what google search came up with... so thanks, I guess!
Those Basques seem quite sexy XD
Post edited November 16, 2016 by phaolo
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tinyE: Who cares about MODS, he just through a blanket over 300 million people! :P
Yeah, he did that. And it's not OK. And the clarifying post was even worse, big groan. I would still argue to take him off your shitlist again for the time being. To fully understand what happened in the States last week needs a whole damn lot of insight into the divided country. Not everyone has that. I have good friends in the US, I have family right down in the crimson states, and I can't say I fully understand it. Can we approach the prejudice without immediately ostracizing its distributor?
Post edited November 16, 2016 by Vainamoinen
1 - Remove the rep system. I've seen so many times "rep doens't matter since everyone knows each other" so i'm sure that won't be a problem, right?

2 - Remove the report spam option. If people don't want moderation then NO ONE should have that option, mobs or a single person with multiple accounts shouldn't be able to "moderate" the forum.

3 - (For the community) Abdicate the giveaways and trades, stop feeding the trash. I would be surprised at this point if somewhere in the internet there isn't someone advising to create a gog account to get free games. Create your own forum, get someone trustworthy to regulate it, invite only and voilá, half of the problems in this forum are gone.



And again, if the fundation isn't fixed first (the forum software) no way the building (the forum) will ever be fixed, too many problems could have been fixed by now if the RIGHT software was in place not to say that instead of waiting MONTHS for bug fixes it would probably take hours or a few days.
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nipsen: :p It's not a nationality I'm ragging on, it's a specific way of life and set of thinking. Many people who are not from the USA are that kind of Americans. Often even more than the vast majority of people from the US. Who, when you actually meet them, aren't like Americans at all, but just completely normal people like everyone else.
So you outlined a class of people defined by a set collection of (terrible) traits they share unrelated to nationality or race and decided to call this newly outlined class by the proper name of an existing nationality?

That's #adorable. I suggest you make sweet tender love to a vitamix.
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This thread right here, that's what I expect out of a good community manager. Stand up for your customers, interact with them if there are any problems with gog or the products gog is selling. Gog pretty much gave up on the interaction part after they decided to turn their backs on their flat-pricing-policy. There have been numerous changes since then and none of them have really been addressed in any official manner. People saying that this forum isn't what it used to be are correct, but they mix up cause and effect. Issues like regional locking, the often curious approach to curation (in-demand games getting refused while shovelware developed by people who only bother to keep their game up-to-date on Steam are let in seemingly by the droves), the utterly broken website, the ugly-ass design overhaul, the pitiful movies section,... were pretty much decided over users' heads. Gog used to have a decidedly more "democratic" feel to it, with people like The Enigmatic T or even head honcho Marcin frequently chiming in. It's not like gog users ever really had that much of a say about what goes on, but at least back in the day you got the feeling like your feedback was appreciated and gog cared about its customers.

So yeah, that's what I would like from a good community manager: give us back some of that vibe of pre-regional pricing gog instead of being a glorified forum janitor who's going to crush one of the last remaining vestiges of good old gog: the hands-off approach to moderation.
Post edited November 16, 2016 by fronzelneekburm
Well, yeah, bringing back the Enigmatic T would be a huge step in the right direction as well.

If you want to retain the "hands-off approach to moderation" however, go to 8chan, because that's where the GOG forum would be going anyway.
Post edited November 16, 2016 by Vainamoinen