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tammerwhisk: Also, I fail to see the issue with wanting to restrict illegal immigration.
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Kleetus: Neither do I, however, do you really think any of his promises would ever eventuate?
Does any candidate? Ever?

It's just a bunch of old fucks playing clubhouse deciding shit they aren't even qualified to talk about.
Post edited June 13, 2016 by tammerwhisk
I have severely disliked some - and do, in fact, the current Finnish president of the republic.

Because anyone shifting into "speaker of the parliament" role to remake themselves into a "father of a nation" is right old hypocrite. My memory serves, sorry, Niinistö.

I also severely dislike our current PM Sipilä, but I'd never say he is "dumb" - only he is assuming his previous business success had everything to do with his brilliance, and nothing with favourable conditions. He is learning better now to his expense, but at least he has millions.

So from Finland, none. The right wingers love the ones I dislike - but I dare think all of us think all of them have been servants of a national democracy.


From Europe maybe Tony Blair?

He had intelligence at his disposal, he had a parliament to challenge him, and European tradition to tell him that war was a terrible "solution." Yet none of this stopped him.
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Epitaph666: So we've had dumb leaders, dumb ministers on ministries, but i think Mr. Tsipras takes the prize hands down

some evidence below
A pic of persons taking a photo?

For Art Basel you need a sponsor sorry! ;-)

And substantially, what is so "dumb" about Tsipiras? In context of his de facto rather constrained position, I'd be curious which policy concretely you know well enough to challence! Or several?

And then comes suggesting at least equal ones. (not even better) Any ideas there you care to share? :-)
I'd watch the "Abbot and Blair" show on TV. Tony and Tony complain about how they're more misunderstood than the other one. So basically, it'd be like a tv-series where the world tends to blow up every episode - but then by the end of the episode everything is back to normal, so they can do it again next time. And they never learn, and they just make the same mistakes, and blame everyone else, because clearly they are not at fault.

It'd be like a hopeful fable. "Sure, your mistakes may potentially have ramifications that could destroy the earth. But one day your bumbling clumsiness will succeed, and roses will sprout out of your bum!".
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TStael: I also severely dislike our current PM Sipilä, but I'd never say he is "dumb" - only he is assuming his previous business success had everything to do with his brilliance, and nothing with favourable conditions.
Has he suggested somewhere so? I think he is a good role model for all the lazy Finnish bums that sometimes you have to get off your butt and start working hard, trying to be inventive, feel passion for it etc. There's far too much passivity and fatalism in Finland nowadays, people being inactive, frozen in place, waiting for the society to take care of them because somehow we just are entitled to our high living standards even if we didn't work at all for it?

Unlike Trump, he didn't inherit his millions, but made them with inventions and hard work. Say what you will, but that is exactly the kind of spirit Finland needs more. Much more.

My complaints towards Sipilä are mainly that he is too rooted to defend the farmers and forest owners due to his party, even making quite stupid claims that it makes economic sense to e.g. disperse people, bureaus and universities all over the map. It does not, urbanization is the natural development, he is fighting against it.

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TStael: He is learning better now to his expense, but at least he has millions.
I think the main thing he has learned is that he (and the government) has surprisingly little power to make any real decisions that affect the economy. It is the labor unions that have most of the power in Finland. After all, this current "kilpailukykysopimus" (competitiveness agreement, which is supposed to make Finnish work more competitive for international investments), the government could only look at it from the side and hope that the labor unions get into some kind of agreement over it. Apparently they finally did even though at first many unions vowed not to participate in it, just because they disliked the "right-wing" government that is in power.

France seems to be in similar pain too, there the socialist president is apparently forcing some kind of new legislation that affect the French workers, and the unions are on strike due to it. At least in France's case they can't claim it is the "right-wing government" that is putting down the poor workers, can they?
Post edited June 13, 2016 by timppu
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Epitaph666: So we've had dumb leaders, dumb ministers on ministries, but i think Mr. Tsipras takes the prize hands down

some evidence below
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TStael: A pic of persons taking a photo?

For Art Basel you need a sponsor sorry! ;-)

And substantially, what is so "dumb" about Tsipiras? In context of his de facto rather constrained position, I'd be curious which policy concretely you know well enough to challence! Or several?

And then comes suggesting at least equal ones. (not even better) Any ideas there you care to share? :-)
Nice attittude there. Being a smartass and all that.

But ok let me asnwer your questions.

Esentially almost every promise he made to the Greek voters up untik 6 months ago, he broke.
I remember the gigantic reactions of him and his company when Greece entered the IMF and he was 100% against any sell of public unused properties (like the old airport on Elliniko and a lot of others). Esentially he was the main force that dragged the country back from earning a LOT more money back then and entering. After 1 year of this i remember reporters saying that these properties lost 3/4 of their value. And that was 2011.
Yet he's the one that sold them all now.

The bullshit part is a huge one, promising stuff that he thought or (much worse) knew he couldn't achieve is a constant characteristic of this government.

My English is not that good to translate all the wrongs of this government. It doesn't matter anyway cause that wasn't the point of this thread. Unable and incompetent people all over the place. People that were working on the public domain and were caught with fake high school degrees , are not taken out, but receive just a pat in the back and keep their jobs, while others with years spent in universities are unemployed.
They keep giving jobs to their friends like this case :

http://www.tovima.gr/opinions/article/?aid=781436

which was a friend of Tsipras and this year was put in a position of Chief Strategy Officer (i think this is the title). His previous jobs? He was an unemployed teacher and he worked as a waiter.

