Heya,

Would GoG consider accepting BitCoin payments ? (http://www.weusecoins.com/, http://www.bitcoin.org/ , an exchange is available at http://www.mtgox.com/ and elsewhere).

BitCoin is a so-called cryptocurrency, i.e. not tied to regular currencies other than through exchanges, and backed by computing cycles. It is international and growing at a rapid rate. Anonymous payments are possible.

If GoG were to accept such payments, they could convert them into USD, EUR, or what have you at their convenience on an exchange (or via services like CoinCard etc). The upside for customers is that no credit card or bank account are required (although it is possible to buy BitCoins via these methods) -- and since gamers often have reasonably recent graphics cards, they could start mining BitCoins (http://mining.bitcoin.cz/ is a pool and has a decent amount of resources on this), effectively providing them with "free" (=time and cost of electricity) BitCoins they could in turn invest in GoG games.

Since the exchange rate of BTC to USD is not fixed, prices would either have to marked up a bit or current exchange rates gotten off of the major exchanges. There would be some coding required, but the process is reasonably simple. Depending on the volume of BitCoin payments at GoG.

I would definitely buy a few games with BitCoins -- and it would a whole new level of cool to GoG :-)

Maybe others have some thoughts on this.

My only thought is... not likely. There is a reason GOG only accepts the payment methods they do: their near universal acceptance and use. Additionally, there is a reason GOG doesn't futz with exchange rates or anything: ease of use. Accepting a "cryptocurrency" adds a level of complication to their very simple system that is not necessary and and is quite frankly, very risky. Maybe in 5 to 10 years if cryptocurrencies like BitCoin take off, it would be less risky and worth it, but right now, they'd be better off sticking with established banking systems.

Worth a try, particularly given the rather unique nature of Bitcoins I agree that the conversion adds a level of complexity -- but /only/ for people who choose to pay in BitCoins (it could be an option offered at checkout).

You say it is "very" risky; there is risk in any business involved, but the risk here is not quite as bad as you make it out to be (I would go so far as to say that it is probably below the risk of fraudulent transactions that GoG currently faces with their other options). At the same time there is also opportunity here; if it does not work out, it does not work out and gets removed. If it does work out, GoG could have an increased revenue stream and thus profit.

When you say that the current payment methods are nearly universally accepted and used, that is simply untrue. It may be somewhat true for the US market, but even just moving to Europe it ceases to be so. Additionally especially younger gamers often do not have access to a credit card -- while I am not saying that they currently have a BitCoin wallet, the hurdles to get one are a WHOLE lot lower.

Indeed, there's a reason why some retailers in Europe have multiple accounts so that they can take payment in several currencies. They then drain the accounts based upon what the most favorable exchange rate is at any given time.

Not true, it also adds complexity to GOG's end of the transaction as well, since their payment processor would have to deal with converting the coins paid to real currency, assuming they even have the infrastructure in place to deal with that. Difference being, established banking systems already have processes in place to deal with fraud, which protects both the consumer and GOG. Bitcoins cannot make that same claim at all which opens GOG to being potential victims of or even unwilling participants in fraud. How does the "universal acceptance" cease to be so in Europe? Mastercard and Visa both exist in Europe. In fact, the majority of Mastercard's business is actually outside the US and Visa is the largest debit card issuer in all of Europe. I can see how PayPal is not universal, but the credit/debit cards they accept? No way.

Considering that most of Europe uses the Euro currency, this would only apply to edge-cases.

The system ate my reply, so please forgive if I repeat it :) I was looking at the complexity on the customer-facing side, not so much the backend; considering this would be a separate payment processor/method, I'd say that it is neither here or there. Well considering BitCoin payments are irrevocable, chargebacks or such are a non-issue. The threat- and risk-models for BTC are different from Credit Cards or such (being a currency), with different trade-offs -- although the risks align pretty well with those of actual cash (your wallet in your pocket gets stolen). This is not GoG's concern though. First of all, you said acceptance and use -- and the use case is quite different. Sure they exist here, but for day to day transactions other forms of payments are used far more often -- in Germany and some other countries for instance, you'll see a lot more use of Maestro cards or cash before you see a credit card being used -- many people do not have a credit cards even though it would be easy for them to get one. There is no pressing need. eBay payments are often-as-not done with wire transfers instead of, say, PayPal (our wire transfer system is actually useful compared to some of the US schemes). I know many people personally who could not buy at GoG due to these constraints -- and would likely not do it through PayPal considering that is a pain in the neck compared to other forms of payment when you do not have a CC to back it. Heck, you can't even assume to be able to pay with a credit card in a given supermarket, restaurant, or venue, let alone smaller shops.

