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pmcollectorboy: You certainly live up to your username. Not sure if the emphasis should be placed on the greasy or on the dogmeat.
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GreasyDogMeat: If you can't respond to the points attack the person.
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louitrilobite: What! There is no correlation between pedophilia and gender dysphoria, one involves abusing children, which how ever abhorrent I or you may find it, is a moral issue, the other is a sense of identity.
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GreasyDogMeat: I never suggested there was a correlation between the two. The point was how these issues are being forced on society. It is one thing to preach tolerance... something I actually practice... believe it or not. It is another to force things on people, like surgeries on fucking children who will end up killing themselves in adulthood because their lives have been ruined by radical progressive clueless parents. And no I'm not suggesting you are one of those.
It's not an issue and it's not being forced on anyone.

I'm glad you preach tolerance : )

I also don't think we should be doing gender reassignment on children, I live in the UK and that is not a thing, there is a long process of assessment before that happens, is there anywhere that does reassignment on children?

I think (in fact I'm pretty sure) that there are more trans kids that kill them selves than post op adults.
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louitrilobite: It's not an issue and it's not being forced on anyone.
Get back to me in 5-10 years.

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louitrilobite: I'm glad you preach tolerance : )

I also don't think we should be doing gender reassignment on children, I live in the UK and that is not a thing, there is a long process of assessment before that happens, is there anywhere that does reassignment on children?

I think (in fact I'm pretty sure) that there are more trans kids that kill them selves than post op adults.
Is this incorrect then?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4743036/800-children-young-10-puberty-blockers.html
In fairness the site looks... dodgy.

As for suicide rates...
http://thefederalist.com/2015/08/19/transgender-regret-is-real-even-if-the-media-tell-you-otherwise/

The problem with the issue is that it has become political... when things become political facts get... dodgy. I generally suspect the truth to lie somewhere in the middle.
They kill themselves because of intolerance of the religious sort and other sundry kinds of hardline morality policing that make them feel like abominations instead of different ways of being a person. Even now, scientists are still struggling to figure out what is causing the rise in autism, but we have keyboard warriors acting like they've already figured it out and toss around the term as an epithet like yesteryear's use of the word "virgin".
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Arundir: I am totally on your side if this would be pushed by transgender people to be more accepted or have a denoted place, but the pronoun game is mainly and very loudly pushed with pseudo science by progressives(some also transgender) with a lot of ideological baggage you buy into by accepting it. I have nothing against a "They" in a game, but I have something against a political agenda in a game.
This. The trans issue has been hijacked by extreme leftists with an agenda.
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pmcollectorboy: They kill themselves because of intolerance of the religious sort and other sundry kinds of hardline morality policing that make them feel like abominations instead of different ways of being a person. Even now, scientists are still struggling to figure out what is causing the rise in autism, but we have keyboard warriors acting like they've already figured it out and toss around the term as an epithet like yesteryear's use of the word "virgin".
Got any stats to back that up? No... of course you don't. Have you even ever met one? I'd be shocked if you had. You're a brainless idealogue.
Post edited May 01, 2018 by GreasyDogMeat
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pmcollectorboy: They kill themselves because of intolerance of the religious sort and other sundry kinds of hardline morality policing that make them feel like abominations instead of different ways of being a person.
This.
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pmcollectorboy: I can't claim to know how many transgenders are true gender dysphorics. Certainly it's possible there exists a number of people who transition for the wrong reasons. But transgenderism and infantilism are no more related than homosexuality and pedophilia.
Just one thing to point out: "Transgender" isn't a noun, so "transgenders" isn't a word, and in fact it's rude to use that word as a noun. You should use a phrase like "transgender people" instead.
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dtgreene: Just one thing to point out: "Transgender" isn't a noun, so "transgenders" isn't a word, and in fact it's rude to use that word as a noun. You should use a phrase like "transgender people" instead.
Sometimes I think you're a very dedicated troll.

Then I think you're probably serious.

And I feel deep, deep pity.
Not forcing views on people, but maybe certain things should be. Kind of like how "coercive persuasion" was the order of the day when integration was the law of the land and some people never got the memo. Thankfully we let people believe what they wish and laugh at "pray the gay away" as the joke that it is unless actual intent to cause harm is apparent like electroshock therapy, false imprisonment, "kidnapped for Jesus" or exorcisms.
In my opinion, bathrooms should either be one gender or three, with the "family room" not counted. Many other countries already have unisex bathrooms and languages with neutral pronouns.
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pmcollectorboy: I can't claim to know how many transgenders are true gender dysphorics. Certainly it's possible there exists a number of people who transition for the wrong reasons. But transgenderism and infantilism are no more related than homosexuality and pedophilia.
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dtgreene: Just one thing to point out: "Transgender" isn't a noun, so "transgenders" isn't a word, and in fact it's rude to use that word as a noun. You should use a phrase like "transgender people" instead.
I see.
Post edited May 01, 2018 by pmcollectorboy
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louitrilobite: snip
Look, you're arguing with people who argue scientific consensus is pseudo-science because they can't fathom that science may have progressed since they were children decades ago, and left their simplistic worldview behind, and hold on to their preconceptions instead of seeking the easily available information. People who readily believe, and hold onto, every horror story they hear about trans people because it aligns with their pre-existing beliefs, even if they are easily disproven.

