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kohlrak: I'm not even going to deny you're right to some degree. But, frankly, who would you rather have as a boss? The one who created the Wuhan Virus situation? Is it the one who oppresses a particular group of people based upon their race? Or, more on point, do you prefer the one who encouraged individual rights even where they weren't wanted, or do you prefer censorship even where it isn't wanted? Don't get me wrong, neither is going to be innocent of bloodshed, but which of the two is more likely to lead to more bloodshed?
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lace_gardenia: everything i ever needed to know about us foreign policy i learned on 9/11, 1973
First time i've heard this one, but given the influences involved (primarily the CIA which was founded by communists, which throws a whole wrench in this explanation of things, as well as alot of other US conflicts), i'm not surprised. I have a good feeling there's still alot about this one that hasn't been revealed, and just might never be revealed.
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Shameful cowardly move from a company that is supposed to be "The Rebels".

Your ancerstors, Mr. Karwowski (GOG's managing director) are no doubt spinning in their graves at fast enough speeds to generate energy.

And I would like to state, that, in fact, Taiwian is Number One, Japan is Numer Two i na drzewach zamiast liści będą wisieć komuniści.
Still no further news from GOG, sigh...

So... I do want to ask, does anyone know if Tim Sweeney knows about Devotion?

I mean Red Candle can try Epic Store, since Time Sweeney said Tencent has zero input into their business.

This game should not impact any Epic Store Sales...Right?
Post edited December 23, 2020 by junk11
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What the controversy was originally about

The game included the following text:

"习近平" / "小熊维尼" [Simplified characters]
"習近平" / "小熊維尼" [Traditional characters]
'Xi Jinping' / 'Winnie-the-Pooh'

The text was written in seal script. It's an ancient way of writing, still occasionally in use but not really easy to read. The shape of the characters is very different, which you can see for yourself comparing the text above to the screenshots below. (It's more similar to traditional characters, which is why I included them.)

The text was in a seal (screenshot 1), on a poster (screenshot 2), on one of the walls in a certain room in the game (screenshot 3). I think even without being able to read Chinese everyone can make up their own mind how serious of a problem this was in the first place.

The game was released on February 19, 2019.

The poster was replaced on February 21, 2019, i.e. 2 days later.

That was 671 days ago as of today.
Attachments:
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Turbo-Beaver: What the controversy was originally about
Thanks for laying it out so clearly. The obvious takeaway then is that the CCP is petty and vindictive, GOG were cowards, and far too many people continue to pooh-pooh (pun genuinely not intended) the concept of slippery slopes far too easily.
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I don't care if it's snowflakes from the right wanting to ban SJW games or snowflakes from the left trying to ban racist games. I. Don't. Want. Games. Banned.

As someone who's grandparents survived the holocaust (just barely) I never asked for games featuring Nazi symbols (or fuck it, even glorying Nazis) to be banned. And I sure and hell don't want Devotion to be banned from GOG. If Chinese gamers are so triggery on someone calling their supreme leader Winnie ther Pooh, maybe they need to sit the fuck down and breathe.

Also, Screw China. Bring Devotion to GOG.com
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[deleted]
Post edited February 12, 2023 by lace_gardenia
Hey, GOG/CDPR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YIJQ1jgEI
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AmethystViper: Hey, GOG/CDPR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0YIJQ1jgEI
It took less than a day to bring down a game because of "many messages from gamers", but it has been several weeks since famous streamers, news sites, and gamers have been complaining, and they've said anything. It's like they weren't satisfied with mocking our intelligence and decided to continue laughing in our face while doubling down on it.
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The game I.G.I. 2: Covert Strike was banned in China.

From Wikipedia:
The game's plot features a rogue Chinese General, Wu Xing as the primary antagonist.
And China Daily (newspaper run by the Communist Party's Propaganda Dept.):
The State Press and Publication Administration (SPPA) said the game has [...] hurt China's national dignity and interests.

All copies of the game, said SPPA sources, are illegal and will be recovered. The game's publishers, producers and sellers in the country will be punished according to law.
Unlike Devotion, this game was actually banned with an administrative decision. Yet it was never a problem for GOG. The game was released and has always been available since:

https://www.gog.com/game/i_g_i_2_covert_strike

How come? Most likely GOG just never announced this on Weibo, so the kind of people who would typically complain simply didn't know.