The other aspect I talked about was mining coins yourself (which would align pretty well with gamers' hardware). For instance, a HD6990 setup

Heck, currently people with a HD6990 card can average 50 BTC in 6 days on average, 17 days with 95% certainty currently. (http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php ; a HD6990 with a good miner can surpass 700 MHash/s at full load). Even subtracting power used, this could free up capital to buy more GoG games. This value proposition will change over time. People could then go to http://coincard.ndrix.com/ and convert that into PayPal balance -- at a convenience deduction -- and then buy GoG games using that -- in which case GoG is leaving a chunk of money on the table (or rather, giving it to CoinCard and PayPal in transaction fees).

I only have one or two things to add: First of all, Maestro is Mastercard (owned and operated) and both Visa and Mastercard are not just credit cards, they are also the processors of debit transactions. You don't need a credit card to buy from GOG, you just need a card of any type with the Visa/Mastercard (or Maestro) logo on it. This is what I meant by "near universal acceptance and use", not that everyone has a credit card, just that nearly everyone who has a bank account has a card that will work with GOG because Visa and Mastercard pretty much own the banking system.

Well, try paying with a Maestro card at GoG and see how far you get ;-) Sorry, no. I cannot pay with my bank-issued Maestro card at GoG. I can definitely not pay with any non-Maestro bank-issued cards either (which work at ATMs).

I realize Visa/MC do debit and a whole lot of other products too, but while they are big players, their use and acceptance is not anywhere near as universal as they are in the US and as their ads want you to believe.

And yeah, this is getting messy. I appreciate your input, yet won't give up hope that GoG will pick up accepting BitCoins in the not-so-far future.

No, they are pretty nearly universal, the payment processors and banks are simply allowed some leeway in this area (i.e. they're not required to process payments that don't conform to their rules). I used to write banking software for credit cards, trust me when I say that when Visa or MC say jump even the biggest, douchiest banks ask how high.

If you can't pay for games on GOG it is purely your bank, or the bank who processes your bank's CC accounts (the dirty secret of all small banks is they don't do this themselves, it's always farmed out to the big guys).

You misunderstand -- if I have a MC or Visa card of course it is not a problem (usually). But most people here do not /have/ a CC or debit card like that. The bank-issued cards you use at ATMs or at POSs are definitely not on the MC/Visa network (you cannot use them at GoG or elsewhere). I know MC/Visa are big, for better or worse. But they are not universally used, especially not to the extent as you see in the US.

No. Because it would be selling games for nothing.

That is simply not true. Unless your debit card is from a bank that is not in any way connected to the global banking networks (not possible) it is seen by payment processors as either a Visa or Mastercard (or one of their derivatives like Maestro). If you can't use the card to buy things at all, then it is not a debit card, it is simply an ATM card. If your card is an actual debit card and it cannot be used here or other places, then that is not because Visa/MC are not universally accepted, it is because your bank has rules that are preventing you from using it everywhere (far more common than you would think).

Look on the back of all your cards, see anything in common?

Obviously I'm not claiming chip and PIN systems work exactly like credit cards.

It is a Maestro. Considering it has 11 digits, fat chance of using it here, wouldn't you say? Yet I can use it at any supermarket, restaurant, POS, ATM of mine and any other Bank. I can definitely not use it here. Which is fine, and the point. It is a quite different product. It does not matter what you say, point is that 99% of German bank account holders will not be able to use their card to pay here -- UNLESS they specifically buy/obtain a Visa/MC card from their bank. Which is not the default. Which is what I have been saying for a while. I know that Visa/MC is accepted here. It is not that kind of card. Period.

Sorry, that is not true. It is a currency, and it is far from nothing. Considering I can sell my BitCoins for USD at an exchange right now, they even have a rather specific value in dollars. Currencies have the value we assign to them. I realize that GoG quite likely wants dollars in their wallet, which is not a problem at all, given the exchanges. GoG would get money for the game all the same.