You said you're used to it, and I bet you are, but I just wanted to say that you probably won't change their minds, and in the end, they can all walk away from this and forget everything you tried to teach them; but given that to you it's a personal matter, it might be better to save yourself the unneeded stress.
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louitrilobite: It's not an issue and it's not being forced on anyone.
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GreasyDogMeat: Get back to me in 5-10 years.

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louitrilobite: I'm glad you preach tolerance : )

I also don't think we should be doing gender reassignment on children, I live in the UK and that is not a thing, there is a long process of assessment before that happens, is there anywhere that does reassignment on children?

I think (in fact I'm pretty sure) that there are more trans kids that kill them selves than post op adults.
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GreasyDogMeat: Is this incorrect then?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4743036/800-children-young-10-puberty-blockers.html
In fairness the site looks... dodgy.

As for suicide rates...
http://thefederalist.com/2015/08/19/transgender-regret-is-real-even-if-the-media-tell-you-otherwise/

The problem with the issue is that it has become political... when things become political facts get... dodgy. I generally suspect the truth to lie somewhere in the middle.
Puberty blockers are not reassignment surgery, they merely arrest the onset of puberty and as soon as you stop taking them puberty kicks back in. Here in the UK they are used to give a child some breathing space into adulthood before they consider irreversible intervention. The daily mail is considered particularly right wing and reactionary and in search of controversy to sell papers and return to the good old day sometime in the 50s, don't take what they say on face value. : )

And the federalist! ? If you take your information (that you use to formulate you opinions) from there, we have a long way to go before we approach common ground.

I am searching for tolerance too : )

: )
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pmcollectorboy: Not forcing views on people, but maybe certain things should be.
And that is the cultural battle of our times.

Authoritarianism vs. Libertarian/Liberal.

You're on the wrong side of history, and if not the west is fucked.
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GreasyDogMeat: I never suggested there was a correlation between the two. The point was how these issues are being forced on society. It is one thing to preach tolerance... something I actually practice... believe it or not. It is another to force things on people, like surgeries on fucking children who will end up killing themselves in adulthood because their lives have been ruined by radical progressive clueless parents. And no I'm not suggesting you are one of those.
Transgender children are not pushed to have surgery; in fact, there is a lot of gatekeeping one has to get through in order to be approved for surgery. In fact, getting a child approved for gender reassignment surgery is not going to happen unless the child is near adulthood and has been on hormones for a while, and hormones aren't given before the age of puberty anyway.

If you want to complain about involuntary surgeries ruining people's lives, I suggest you look at the surgeries performed on intersex infants, or look at the case of David Reimer.

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louitrilobite: I also don't think we should be doing gender reassignment on children, I live in the UK and that is not a thing, there is a long process of assessment before that happens, is there anywhere that does reassignment on children?
This actually does happen to intersex babies; the doctor, being unable to tell whether a child is male or female from their genitals, makes a choice and surgically alters the genitals to conform to the doctor's choice. Of course, the doctor's choice is likely to be wrong half the time, and that can cause serious issues (including suicide) to the child as they grow up. (See also the case of David Reimer for another tragic story.)

I believe at least one country has banned this barbaric practice.
Post edited May 02, 2018 by dtgreene
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GreasyDogMeat:
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louitrilobite: And the federalist! ? If you take your information (that you use to formulate you opinions) from there, we have a long way to go before we approach common ground.

I am searching for tolerance too : )

: )
It could be worse. He could be quoting InfoWars. :P

Anyway, what DaCosta said.
He's not really fond of me but that won't stop me from admiring his intellect and his eloquence, so take his advice on this, especially as it pertains to this place.

As for GreasyDogMeat, after today he's probably due for a warning at the very least.
Post edited May 02, 2018 by tinyE
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louitrilobite: snip
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DaCostaBR: Look, you're arguing with people who argue scientific consensus is pseudo-science because they can't fathom that science may have progressed since they were children decades ago, and left their simplistic worldview behind, and hold on to their preconceptions instead of seeking the easily available information. People who readily believe, and hold onto, every horror story they hear about trans people because it aligns with their pre-existing beliefs, even if they are easily disproven.

You said you're used to it, and I bet you are, but I just wanted to say that you probably won't change their minds, and in the end, they can all walk away from this and forget everything you tried to teach them; but given that to you it's a personal matter, it might be better to save yourself the unneeded stress.
No Stress : )

But thank you.

If I can just make one person begin to understand or just begin to think then everything id good, if not then I have lost nothing : )
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louitrilobite: Puberty blockers are not reassignment surgery, they merely arrest the onset of puberty and as soon as you stop taking them puberty kicks back in. Here in the UK they are used to give a child some breathing space into adulthood before they consider irreversible intervention. The daily mail is considered particularly right wing and reactionary and in search of controversy to sell papers and return to the good old day sometime in the 50s, don't take what they say on face value. : )
Fair enough.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-38218115

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louitrilobite: And the federalist! ? If you take your information (that you use to formulate you opinions) from there, we have a long way to go before we approach common ground.

I am searching for tolerance too : )

: )
Feel free to post information that isn't politicized.