But i think everything can be brought down to a simple thing. Someone that uses more than 3 exclamation marks on his senteces has some sort of sickness :

http://www.parapolitika.gr/sites/default/files/karaninas2.jpg

btw. To answer in your second question "What are my policies / ideas". Here they are :
We should keep the old goverment. No matter how much i hated them for being corrupt all the other years, i agreed 100% with their position "cut expenses for 1-2 more years".
The greek people voted Tsipras cause they believed that we'd reached the bottom of the barrel and that things could not be worse. That's what you get when you have illiterate fools and people that prefer theories that satisfy their fantasy but are not supported by logic
Post edited June 13, 2016 by Epitaph666
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TStael: A pic of persons taking a photo?

For Art Basel you need a sponsor sorry! ;-)

And substantially, what is so "dumb" about Tsipiras? In context of his de facto rather constrained position, I'd be curious which policy concretely you know well enough to challence! Or several?

And then comes suggesting at least equal ones. (not even better) Any ideas there you care to share? :-)
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Epitaph666: Nice attittude there. Being a smartass and all that.

But ok let me asnwer your questions.

Esentially almost every promise he made to the Greek voters up untik 6 months ago, he broke.
I remember the gigantic reactions of him and his company when Greece entered the IMF and he was 100% against any sell of public unused properties (like the old airport on Elliniko and a lot of others).
Yet he's the one that sold them all now.

btw. To answer in your second question "What are my policies / ideas". Here they are :
We should keep the old goverment. No matter how much i hated them for being corrupt all the other years, i agreed 100% with their position "cut expenses for 1-2 more years".
I did ask sincere. Not least because I think Greece has not been treated with much European solidarity.

I've read of stories of very young people selling their bodies cheap because they are hungry and precarious in Athens. This is SO wrong - the ideal of Greece that EU felt necessary to incorporate was not that of slavery.

Greece was maybe taken into EU on ideological grounds - to stop the "cradle of European civilisation" from falling unto anarchy or fascism - but this should not have extended unto Euro. A monetary zone is technocratic foremost, ideological second - as EU is now learning to its cost.

Because I somewhat think my country (Finland) maybe would do better outside of the Euro-zone - and has the worst government of my entire life, because being so right-wing. I quite sympathize with your frustration.

But unless the old government was willing to dis-engage Euro-zone, it is hard for me to see which greater latitude they might have exercised vs Tsipiras.

But if you think modz in Europe think young persons or even children selling their bodies for a sandwich because they are hungry and precarious is fine, it is not so. Some buy, and they are horrendous.

But how to make this a TTIP sort of protest?
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TStael: snip
First of all, sorry for misunderstanding your intentions.

Secondly, i've not heard nor read about this "young kids being prostituted". As i googled that just now, the first 7-8 results were about some incidents that supposedly happened inside one of the refugee camps in Ellinico and was reported by the mayor of that city.

Last time i remember reading about people getting into prostitution, because of the crisis were just a few years ago and that was about some University students that "could not pay their bills".

I don't say that this problem does not exist. I'm just saying that i'm not aware of that problem being that massive. I'm sure that there are cases that this happens and it also makes me sick (pedophiles always were the most weird and twisted people for me).

Now i understand that the EU for some reason forces laws that i understand are for the benefit of all countries, but shouldn't they take measures in protecting their member countries first?
I mean stuff like this

http://www.euractiv.com/section/agriculture-food/news/eu-expands-tunisian-olive-oil-imports-ahead-of-trade-talks/

how something like that is in favor of an agricultural country (like Greece)? It's not! To me this is all BS. They say "fix your laws, increase your goddamn production" , but they are the ones that cut down our exports. This was only one example.

Now i don't think Greece getting out of the EU (and consequently out of the Eurozone ---> out of the coin named Euro), would help Greece in the short term. And i don't believe it would in the long term. If we had the same worthless people governing the country we'd never be able to create production inside our borders.
Instead we create production for other, cheaper neighbour countries by pushing away the people that want to create businesses. Just cause of our own incompetence and will to believe satisfying lies instead of hard naked truths.

What bugs me though is this : we had many (and i do mean many) people believing that going again into our own coin (drachma) would be AWESOME for Greece and it'd take maximum 4-5 years to be great again (which would not happen anyway but still...).
Those same people were ready to face great hardships and were quoting times of great pain and misery for Greece that the majority of people were killing rats and cats to feed, but were not at all ready to have 1-2 years of the same taxes we had in 2013 and 2014...
And they voted for Tsipras : A party that promised to make the European Leaders cry and "Rip the memorandums" but "stay inside Eurozone at the same time".
I mean how fucking stupid can one whole group of people be to vote for such a crazy party?

Yet here we are...
I've read it in Guradian, Indy and Iltalehti. But more than source critical stance, it is a moral one. When poverty forces anyone unto selling themselves bodily against their will, the society has failed.

I somewhat think, though, you should be your local promise anything out of government supporter- or you are, and seek justification?

Those parties promise a lot, very easily - because they never imagine actual democratic duty,

See Finland. Our version of racist party went unto government. I don't think they really wanted to, but gladly they did, because they had to, based on electoral gain.

The contrast between promise and power is about 8%. But I really think we had to suffer it to push that party unto opposition.