Credit for this information: samuraigaiden's post
Post edited December 24, 2020 by Turbo-Beaver
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Turbo-Beaver: How come? Most likely GOG just never announced this on Weibo, so the kind of people who would typically complain simply didn't know.
Yes. "Many gamers" didn't find out the game is here yet. Don't worry folks, it will be removed when the CCP deal goes through.
Post edited December 24, 2020 by Zorzy
As a Chinese gamer we are able to tell the difference artistic creations and intentional offenses. Gamers don't always agree with government on bans. For example, Chinese gamers are extremely upset by government's decision to forbid easytech's titles to include sino-japan war contents where player can side with Japan and occupy China. But for devotion, it will be a different story. We respect red candles right to express their political views, just stop taking the platform hostage. Let's kick politics out of the platform.

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Turbo-Beaver: The game I.G.I. 2: Covert Strike was banned in China.

From Wikipedia:

The game's plot features a rogue Chinese General, Wu Xing as the primary antagonist.
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Turbo-Beaver: And China Daily (newspaper run by the Communist Party's Propaganda Dept.):

The State Press and Publication Administration (SPPA) said the game has [...] hurt China's national dignity and interests.

All copies of the game, said SPPA sources, are illegal and will be recovered. The game's publishers, producers and sellers in the country will be punished according to law.
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Turbo-Beaver: Unlike Devotion, this game was actually banned with an administrative decision. Yet it was never a problem for GOG. The game was released and has always been available since:

https://www.gog.com/game/i_g_i_2_covert_strike

How come? Most likely GOG just never announced this on Weibo, so the kind of people who would typically complain simply didn't know.

Credit for this information: samuraigaiden's post
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jimmybupt: As a Chinese gamer...
Can you have a word with GOG? Seems they don't like communicating with their non-Chinese userbase
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jimmybupt: As a Chinese gamer we are able to tell the difference artistic creations and intentional offenses. Gamers don't always agree with government on bans. For example, Chinese gamers are extremely upset by government's decision to forbid easytech's titles to include sino-japan war contents where player can side with Japan and occupy China. But for devotion, it will be a different story. We respect red candles right to express their political views, just stop taking the platform hostage. Let's kick politics out of the platform.
Artistic creation and intentional offenses are not exclusionary and are very compatible.
Red Candle Games didn't take the platform hostage. It's Winnie the Pooh (yes, I'll keep calling him that since he deserves no respect from anyone) that did that. If CDPR wanted they could have just published the game with regional lock for China. So I, from a country half a globe away, that has nothing to do with his dictatorial ego trips, could enjoy the game. Also the meme was removed only days after it was discovered, and that was a year and a half ago.
Yes, Let's kick politics out of the platform, the game should be released on which ever platform it wants to be released. But we all know this won't happen due to Pooh (as I have little hope it'll be released on Zoom too).
Post edited December 24, 2020 by Zorzy
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jimmybupt: As a Chinese gamer we are able to tell [...]
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jimmybupt: We respect red candles right to express their political views [...]
Who do you mean by "we?"

Maybe it's my misunderstanding but it sounds like an assumption on your part that any Chinese person (any Chinese gamer) is bound to have the same opinion on these issues.

But could it be that most people just don't care about it enough to say anything, so the only opinions we get to hear are from those who feel very strongly about this issue, who however might be just a very vocal minority? This would roughly be the same mechanism as any "Twitter storm."

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jimmybupt: intentional offenses
So I take it you consider the game offensive?

What exactly was offensive about it? Just the poster on the wall, or did you find something else in it objectionable as well?

Presuming it's just about the poster, is the game still offensive after the content was removed (nearly 2 years ago as of now)?

If yes, what would have to happen (what would the developers have to do) to make the game no longer offensive? Or is there nothing they can do at this point anymore?

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jimmybupt: But for devotion, it will be a different story.
It is a different story already because IGI 2 was banned administratively, and it's apparently against the law to distribute it in China. As far as I know, Devotion wasn't. So it was always just a matter of some people (many people perhaps) having a negative sentiment towards it. (Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

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jimmybupt: just stop taking the platform hostage. Let's kick politics out of the platform.
I agree. As a matter of fact that's what I've been saying all along. Businesses shouldn't become entangled in political activism. Whether the game should be sold in China or not is up to the Chinese people to decide. That GOG forced the announcement on them failing to consider the local sensitivities (regardless of whether anyone considers them substantiated) was a political decision that put their Chinese social-media followers in the untenable position when if they didn't say anything, it would look like an endorsement. The response was entirely predictable.

Would you say though that the Chinese people who protested against the re-release of the game in China would want to see it banned worldwide? Or just not sold in China? Or maybe even wouldn't mind it being sold in China as long as it wasn't advertised to them?

I appreciate your opinions on all this. It's good to be able to see things from a different perspective.