You can't have played many games if you seriously think Fallout 1 and 2 are the WRPGs with best combat. Well, at least F2 didn't have Ian and his little friend giving you extra ventilation.

I thought we're looking at games as a whole, not just at combat. Or am I wrong? It'd be nice if Time4Tea would address this.
I love Fallout, but combat was never the highlight of the series.

Hmm...yes, it's possible I misunderstood what the OP meant.

Great choice!

The tactical combat system is easy to learn, the game is not very long, and the universe and characters are top notch. The other games in the series are already very good, but Dragonfall is nothing short of great.

Yes, I thought I had clarified that earlier in the thread that I was primarily looking for good WRPGs that have turn-based combat, rather than 'WRPGs with the best turn-based combat'. To me, an RPG is about more than just the combat, so I was curious about the best overall WRPGs.

In terms of 'best turn-based combat', of the ones I've played I would probably say Temple of Elemental Evil or Divinity: Original Sin.

Battle Chasers is based on an American comic series though, so if anything, it's a Western cartoon RPG.

That's always the big question though - are genre names to be taken as something literal and descriptive or more as something historical that points to a certain tradition? For me grouping games by similar mechanics makes more sense than to look at the nationality of the developers or the source material it's based on. Personally I would classify games like Costume Quest, Child of Light, South Park: The Stick of Truth, or Undertale as closer to the JRPG than the WRPG genre, due to their mechanics, even though they were made in the West. And I perceive games like Dragon's Dogma, Prince of Qin, and maybe Dark Souls as closer to WRPGs, despite being created in Asia. But YMMV.

I am not a fan of turn-based combat but Larian's turn-based combat in the Divinity: Original Sin games is fantastic. Definitely the best turn-based system out there.

As far as I'm concerned the terms are strictly about the gameplay, regardless of where they were developed... Though I'd be tempted to say that the term JRPG describes a particular style, while WRPG tends to describe an RPG that's not an JRPG.
Septerra Core seems to me as a perfect example of a JRPG developed in the West.

Zeboyd games, they are retro style, and comedy based, the last game, Cosmic Star Heroine had a good reception. I found the combat strategy entertaining. A true love letter to the JRPGs of SNES era.

It seems odd to define it that way, with WRPGs being "everything else". One thing is that, as a rule, WRPGs are significantly more complicated than WRPGs.

For example, if you drop an item, typically:
* In a JRPG, the item will just disappear. That's if the game lets you; some JRPGs lack the ability to drop items, instead giving you an infinitely large inventory that never fills up (and there's no encumbrance mechanic, either).
* In a WRPG, the item will remain on the ground, and you can pick it up again later. (How much later depends. Wizardry 8 has items remaining on the ground forever, while in Ultima 6 "transient items" (typically items that don't exist at the start of the game and aren't quest items) will disappear if you leave the area.)

Encumbrance is another thing you find in WRPGs but not JRPGs. Also, WRPGs have fancier dialog interactions.

In fact, you could reasonably say that WRPGs have more of everything than JRPGs. (Watch out, however: this includes bugs! In particular, game-breaking bugs are *much* more common in WRPGs, mainly because the game has to keep track of more stuff, particularly outside of combat (including stuff related to main quest progression), which leads to a bigger surface for bugs. JRPG bugs, on the other hand, usually relate to things like combat or stat growth.)

There are, of course, games that straddle the line; the Romancing SaGa games are my favorite example here, and there's also Unlimited SaGa. (SaGa Frontier 1 and 2, especially 2, are a bit more on the JRPG side.)

I'd say a key distinction with WRPGs is that they are often trying to simulate the experience of a tabletop RPG, such as D&D. Which is why they tend to be more complicated than JRPGs. They also usually feature character creation at the start, rolling for stats etc., which is usually the first step in a tabletop RPG. There is also often a focus on 'dice rolling'.

JRPGs generally don't seem to be trying to replicate a tabletop experience. They are more rooted in manga/anime works and based on translating those into a video game. So, I see them as coming from different places, with different intentions.

I would consider those JRPGs. Even if they weren't developed in Japan, their style seems more JRPG than WRPG. They look like great games.

Interestingly enough, Akitoshi Kawazu, director of the SaGa series, has stated that his intention with some of the games is to re-create that tabletop roleplaying experience, or at least that he's been influenced by that. And, in fact, he succeeded, so even though the combat is very JRPG-like, and the growth systems used are rather unusual, one could convincingly argue that at least some of the SaGa games could count as WRPGs in this respect.

Unlimited Saga even has slot machine reels appearing at times that, in a table top RPG, a dice roll would be expected, not to mention that the exploration aspect resembles a board game. (I still have yet to play the game, though I should probably mention that this particular game is an acquired taste.)

JRPG is a subgenre, but wrpg is not.


Dragon Quest was based on Ultima III: Exodus and the combat of Wizardry. This and later similar games (Phantasy Star, Final Fantasy) were:

-Strongly related to manga and anime style, both narrative and concept art design. Dragon Quest was announced in the Shounen Jump. Classic Final Fantasy (before Nomura) can be considered an exception.

-Most jrpg have been related to consoles (with a few exceptions like Falcom games), while CRPG after Ultima V not worked well on consoles for a long time. Only Dungeon Crawlers like Wizardry were frequent in consoles and similar games were developed both by japanese and eastern developers.

-And finally aimed to a more juvenile audience. The exceptions were japanese Dungeon Crawlers, but dungeon crawlers (developed both in japan and the west) can be considered a different subgenre than jrpg and the isometric crpgs as they have their own properties.